Craft & Raw Materials

[SurvivorX]

My character has Craft (Armorsmithing) and wants to make a set of full-plate armor using raw materials he's scrounging as we go through a dungeon crawl, and we come across ~60 lb of raw iron ingots in an abandoned trade wagon.

Theoretically, that's more than enough, by weight, to complete the armor, even taking into account some wasted material.

However, the Craft skill says you need to spend half the item's cost (converted to SP) in raw materials as you work on it. The 60 lb of iron I found is technically only 60 sp - and I'll need 7500 sp to complete the armor.

I don't think the process of forging the iron ingots into plating for the armor would count for the additional cost of the "raw materials" - that would be part of the Craft check and not the raw materials, right?

So obviously I don't need 3.75 TONS of material to complete a set of 50-lb armor. That would be preposterous. Does anyone have any ideas how this situation would work?

[Flickerdart]

Iron isn't the only raw material involved in making full plate, or for that matter even the steel you need to do it.

[Diarmuid]

You're not just using raw iron in the crafting. You've got to have the leather for the straps, make all the clasps for said straps, you've got to make all the rivets, have padding for under the armor, etc.

There's lots of "little things" that are accounted for in that 7500sp of material other than the raw metal that's going to be the majority of the item.

Then again, assume you're going to need fuel for the fire and you're probably likely to wear out a tool or two that will need to be replaced.

Think about it this way, if you were in a city...you would know what supplies you needed to craft the item due to your expertise in the Craft skill and you would spend 500gp (it's 1/3 the cost in raw materials, not 1/2 as you had in your post) to buy all the stuff.

Out of curiosity, where did you get the figures for the cost of the iron?

[Big Fau]

Where are you seeing that it takes 1/2 the item's cost? Last I checked it was always 1/3 the item's GP value.


Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.

The only mention of "half" is if you fail the check or manage to do exceptionally well on the result. So you only need iron worth 500gp to actually start crafting (which is still a lot of iron).

And yes, crafting the raw iron into something worth more (specifically MWK Iron Ingots, which could count as a masterwork tool for the Craft skill) would reduce the amount of iron needed. The Craft skill is stupid like that.

[SurvivorX]

You're not just using raw iron in the crafting. You've got to have the leather for the straps, make all the clasps for said straps, you've got to make all the rivets, have padding for under the armor, etc.

There's lots of "little things" that are accounted for in that 7500sp of material other than the raw metal that's going to be the majority of the item.

Then again, assume you're going to need fuel for the fire and you're probably likely to wear out a tool or two that will need to be replaced.

OK, but the same fundamental problem applies. If I loot 2 sets of leather armor, and disassemble & part those out for those additional supplies, that's still only supplying 200 more sp of raw materials - IF i manage to reuse 100% of the armor.

Another full set of artisan tools is only 50 sp, and firewood is measured in COPPER pieces. So, that cost is a nearly-negligible proportion of the raw-materials cost.

The end result being, even though I reasonably have all the materials I need to get the job done, I've still got ~300 sp of raw materials... but I need 5,000.


Out of curiosity, where did you get the figures for the cost of the iron?

The SRD lists iron as having a market value of 1 sp per pound.

Big Fau & Diarmud - you're right, it's 1/3. My mistake.

[Diarmuid]

Unfortunately I think you're running into the "injecting too much realism into the system".

Firewood is cheap as dirt...if you're heating your house. Maybe you need coal (though I couldnt find a cost for coal), or maybe the cost in wood is a lot higher because you're keeping a high temp fire going for a long time. Maybe the process of crafting the armor involves a lot of "waste" which needs to be accounted for in lots of extra material. Whatever it is, unless your DM gives you an itemized list of ingredients for making the armor with costs and amounts I dont think you're going to find a way to make this all line up nice and pretty.

Caltrops weigh 2lbs, are made of iron, but cost 1g.

So they cost 3sp, 3cp to craft and the raw material involved would cost 2sp at market value.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another question is can you use craft to increase the value of the materials you use to craft.

Say you have iron. Can you use craft to turn that base iron into steel, tripling it's value, then craft that steel into plate? This would trade time for reduced cost.

I always thought that craft should have a time factor for the cost of the base materials you start with. One should get a price break for starting with the rawest of materials, and get a time break for starting with materials that are basically the final steps. In essence crafting platemail from iron ingots, raw hides, and thread VS crafting it from pre-cut blanks, straps that already have fittings, and quilted padding already made.

[Diarmuid]

FES - Anything along that vain would require DM help/approval. There's certainly nothing in the rules to account for anything like that.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, it takes 100 gp of materials to make 300gp worth of armor.

Say you only have 33gp of material. You could MAKE 100gp of value using 33gp of stuff, then use that 100gp worth of material to make the 300gp armor. By the rules, this should be possible.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

As Flickerdart pointed out in the first response; you need steel not iron. and the cost of steel represent 1/3 iron and other materials and 2/3 the labor of a smelter.