Daggerspell Mage help?

[Sajiri]

After hearing other's favourite classes for fluff, I decided for fun I wanted to make a character out of my old Baldur's Gate character and update her to more recent rules for fun, and hopefully if we ever do a Forgotten Realms game I can use her (the DM always hated FR, until I let him read though my books for it, he's been converted :smallamused:).

Daggerspell Mage is a prc I've always been interested in, but I'm not sure the best way to build one. Here (http://dndtools.eu/classes/daggerspell-mage/) it is for reference.

I have no restrictions on books obviously since this isn't for any planned game, but no homebrew. Im sure for the arcane side wizard would be the best bet, but I was thinking sorcerer (or some other spontaneous caster) for the flavour.

I imagine if I ever got to use this, it would be pathfinder (I think DM has just dropped 3.5 for it entirely now) but we always allow 3.5 content.

Edit: Or I could also use this as an NPC in the Forgotten Realms game based loosely off Baldur's Gate I've been wanting to run to let the DM play sometime

[Fax Celestis]

Spellthief is an interesting entry, particularly if you can use the Trickster Spellthief ACF for entry. Duskblade is also a great entry.

Using PF, the best non-big-four entry I can think of would actually be Magus.

[Sajiri]

I kind of want to avoid magus and duskblade. I actually thought those classes would suit this character best, but I've got a magus (who was originally a duskblade before we converted to PF) in a game thats on hold right now.

[Fax Celestis]

Warmage also might be a cool entry. Yes, yes, blasting sucks, omgwtfspqrbbqtla. Whatever. Invocation of the Knife with Warmage means you get to get around some resistances by blowing people up with knives. Badass.

The Warmage chassis by itself isn't bad, either, it's mostly just their spell list that sucks. Go through Ultimate Magic and some other sources and see if your DM will let you swap in some spells for others. Note: your DM may be more pliable on this if you theme to a particular element rather than "I want a bucket of spells". A Cold Warmage into Daggerspell Mage with Invocation of the Knife is pretty awesome in and of itself: all your spells deal half cold, half slashing because of shards of ice.

[Sajiri]

Warmage might be interesting.

I was looking into spellthief and unseen seer as well in place of rogue for the sneak attack pre-req. It also gives access to master spellthief feat which I think would allow armored casting as well as stacking with the other casting class to advance spell stealing. Although I'm unsure if that's a good idea?

I know spellthief was suggested first but just want to make sure Im thinking of it in the right way.

[Fax Celestis]

The problem is that Spellthief's natural casting is not very good for what Daggerspell Mage is good at. Plus Spellthief is only a halfcaster. This, by the by, might change dependent upon your DM's ruling on how UMD'd spells interact with Daggerspell Mage's class features. Then you could just kit yourself like this (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=5).

[ScrambledBrains]

Speaking of Warmage(If you decide to go that route), here's a particular homebrew fix of it you might want to look into. I can't speak for the class itself, but I'd bet every sourcebook I own that the homebrewer himself is one of the top ten best on all GITP. :smallsmile:

Here you go! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131346)

[Sajiri]

The problem is that Spellthief's natural casting is not very good for what Daggerspell Mage is good at. Plus Spellthief is only a halfcaster. This, by the by, might change dependent upon your DM's ruling on how UMD'd spells interact with Daggerspell Mage's class features. Then you could just kit yourself like this (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=5).

Well the way I was thinking was spellthief for 1-2 lvls in place of rogue, rather than using it for it's casting, and still take something else like sorc or warmage and have daggerspell/unseen seer advance the casting from that

[Fouredged Sword]

I would suggest the following

Spellthief 1 / duskblade 4 / dagger spell mage 3 / chameleon 10 / abjurant champion 2

This gets you some interesting stuff. You can cast a spell into your dagger like shocking grasp, then follow up with a standard action strike carrying another shocking grasp. Two spells in one attack.

Then chameleon adds all spells 1-6th level, including gems like haste as a 1st level spell. The spell that adds sneak attack based on CL, and hunter's mercy (lead with truestrike).

Then abjurant champion offers a neat close with swift abjuration and slightly better defensive spells.

[Roguenewb]

Sorcerer 5/Spelltheif 1/Daggerspell mage 10/Unseen Seer 4

Nice simple build. Technically, Wizard is better, but with the limited arcane strike ability and the feat arcane strike, and your other statements, I think you'll like sorcerer better. Take some good spell, using general sorcerer selection criteria, should do well. At level 20 you have 6d6 sneak attack, 18CL, enough for 9ths. Seems good. Have fun.

[Sajiri]

Sorcerer 5/Spelltheif 1/Daggerspell mage 10/Unseen Seer 4

Nice simple build. Technically, Wizard is better, but with the limited arcane strike ability and the feat arcane strike, and your other statements, I think you'll like sorcerer better. Take some good spell, using general sorcerer selection criteria, should do well. At level 20 you have 6d6 sneak attack, 18CL, enough for 9ths. Seems good. Have fun.

I think this is pretty much what I was thinking of. The build above seems interesting too but on thinking of it, the more 3.5 classes I add in the more awkward it might be IF it were pathfinder, too much converting. That is if I get to play with it in a game someday, I dont think the DM would like me doing too much. If it were my own game and I use it as an npc that could be a different matter

Edit: Any decent races other than human now that I think of it? In BG this character was an elf, although storywise I imagined she was more like PF sorcerers with a draconic bloodline.

I'm not against human or elf, but just wondering if there's anything else worthwhile out there.

[Roguenewb]

Well, whisper gnome is good and broken for LA 0. Lesser Aasimar is pretty sweet with the +2 CHA for the same LA. I like Warforged Scout, but you'll take a -2 to CHA so avoid saves.

EDIT: Unseen Seer can be traded out for Arcane Trickster, and you'll still get full CL and SA progression, but you miss out on some cool abilities. Does PF have arcane trickster?

[Sajiri]

Well, whisper gnome is good and broken for LA 0. Lesser Aasimar is pretty sweet with the +2 CHA for the same LA. I like Warforged Scout, but you'll take a -2 to CHA so avoid saves.

EDIT: Unseen Seer can be traded out for Arcane Trickster, and you'll still get full CL and SA progression, but you miss out on some cool abilities. Does PF have arcane trickster?

It does have Arcane trickster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/arcane-trickster), I think Im kinda taken by Unseen Seer, not sure why.

I dont think Gnome or warforged suits this character, should have said Im still trying to keep it kiiind of similar to my old Baldur's Gate one. Lesser Aasimar..that's interesting considering the parentage of the character in the game :smallbiggrin:

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, you get light armor prof and ignore ASF in light armor.

I may suggest, as a crazy idea, warforged.

Yes you take a cha penelty,

But you have UMD as a class skill and get Wand Bonding as a feat option. You can then use wands to expand your spells known, and even take wand modulation as a spell known to have access to every 1-3rd level spell in the game. All this from a level 4 wand with one charge left.

Warforged scout seems the way to do this.

[Sajiri]

Well, you get light armor prof and ignore ASF in light armor.

I may suggest, as a crazy idea, warforged.

Yes you take a cha penelty,

But you have UMD as a class skill and get Wand Bonding as a feat option. You can then use wands to expand your spells known, and even take wand modulation as a spell known to have access to every 1-3rd level spell in the game. All this from a level 4 wand with one charge left.

Warforged scout seems the way to do this.

Like I said already, warforged doesnt really suit this character. It sounds insteresting but this character is mainly rebuilding/updating an old Baldur's Gate character, and I there was nothing even remotely close to warforged in there. I was thinking either human, elf, or some other human-ish or fey-like race

[Fax Celestis]

Half-fey human are always fun, though it's a +2 LA. So, so worth it though. Charm person at-will, scaling HD-based SLAs, and a 60' fly speed that comes with butterfly wings.

[Sajiri]

Half-fey sounds interesting. I'm not too worried with LA right now, (I just ignore it lol) and we usually only have small groups so characters tend to get some free bonuses thrown at them (I got to drop the LA on my gloaming character which I think was also +2).

If I ever get to actually use the character in someone else's campaign I'll worry about LA then