Boosting Ability Scores in e6

[Yogibear41]

out side of the e6 special ability booster feats(take prereq feat then feat that gives +2 bonus) is their anyway to permanently increase ability scores by any amount?


Assuming one uses the caster level requirement rules for magic item creation, such that things like gloves of dexterity cannot be created(I know their is a lot of debate on this so I don't want to go there lol :smallsmile:)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

According to the caster level requirement rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel) you only need a high enough caster level to meet an item's prerequisites, which for Gloves of Dex would be 3rd (minimum for both Craft Wondrous Item and Cat's Grace, the two of which are the entirety of its prerequisites). A magic item's default caster level when discovered as loot is not one of its prerequisites, and has not been since the errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) NINE YEARS AGO.

[Turion]

According to the caster level requirement rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItem. s/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel) you only need a high enough caster level to meet an item's prerequisites, which for Gloves of Dex would be 3rd (minimum for both Craft Wondrous Item and Cat's Grace, the two of which are the entirety of its prerequisites). A magic item's default caster level when discovered as loot is not one of its prerequisites, and has not been since the errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) NINE YEARS AGO.

While this is true, the e6 rules pdf does say to use listed item CLs as hard requirements I have heard of SMs going either way with crafting, but in e6 this is the default.
That noted, artificers have an effective +2 CL for the purposes of crafting prerequisites. A 6th level artificer should be able to craft any +2 stat booster easily.

[SiuiS]

According to the caster level requirement rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel) you only need a high enough caster level to meet an item's prerequisites, which for Gloves of Dex would be 3rd (minimum for both Craft Wondrous Item and Cat's Grace, the two of which are the entirety of its prerequisites). A magic item's default caster level when discovered as loot is not one of its prerequisites, and has not been since the errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) NINE YEARS AGO.

E6 makes an exception.


While this is true, the e6 rules pdf does say to use listed item CLs as hard requirements I have heard of SMs going either way with crafting, but in e6 this is the default.
That noted, artificers have an effective +2 CL for the purposes of crafting prerequisites. A 6th level artificer should be able to craft any +2 stat booster easily.

Soul forger, a dwarven incarnum prestige class, gets 3x it's level as CL for item creation. Retraining can get you a dwarven soul forger 5, capping e6 crafting at 15th level.

[Yogibear41]

I was mainly looking for non-item related boosts but thanks.

Permanent spells, feats, rituals, etc.

doesn't have to be huge even a +1 would be beneficial

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

While this is true, the e6 rules pdf does say to use listed item CLs as hard requirements I have heard of SMs going either way with crafting, but in e6 this is the default.
That noted, artificers have an effective +2 CL for the purposes of crafting prerequisites. A 6th level artificer should be able to craft any +2 stat booster easily.


E6 makes an exception.

Something written and revised in ignorance of the current game rules is not an exception, it's a mistake.

[Zonugal]

If you have enough money Silthilar grafts can be a possibility.

Silthilar Bones ($110,000 gp) for a +2 to Constitution.
Silthilar Muscles ($110,000 gp) for a +2 to Strength.
Silthilar Tendons ($110,000 gp) for a +2 to Dexterity.

[137beth]

Something written and revised in ignorance of the current game rules is not an exception, it's a mistake.

Nope, it's a house rule. You can keep playing however you want, though.
Besides, that errata no longer applies: the reprinted "premium" books were suppose to include errata, but didn't, so that means that WotC undid their own errata, and the original printing is now correct.

@OP: An articifer can craft items as Level+2, so a 6th level articifer could create CL 8 items like gloves of dexterity.

[ArcturusV]

Well, the only other option that pops into my mind is Evil. If you use a Sacrifice, and get a result of 50 on your Religion check for the sacrifice, you can get a Wish spell (Only once). So there's another +1 you can get. You can also get Planar Ally with a requirement that they are evil outsiders. I'm sure there's one that has Wish as an SLA you could do. But off the top of my head I can't remember.

If you managed in an E6 world to use all the special modifiers (Perfect scenario), you end up with a +22 to your check. +9 skill ranks, possibly some feat bonuses, aid, and stat bonuses, and that 50 point result isn't exactly out of reach.

But it'd require you to be Evil. And invested in Knowledge (Religion).

[Turion]

Nope, it's a house rule. You can keep playing however you want, though.

To expand on this:

Q: Can you make high-level items as a low-level caster in E6? A: No, caster level requirements for magic items are treated as hard requirements.

The stated text is prescriptive for e6, not intended to be descriptive of core rules. It sorta makes sense, too; the idea is to keep the game feeling gritty. The CL cap ensures that nobody is running around with +6 stat boosters on, when cr 10 critters are supposed to be nightmarishly hard. It's just in the corner cases like universal solvent that it breaks down.

Point being though: when someone asks for e6 advice, it's usually safe to assume this rule is in play unless otherwise noted.

[JaronK]

Well, the only other option that pops into my mind is Evil. If you use a Sacrifice, and get a result of 50 on your Religion check for the sacrifice, you can get a Wish spell (Only once). So there's another +1 you can get. You can also get Planar Ally with a requirement that they are evil outsiders. I'm sure there's one that has Wish as an SLA you could do. But off the top of my head I can't remember.

Efreetis have Wish as an SLA. It's not easy to contain one at level 6 though, so I'd avoid that route.

Also, for item crafting, there are many ways to boost CL a bit even in E6. Artificers, Dragonwrought Kobolds, and others like them can pull it off. So it's still possible to craft these things (though in E6 I tend to say that mortals simply can't craft items above CL 6, as going above that is epic much like 4th level spells).

JaronK

[137beth]

Point being though: when someone asks for e6 advice, it's usually safe to assume this rule is in play unless otherwise noted.

Especially if it is explicitly noted that the rule is in place:smalltongue:

I'm curious, though: articifer specifically allows you to craft at level+2. If any 6th level articifers exist in the world, they could make CL 8 items, and might sell them to merchants or PCs. So I'm wondering, OP (or anyone else who runs e6 games), how do you handle that? Do you just not allow CL 7+ items, regardless of what CL-boosting tricks the players use?
EDIT: sort of ninja'd by JaronK...yea, that is a good house rule.

[ArcturusV]

I dunno if you'd necessarily need to contain it though. The sacrifice result say "Will serve you for 1 hour per HD of the victim". Which may mean you still need to bargain with them. Or could mean that the sacrifice itself was already the payment for it. After all, it's a reward for your sacrifice. I suppose it's up to the individual DM call. I tended to view it as your sacrifice was already the payment so it'd do anything that wasn't suicidal like.

[Gnorman]

One rule I use in E6 games is to have the CL for ability booster items, rather than a flat 8, be three times the enhancement bonus of the item in question (most items with variable bonuses follow this pattern anyway). So a 6th level caster could make Gloves of Dexterity +2, but an Artificer couldn't make the +6 version. The +2 items are not terribly game-breaking in E6.

[Lonely Tylenol]

You could also just make [Wondrous Item] of [Animal Buff Spell], which, at CL3, would cost 24,000gp at market value (and half that to make), but would net you a +4 bonus (or +6 if you, as the creator, have the Ability Enhancer feat, and your DM is okay with this use).

[Talya]

To expand on this:


Q: Can you make high-level items as a low-level caster in E6? A: No, caster level requirements for magic items are treated as hard requirements.


By RAW, this changes nothing. Item caster level is not a caster level requirement. Some item creation does have a caster level requirement -- enhancement bonuses, for instance. The ability to cast a particular spell is another one. But the CL17 on a lesser metamagic rod, for example, is not a "caster level requirement." It has absolutely no listed "caster level requirements." Therefore there is nothing to treat as a "hard requirement." Similarly, while +2/+4/+6 ability modifying items have an item caster level of 8, they have absolutely no "Caster Level Requirements" when making them. So there are no "Caster Level Requirements" to treat as "hard requirements."