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The Demented One
2006-12-17, 10:53 PM
Dashing Swordsman

There is more to combat than brute strength. For some, their sharpest blade is their tongue. These Dashing Swordsman are renowned for their quick swordplay and quicker wits. For the most part, these swordsmen are unable to rest in any one place–instead, they roam the world in search of adventure and glory.

d8 HD

Requirements
To qualify to become a Dashing Swordsman, you must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any Non-Lawful
BAB: +6
Feats: Dodge, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Finesse
Skills: Bluff 9 ranks, Tumble 9 ranks, Perform (Comedy) 4 ranks

The Dashing Swordsman's class skills are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+0|+2|+0|Bonus Feat, Dashing Strike
2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0|Quip
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1|Dramatic Entrance, Fast Like A Freak
4th|+4|+1|+4|+1|Quip
5th|+5|+1|+4|+1|Too Pretty To Die
6th|+6|+2|+5|+2|Quip
7th|+7|+2|+5|+2|Greater Dashing Strike
8th|+8|+2|+6|+2|Quip, Surprising Entrance
9th|+9|+3|+6|+3|Rapier Wit
10th|+10|+3|+7|+3|Better Lucky Than Skilled, Quip
[/table]

Class Features
All the following are class features of the Dashing Swordsman prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
You gain proficiency with the rapier, sap, short sword, and whip. You gain proficiency with all light armor.

Bonus Feat (Ex)
At 1st level, you gain Combat Expertise as a bonus feat, even if you don't already meet the prerequisites for it. If you already have that feat, you may instead gain any feat which has Combat Expertise for a prerequisite as a bonus feat.

Dashing Strike (Ex)
You gain the ability to strike your foe with your sheer force of personality. Whenever you hit a foe with a weapon to which you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat, you may make a witty pun or spout a catch-phrase. You must be able to speak in order to do so, but your foe need not be able to hear nor understand you. If you do, then you add your Cha modifier, rather than your Str modifier, to the damage roll.

Quip (Ex or Su)
At 2nd level, and each subsequent even level, you learn a quip. Whenever you use your dashing strike ability, you may choose to use a single one of your quips along with it. You may use each quip only once during an encounter. You may use each quip a total number of times per day equal to your Cha modifier. Some quips have minimum class level requirements you must meet before you can learn them. The quips you may learn are as follows:

“Cat Got Your Tongue?” (Su)
When you use the “cat got your tongue?” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Will save, DC 10 + your class level + your Cha modifier, or be silenced, as the spell, with caster level equal to your class level. The silence affects only the enemy you strike–it does not emanate from him. The effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to your class level. You must be at least a 4th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.

“Don’t Let Your Guard Down!” (Ex)
When you use the “don’t let your guard down!” quip, you attack ignores any damage reduction the enemy struck might have. You must be at least a 4th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.

“Gotcha!” (Ex)
When you use the “gotcha!” quip, you deal an additional amount of damage equal to half the number of ranks you have in Perform (Comedy).

“I’ll Be Gentle!” (Ex)
When you use the “I’ll be gentle!” quip, you attack deals only subdual damage. However, you deal an additional 1d8 points of damage.

”Just Quit!” (Ex)
When you use the “just quit!” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Will save, DC 10 plus your class level plus your Charisma modifier, or take a -3 penalty on all attack rolls it makes against you. This penalty increases by one for every two class levels beyond 6th you have. This lasts for a number of rounds equal to half your class level. You must be at least a 6th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.

“Looks Like That Hurt!” (Ex)
When you use the “looks like that hurt!” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Fortitude save, DC 10 + your class level + your Cha modifier, or be stunned for 1 round. You must be at least a 6th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.

“Ooh, Burn!” (Su)
When you use the “ooh, burn!” quip, your attack deals an additional 1d6 points of fire damage.

“Watch Your Feet!” (Ex)
When you use the “watch your feet!” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Reflex save, DC 10 + your character level + your Cha modifier, or fall prone.

“You Fail!” (Su)
When you use the “you fail!” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Will save, DC 10 plus your class level plus your Charisma modifier, or take 1d6 points of Charisma damage. Even if he successfully saves, he still takes 1 point of Charisma damage. You must be at least a 6th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.

"You'll Feel That One!" (Ex)
You may only use the "you'll feel that one!" quip when you successfully score a critical hit. You gain a luck bonus on the roll to confirm the critical hit equal to your Charisma modifier.

Dramatic Entrance (Ex)
At 3rd level, you leap into action just in the nick of time, catching the perfect moment for maximum dramatic effect. Whenever you make a particularly striking entrance, as determined by the DM, you gain a number of benefits. You do not take any damage from hazards of the entrance, such as breaking through windows or leaping through flames. Any enemies that see you make the entrance must make a Will save, with a DC equal to 10 + your class level + your Charisma modifier, or be dazzled for 1 round.

Fast Like A Freak (Ex)
At 3rd level, when wielding a melee weapon that you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat with, you may feint within it in combat as a swift action.

Too Pretty To Die (Su)
At 5th level, you can dodge unavoidable blows through sheer force of will and luck. As an immediate action, you may grant yourself a luck bonus to AC equal to your Cha modifier until the beginning of your next round. You may only use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Cha modifier.

Greater Dashing Strike (Ex)
At 7th level, whenever you attack a foe with a weapon to which you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat, you may make a witty pun or spout a catch-phrase. If you do, then you add your Cha modifier, rather than your Str or Dex modifier, to the attack roll.

Surprising Entrance (Ex)
At 8th level, you can catch your foes off guard if you make a dramatic entrance. If you make a dramatic entrance immediately before the start of combat, you receive a +5 morale bonus to your Initiative check and may act during the surprise round, if there is one, even if you normally could not.

Rapier Wit (Ex)
At 9th level, the critical threat range of any melee weapon to that you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat to is doubled when you wield it. This does not stack with other effects, such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat, that improve a weapon’s critical threat range.

Better Lucky Than Skilled (Su)
At 10th level, Fate bestows her favors upon you. Once per day, at the beginning of an encounter, you may choose to draw upon supernatural luck. For the duration of the encounter, whenever you make an attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw, you may roll two dice, and choose which die roll to use. However, after using this ability, you become drained. You are exhausted, and cannot use any of the spell-like or supernatural class features of the Dashing Swordsman class until you have had eight hours of rest.

Credit to the Giant for the idea.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2006-12-17, 11:10 PM
Where would the world be without you, Demented One?

The Demented One
2006-12-17, 11:16 PM
Where would the world be without you, Demented One?
Slightly saner.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2006-12-17, 11:17 PM
Slightly saner.
And who would want that?

No one, that's who.

Demented
2006-12-17, 11:34 PM
About time. =P

Just got to mention this, though...

Combat Expertise requires 13 int, which a certain webcomic character almost certainly doesn't have.

Combat Finesse, seeing as it replaces your strength bonus with your dexterity bonus, would be useless to another certain webcomic character who has 10 STR and 10 DEX, though that's not to say that one couldn't take the feat anyway.

The Demented One
2006-12-18, 12:04 AM
About time. =P
Combat Expertise requires 13 int, which a certain webcomic character almost certainly doesn't have.

Bah! Combat Expertise opens the door to nifty swashbucklery things like Improved Disarm and Improved Feint, so Elan had better smarten up. Anyway, I personally think it's he's lacking in Wis more than his Int.

Yakk
2006-12-18, 12:14 AM
Requirements:
Feats: Skill Focus (Bluff, Tumble, or Perform(Comedy))
Cha of 14

...

Get rid of the Fort high save.

...

Some other ability ideas:
Bonus damage dice on a crit (+1d6 at L 2, 4, 6, 8, 10)
Cha Bonus to confirm criticals.

...

I dislike the "You can use all Quip abilities X times". It discourages players from using "weaker" Quip abilities. Or is that not intended?

...

I'd actually give the class the ability to take Combat Expertise somehow, even if the character doesn't have the int. Heck:

Quick Witted:
The Dashing Swordsman character may substitute Charisma for Dex and Int prerequisites of feats.

The Demented One
2006-12-18, 12:24 AM
Requirements:
Feats: Skill Focus (Bluff, Tumble, or Perform(Comedy))
Cha of 14

That strikes me as a bit odd. For one, making a high-skill point character take Skill Focus is just plain cruel. Also, having an ability score-based prerequisite just strikes me as a bit odd. The only class I know of that has one is the Dwarven Defender


Get rid of the Fort high save.



Bonus damage dice on a crit (+1d6 at L 2, 4, 6, 8, 10)
Cha Bonus to confirm criticals.

Might work these in as quips.


I dislike the "You can use all Quip abilities X times". It discourages players from using "weaker" Quip abilities. Or is that not intended?
The idea is that they start off using the weaker ones, and move on to the strong ones as they gain levels. I'd like to give them a way to use weaker quips more often, but that could require a fair deal of paperwork.


I'd actually give the class the ability to take Combat Expertise somehow, even if the character doesn't have the int.
Maybe a bonus feat?

Yakk
2006-12-18, 12:44 AM
"Can use each Quip the character posseses 1/combat. In addition, the Dashing Swordsman can reuse a quip up to the Charisma Modifier times/day."

This encourages wide use of different Quips. :)


That strikes me as a bit odd. For one, making a high-skill point character take Skill Focus is just plain cruel. Also, having an ability score-based prerequisite just strikes me as a bit odd. The only class I know of that has one is the Dwarven Defender

And the stat requirement is pretty redundant -- who would be a Dashing Swordsman without high Cha?

But the skill focus thing makes sense. This is intended for low-dex low-int low-strength high-cha characters who want to be able to fight. Requiring Dex based feats defeats the inspiration of the prestigue class.

Your classneeds 13 int and 13 dex. The two Dashing Swordsmen we are basing the class off -- one has average dex, the other has below-average int!

That just won't do.

...

How about a 3 level cycle?

L 1: Ability
L 2: Bonus Feat from a list
L 3: 1 Quip, +1d6 crit damage
L 4: Ability
L 5: Bonus Feat from a list
L 6: 2 Quips, +2d6 crit damage
L 7: Ability
L 8: Bonus feat from a list
L 9: 3 Quips, +3d6 crit damage
L 10: Ability

Bonus feat list:
Dodge, Mobility, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus, Two-weapon fighting, Greater two-weapon fighting, Two-weapon defence, Combat Expertise, Blind-Fight, Spring Attack, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Improved Criticals

The Dashing Swordsman may subsitute Cha for Int or Dex as a prerequisite for any feat on the bonus feat list.

Crit damage:
When using any weapon that can have Weapon Finess applied and in Light Armor, the Dashing Swordsman does extra damage on critical hits.

Quips:
Any given Quip can be used once per combat. In addition, the Dashing Swordsman may repeat a Quip in a fight a number of times equal to her charisma modifier per day.

List of Quips.

...

This version has 3 bonus feats, 3 quips, +3d6 damage on crits (which encourages using Rapiers!), and 4 Dashing Swordsman abilities.

The bonus damage on crits is actually pretty weak -- it only applies on about 30% of hits. So that's an average of +3 damage per hit -- pretty small.

Of course, practically, we should really wait and see what the OOTS dashing swordsman can do. :)

The Demented One
2006-12-18, 12:49 AM
"Can use each Quip the character posseses 1/combat. In addition, the Dashing Swordsman can reuse a quip up to the Charisma Modifier times/day."

This encourages wide use of different Quips. :)
Brilliant. I'll add this in, and consider your other suggestions once I wake up tomorrow.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2006-12-18, 03:24 AM
Wait, what about skills?

Fizban
2006-12-18, 03:36 AM
I have to say, 2d6 cha damage is massive. It'll put down most animals (admittedly not much of at challenge by that level), maybe require the enemy to be intellegent? (as requiring them to understand you would severly weaken the other abilities). I like the idea of letting him substitute cha in place of int and dex prereqs.

Yakk
2006-12-18, 09:38 AM
Brilliant. I'll add this in, and consider your other suggestions once I wake up tomorrow.

I worded it not quite perfectly. The intended idea is you get a free use of each Quip once per combat.

Then, in addition, you have (cha bonus) charges of Quip you can use to reuse quips in combat. (the more charisma, the better you can pull off the repeating of tired lines, and still sound sharp...)

Or just restrict it to one use of each quip per combat, and total quip usage of charisma.

...

Going further down the rabbit hole, and stealing ideas from Iron Heros:
Dashing Token: You can have at most your Charisma Bonus in dashing tokens at any one time.

Your base Dashing Token amount is your Dashing Swordsman level/2, rounded down. If you have fewer Dashing Tokens than this, you can regain one as a Swift action by making an amusing remark. In general, it is assumed you will have this many tokens at the beginning of a combat.

When you burn Dashing Tokens, if the burn roll is greater than your current number of tokens, you lose all of your tokens and the effect fails.

Every minute (10 rounds) that you have more dashing tokens than your Class level/2 rounded down, you lose 1 Dashing Token.

Dashing Strike:
Make a witty pun or catch-phrase when you attack. You can replace your Strength bonus to damage with your Charisma bonus.
If you have a Strength Penalty, simply add the two quantities. Gain 1 Dashing Token whenever you hit an enemy.

Dashing Critical:
Whenever the Dashing Swordsman gets a critical hit, she gains 1d6 Dashing Tokens.

At L 2, your Critical hits do an extra 1d6 damage. This bonus increases at L 4, 6, 8 and 10 to 2d6 to 5d6 respectively.

Dashing Entrance:
If you make a dashing entrance (DM's call), roll the appropriate skill. For every 5 DC you beat, gain 1 Dashing Token and +1 to initiative on your first round.

Skills that can be used to make a Dashing Entrance include Tumble, Disguise, Bluff or anything else that seems Dashing.

It is possible to have a Dashing Entrance while surprised -- for example, swinging a rope into a room full of unexpected ambushers.

Dashing Parry: Full round action. Burn 1 Dashing Token.

Roll d20 + BaB + Cha modifier + To-hit enhancement bonus
This becomes your AC for the round. You cannot use Dashing Parry two rounds in a row.

If you are missed in melee combat while executing a Dashing Parry, you gain 1 Dashing Token.

The Dashing Swordsman may move up to her base move while executing a Dashing Parry.

Dashing Quip:
Burn 1d6 Dashing Tokens to use a Quip. Add one to the cost of using a Quip for every time you have used it previously in combat.
You can only use a given Quip once in a combat.

Insert quips here, and what levels you gain them.

Dashing Riptose:
Burn 1d6 Dashing Tokens to gain an attack of opportunity against someone who missed you. You can only do this once per attacker per round, and each use consumes an AoO.

Dashing Defence:
When flat footed, the Dashing Swordsman gets to replace her Dex bonus to AC with a Cha bonus to AC. This uses 1 Dashing Token.

Dashing Swing:
Burn 1d6 Dashing Token. A Dashing Swordsman may move in an unconventional way. Make a Tumble Check against DC of (# of feet you want to move). On success, the Dashing Swordsman moves that distance, gains a Dashing Charisma bonus to hit and AC, and may make one attack against any target along the path of movement. The Dashing Swordsman does not create AoO from a Dashing Swing.

The Dashing Swing need not require swinging from something -- but it does require a cinematically plausible move. Swinging, running along a wall, and sliding down bannisters are all appropriate.

beholder
2006-12-18, 11:40 AM
i love the firelfy references.
i think there should onnly be one use of a quip in combat. like you couldnt say "ooh burn" twice or whatever
can we add more quips?

Lord Zentei
2006-12-18, 12:09 PM
I have to say, 2d6 cha damage is massive. It'll put down most animals (admittedly not much of at challenge by that level), maybe require the enemy to be intellegent? (as requiring them to understand you would severly weaken the other abilities). I like the idea of letting him substitute cha in place of int and dex prereqs.

I agree that the "you fail" quip is too powerful. The "just quit" quip is rather excessive too IMHO - particularly since it has such a long duration. Moreover, neither of these two quips allow a saving throw, unlike some of the others.

You might want to place a limitation that these effects do not stack, in case there is more than one Dashing Swordsman in the party. Another possible game balance limitation might be to require the player to select the quip before the attack roll is made, to allow for failure (though that is arguably not 100% characterful :smallwink:).

Otherwise, nice. The HD, BAB, weapons, armour and saves as well as the overall feel are just right.

Learnedguy
2006-12-18, 12:31 PM
I liked the feel of this class^^
It's all loosy-goosy.

weenie
2006-12-18, 03:21 PM
I must admit i haven't gone trough the whole thread, but this prestige class seems way overpowered to me. The too pretty to die, steel storm and quip(at least some of them) class abilities are just too strong. The "you fail" quip is for example a quick way to disable a barbarian or sorcerer. And some of the others are way too strong too. And i'd limit the quips to 1use/day of each.

PhoenixRising
2006-12-18, 03:32 PM
A friend of mine and I sat down and did our version of the Dashing Swordsman. It was pretty much the same, with differences occurring in the abilities:

Quip:
A character makes a witty remark, not by making a role, replacing STR with CHA for all attacks using a rapier or similar weapon.

Irresistable:
A Dashing Swordsman is lucky to leave a tavern unmolested. While not in combat, may make eligible partners swoon (paralyzed for one round) with a wink or amorous gesture. Is never without partner.

And my personal favorites:
Extradimensional Rope
A dashing swordsman always has a rope to hand. Regardless of the time or place, if the situation calls for a rope to swing on or climb on, one is to hand, the right length, and effectively unbreakable. Our diagram was like the crocodiles. Note that this rope may be secured on the ceiling, or a passing cloud, or the moon, as necessary.

Abnormal Strike
The Dashing Swordsman can wield his blade against anything to unique effect. A character should tell a DM first, get approval, then may use the blade however necessary (it sticks into a stone wall, or force wall, or sphere of annihilation unscathed, physics and magic can catch up later).

StickMan
2006-12-18, 04:43 PM
I enjoy this way to much. Must not join next level. Its so sexy.

Skydiving_Ninja
2006-12-18, 05:51 PM
I agree with many who have said this. Some of the quips are too powerful. Also, there was another DSM class thread that had the "tag" ability, where you would use a rapier to inflict a small, demoralizing, cut to taunt the opponent. Also, you should probably make an ability that adds CHA to AC and keeps Dashing Swordsmen from wearing armor, since Julio and Elan aren't right now.

Lord Zentei
2006-12-18, 09:51 PM
Also, you should probably make an ability that adds CHA to AC and keeps Dashing Swordsmen from wearing armor, since Julio and Elan aren't right now.

That would be the "too pretty to die" ability.

Beelzebub1111
2006-12-18, 09:55 PM
I'm kidding I love it. It seems balanced. It gets Beelzebub's Seal of Approval

Duke of URL
2006-12-19, 10:35 AM
I've got to agree that the Just Quit and You Fail quips are overpowered. Just Quit first can be fixed by adding a Will saving throw to resist. You Fail needs to have a saving throw (Will again? Or maybe Fortitude?) and reduce to 1d6 CHA damage at most.

Drol Woodash
2006-12-19, 11:37 AM
I am TOTALLY going to take levels in this on my current campaign :D

A doppleganger dashing swordsman... I'll be the first!

pyrefiend
2006-12-19, 02:13 PM
Shouldnt "Do you get my point?" be a quip? It's the only one we've heard.

Duke of URL
2006-12-19, 02:21 PM
Shouldnt "Do you get my point?" be a quip? It's the only one we've heard.

It's just a witty remark used with Dashing Strike. No way does Elan qualify for any Quips yet.

Yakk
2006-12-19, 03:03 PM
I dunno. You should be able to sacrafice Bard levels to gain Dashing Swordsman levels at a rate of 1 Bard level every time you gain a Dashing Swordsman level. :)

Krimm_Blackleaf
2006-12-19, 05:36 PM
There's still no class skills or skill points per level. Has anyone else noticed?

Sorry, it's just driving me crazy.

Duke of URL
2006-12-19, 05:39 PM
There's still no class skills or skill points per level. Has anyone else noticed?

Sorry, it's just driving me crazy.

Should be pretty much the same as Bard, no?

weenie
2006-12-19, 07:34 PM
Should be pretty much the same as Bard, no?

The skill selection maybe, but the no. of skill points should be lowered. I think.

The Demented One
2006-12-19, 11:28 PM
I've made some changes to fix some of the issues that have been brought up. Many thanks to all of you for your comments, they've been of great help.

weenie
2006-12-20, 02:44 AM
Good job, the caracter now seems much more balanced witouth loosing its humor and of course charm. I'd only suggest you change the quip DCs to 10+cha+1/2 DS level.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2006-12-20, 04:13 AM
I've made some changes to fix some of the issues that have been brought up. Many thanks to all of you for your comments, they've been of great help.
Thank you very much. :smallbiggrin:

Yakk
2006-12-20, 10:58 AM
Good job, the caracter now seems much more balanced witouth loosing its humor and of course charm. I'd only suggest you change the quip DCs to 10+cha+1/2 DS level.

You don't need 1/2 DS level all that much.

A L 10 DS needs to be about a L 17 character. Having DC 20+cha for an ability that requires a L 17 character is not out to lunch. L 9 spells are DC 19+cha, DC 20+cha for a specialist.

fangthane
2006-12-20, 12:48 PM
Dashing Swordsman

There is more to combat than brute strength. For some, their sharpest blade is their tongue. These Dashing Swordsman are renowned for their quick swordplay and quicker wits. For the most part, these swordsmen are unable to rest in any one place–instead, they roam the world in search of adventure and glory.

d8 HD

Requirements
To qualify to become a Dashing Swordsman, you must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any Chaotic

I'd amend this to any non-lawful. It strikes me that charisma and the tendency to buckle swashes isn't necessarily entirely a pirate thing but could equally lend itself to a privateer (who generally tries to adhere to a code insofar as it's convenient and seems more of a neutral type)


Dashing Strike (Ex)
You gain the ability to strike your foe with your sheer force of personality. Whenever you hit a foe with a weapon to which you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat, you may make a witty pun or spout a catch-phrase. You must be able to speak in order to do so, but your foe need not be able to hear nor understand you. If you do, then you add your Cha modifier, rather than your Str modifier, to the damage roll.

Why is it, I wonder, that virtually all charisma-based abilities require that the subject be able to understand their aggressor, and this one doesn't?
In fact, comedy, the prerequisite you've listed, specifically doesn't translate well to other races and especially to non-humanoids - i.e. those who don't understand it. How do you rationalise that?

XtheYeti
2006-12-20, 12:50 PM
I have some quips for use

"Thats just cold."- as "Ooh Burn" but cold damage instead of fire

"Shocking, isn't it"- As "Ooh Burn" but electricity damage instead of fire

"You truly are pathetic"-subject takes a -2 moral penalty to all saves and attacks

"Thrust. Thrust. Parry. Parry. Good!"- subject must imediately take 2 attacks at their highest and second highest BAB, these attacks are made at a -2 because they are not chooseing to attack. These attacks count against their actions next round and if they can only make 1 attack per round the second attack is made at -5 their BAB. You then make 2 attacks at your highest BAB. Then must disengage from mele combat (All attacks are mele and this takes up 1 full round action.)You mst have 8lvl of DSM to take this quip.

Duke of URL
2006-12-20, 01:03 PM
Why is it, I wonder, that virtually all charisma-based abilities require that the subject be able to understand their aggressor, and this one doesn't?
In fact, comedy, the prerequisite you've listed, specifically doesn't translate well to other races and especially to non-humanoids - i.e. those who don't understand it. How do you rationalise that?

The comedy isn't directed at the enemy, it's directed to the "viewers"... playing to the audience is where the DS draws his or her power. Do you think every SMERSH or KGB agent "gets" James Bond's quips? But he wouldn't be "James Bond" without them.

Duke of URL
2006-12-20, 01:36 PM
Quip Suggestion:

"Is That The Best You Can Do?" (ex) [mind affecting] - Target must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 DS level + CHA modifier) or be forced to ignore all other opponents and direct all attacks to the Dashing Swordsman for the next 2d4 rounds; the target must attack (i.e., cannot take defensive or protective actions) but may choose whatever form of attacks (s)he deems appropriate; all attacks must be direct attacks against the Dashing Swordsman only (no area of effect spells or abilities unless no other reasonable choice is possible). During this time, the target loses all DEX and dodge bonuses to AC against all attackers other than the Dashing Swordsman, gains a +2 to Will saves against all attackers other than the Dashing Swordsman, and -2 to Will saves against the dashing Swordsman. If the target defeats the Dashing Swordsman (kills or incapacitates), then all effects from this quip cease immediately. The target may not surrender or accept surrender while under the effects of this quip. This quip requires a minimum DS level of 8 to use.

genic
2006-12-20, 03:44 PM
What about adding the Swordsmans cha bonus to his will save? Ie, confidence?

weenie
2006-12-20, 06:24 PM
You don't need 1/2 DS level all that much.

A L 10 DS needs to be about a L 17 character. Having DC 20+cha for an ability that requires a L 17 character is not out to lunch. L 9 spells are DC 19+cha, DC 20+cha for a specialist.

For something that's a free action and can be used along with normal attacking to have a DC equal to that of a specialist wizard's highest level spell, that's just too much if you ask me. Plus this is a prestige class, that's ment to be used by bards, and their highest DC for a spell is 16+cha. And if you compare the “Looks Like That Hurt!” quip to the stunning fist feat, it would be basically the same thing, only that with the dashing swordsman you simply don't need any other good ability scores except for cha and you need to spend a whole feat to get the stunning fist. I rest my case :smallsmile:

Oh yeah, and i agree that the restriction could simply be any non-lawful instead of any chaotic. No one takes neutral on the law-chaos axis anyway, but it's good to give players some space..

Siberys
2006-12-20, 11:48 PM
I suggest two other Quips regarding the energies;

"Such vitriol!" - acid

"Do you hear that noise?" - sonic. Reduce the Die Size by one for this one, of course, though.

Ravens_Wing
2006-12-20, 11:53 PM
This has to be one of the greatest ideas ever... lol I may just have to let my players use this class if they want to. Light I am going to end up having a doppleganer Dashing swordsman running around my world i just know it.... sigh... well good job to all!

XtheYeti
2006-12-21, 01:23 PM
What no one is going to tell me that Thrust Parry is either screwed up or just dumb

Yakk
2006-12-21, 01:30 PM
Stunning Fist uses character level, which starts at L 1, goes up to 20.

“Looks Like That Hurt!” uses prestigue class level, which starts about L 8, and goes up to 10 at L 18.

Level:"Looks" vs "Stunning" DC
12: NA vs 16
13: 16 vs 16
14: 16 vs 17
15: 17 vs 17
16: 18 vs 18
17: 19 vs 18
18: 20 vs 19
19: 20 vs 20
20: 20 vs 20

Notice how similar the numbers are. Stunning is ahead at L 14, Looks is ahead at L 17 and 18. In no case does their DCs differ by more than 1.

If you used 1/2 class level:
12: NA vs 16
13: 13 vs 16
14: 13 vs 17
15: 13 vs 17
16: 14 vs 18
17: 14 vs 18
18: 15 vs 19
19: 15 vs 20
20: 15 vs 20

Which is, how do you say, the suck?

Zion_of_the_Flame
2006-12-23, 10:48 PM
I just know my first post here ever is going to change many things:smallfrown: :
Weapon Panache
Benefit:With all light weapons, and the rapier, the taker of this feat may substitute her Charisma modifier for her attack rolls with such weapons.
Normal:Strength is used for attack rolls.

heroe_de_leyenda
2006-12-24, 09:56 AM
I don't know what you guys think but wouldn't it be better if you culd use any quip x times/day according to level, kinda like bardic music ability? less powerful quips could be used at lower levels and new quips are available as you level up. ALso, more powerful quips could spend more uses of the "quip" ability and so on...

Dragonmuncher
2006-12-24, 10:32 PM
I like!

I think it needs an ability that reflects awareness of drama- "The scene calls out to you, asking you to arrive in the nick of time" kind of thing. Maybe sort of like Bardic Knowledge, CHA-based, and only focuses on narrative?

Like, "hmm... My dramatic instincts tell me that, in a given pair of long lost twins, one is always evil!"

or

"If I jump right... NOW, I'll minimize damage from falling and the explosion! Just like a Vin Diesel movie!"

Gralamin
2006-12-25, 12:41 AM
Dashing Swordsman

There is more to combat than brute strength. For some, their sharpest blade is their tongue. These Dashing Swordsman are renowned for their quick swordplay and quicker wits. For the most part, these swordsmen are unable to rest in any one place–instead, they roam the world in search of adventure and glory.

About time, what have you been doing?

d8 HD
Sounds good


Requirements
To qualify to become a Dashing Swordsman, you must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any Non-Lawful
BAB: +6
Feats: Dodge, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Finesse
Skills: Bluff 9 ranks, Tumble 9 ranks, Perform (Comedy) 4 ranks[/quote]
Brilliant


The Dashing Swordsman's class skills are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Perhaps 6 + int? Its a small change but that seems like a lot of skills for 4 + int.


{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+0|+2|+0|Bonus Feat, Dashing Strike
2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0|Quip
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1|Fast Like A Freak
4th|+4|+1|+4|+1|Quip
5th|+5|+1|+4|+1|Too Pretty To Die
6th|+6|+2|+5|+2|Quip
7th|+7|+2|+5|+2|Greater Dashing Strike
8th|+8|+2|+6|+2|Quip
9th|+9|+3|+6|+3|Rapier Wit
10th|+10|+3|+7|+3|Better Lucky Than Skilled, Quip
[/table]

Its a table, What else is their to say?

Class Features
All the following are class features of the Dashing Swordsman prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
You gain proficiency with the rapier, sap, short sword, and whip. You gain proficiency with all light armor.
I'm pretty sure they have most of this if they didn't enter at level 12, still good to add in.


Bonus Feat (Ex)
At 1st level, you gain Combat Expertise as a bonus feat, even if you don't already meet the prerequisites for it. If you already have that feat, you may instead gain any feat which has Combat Expertise for a prerequisite as a bonus feat.
Perhaps add in "if you have all feats that have a prerequisite of Combat Expertise, you may select any other feat you meet the prerequisites for." Just in case someone's taking this at level 22 :P


Dashing Strike (Ex)
You gain the ability to strike your foe with your sheer force of personality. Whenever you hit a foe with a weapon to which you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat, you may make a witty pun or spout a catch-phrase. You must be able to speak in order to do so, but your foe need not be able to hear nor understand you. If you do, then you add your Cha modifier, rather than your Str modifier, to the damage roll.
Maybe a bit pushing it, but perhaps apply both?


Quip (Ex or Su)
At 2nd level, and each subsequent even level, you learn a quip. Whenever you use your dashing strike ability, you may choose to use a single one of your quips along with it. You may use each quip only once during an encounter. You may use each quip a total number of times per day equal to your Cha modifier. Some quips have minimum class level requirements you must meet before you can learn them. The quips you may learn are as follows:
Good feature


“Cat Got Your Tongue?” (Su)
When you use the “cat got your tongue?” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Will save, DC 10 + your class level + your Cha modifier, or be silenced, as the spell, with caster level equal to your class level. The silence affects only the enemy you strike–it does not emanate from him. The effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to your class level. You must be at least a 4th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.
Excellent


“Don’t Let Your Guard Down!” (Ex)
When you use the “don’t let your guard down!” quip, you attack ignores any damage reduction the enemy struck might have. You must be at least a 4th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.
Perhaps make them flat-footed instead?


“Gotcha!” (Ex)
When you use the “gotcha!” quip, you deal an additional amount of damage equal to half the number of ranks you have in Perform (Comedy).
Hehe nice, Round up or down?


“I’ll Be Gentle!” (Ex)
When you use the “I’ll be gentle!” quip, you attack deals only subdual damage. However, you deal an additional 1d8 points of damage.
Subdual is gone, nonlethal now


”Just Quit!” (Ex)
When you use the “just quit!” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Will save, DC 10 plus your class level plus your Charisma modifier, or take a -3 penalty on all attack rolls it makes against you. This penalty increases by one for every two class levels beyond 6th you have. This lasts for a number of rounds equal to half your class level. You must be at least a 6th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.
Great against fighter types


“Looks Like That Hurt!” (Ex)
When you use the “looks like that hurt!” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Fortitude save, DC 10 + your class level + your Cha modifier, or be stunned for 1 round. You must be at least a 6th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.
The level needed seems a bit high.


“Ooh, Burn!” (Su)
When you use the “ooh, burn!” quip, your attack deals an additional 1d6 points of fire damage.
Perhaps 1d6 pun damage as well? :smalltongue:


“Watch Your Feet!” (Ex)
When you use the “watch your feet!” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Reflex save, DC 10 + your character level + your Cha modifier, or fall prone.
It's like a trip attempt good against fighters!


“You Fail!” (Su)
When you use the “you fail!” quip, the enemy you strike must make a Will save, DC 10 plus your class level plus your Charisma modifier, or take 1d6 points of Charisma damage. Even if he successfully saves, he still takes 1 point of Charisma damage. You must be at least a 6th level Dashing Swordsman in order to learn this quip.
Wow.


"You'll Feel That One!" (Ex)
You may only use the "you'll feel that one!" quip when you successfully score a critical hit. You gain a luck bonus on the roll to confirm the critical hit equal to your Charisma modifier.
Nice.


Fast Like A Freak (Ex)
At 3rd level, when wielding a melee weapon that you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat with, you may feint within it in combat as a swift action.
Typo bolded


Too Pretty To Die (Su)
At 5th level, you can dodge unavoidable blows through sheer force of will and luck. As an immediate action, you may grant yourself a luck bonus to AC equal to your Cha modifier until the beginning of your next round. You may only use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Cha modifier.
Alternate name: "Too young to die"


Greater Dashing Strike (Ex)
At 7th level, whenever you attack a foe with a weapon to which you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat, you may make a witty pun or spout a catch-phrase. If you do, then you add your Cha modifier, rather than your Str or Dex modifier, to the attack roll.
Why would attack roll be better then damage?


Rapier Wit (Ex)
At 9th level, the critical threat range of any melee weapon to that you can apply the Weapon Finesse feat to is doubled when you wield it. This does not stack with other effects, such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat, that improve a weapon’s critical threat range.
remove typo. Good as it saves a feat and a weapon bonus.


Better Lucky Than Skilled (Su)
At 10th level, Fate bestows her favors upon you. Once per day, at the beginning of an encounter, you may choose to draw upon supernatural luck. For the duration of the encounter, whenever you make an attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw, you may roll two dice, and choose which die roll to use.
Thats pretty amazing


Credit to the Giant for the idea.
Always a good idea :smallwink:

XtheYeti
2006-12-26, 02:56 PM
Bump

This class has made Elan so much cooler!

Roderick_BR
2006-12-26, 06:34 PM
I've been reading this thread, and I think it's pretty much very well done!
I bet the Giant would expect someone to actually make that PrC, but I bed he didn't expect something so structured.
Hmm... maybe you could limit the number of times you can use the "Better luck than skilled" a day. It's pretty much the "Heros Luck"/"Lucky Domain granted power" without limit during a battle? Seems a bit overpowered. And you get to choose the result?

Hmmm... a quip... how bout
"That's gonna leave a mark": If you hit the target, he get's wounded, losing 1 HP every hound, as if he had been hit by a sword of wounding.

Fizban
2006-12-26, 06:56 PM
Wounding now deals a point of con damage per hit, though there are still effects that cause constant hp loss like that, so it's still possible.

horacegoesskiing
2006-12-26, 07:39 PM
Nicely done.

What happens when two dashing swordsman duel?
is there any counter quip?

-You'll Feel That One!
-About time!

Thexare Blademoon
2006-12-26, 07:50 PM
Why would attack roll be better then damage?

I read that as it being an addition to Dashing Strike - that is, it adds Cha to damage (as DS) and to attack rolls.

Alfryd
2006-12-26, 08:39 PM
I think it would be more sensible to have the various quip-related abilities based actively off the perform/bluff/intimdate skills. Say,something where you choose a damage modifier up to your cha modifier, and make a perform (act/comedy) skill check versus your opponents' sense motive + the damage bonus. I have no clue about balancing and so forth, but it seems to be there should be some more practical model for quipping.

You must be able to speak in order to do so, but your foe need not be able to hear nor understand you.
That doesn't make any sense at all. Your opponent has to be able to comprehend they're being mocked. And where are you getting all these quasi-supernatural effects from?

The comedy isn't directed at the enemy, it's directed to the "viewers"... playing to the audience is where the DS draws his or her power. Do you think every SMERSH or KGB agent "gets" James Bond's quips? But he wouldn't be "James Bond" without them.
I'm trying to stretch my suspension of disbelief far enough to accept that, but it's just not happening.

horacegoesskiing
2006-12-26, 08:45 PM
I think if the Dashing Swordsman thinks he is being cool, and gathers enough self confidence, it works through belief.

Alfryd
2006-12-26, 08:53 PM
On the part of the 'audience'? I think you'd realistically have to wait until epic level to get that kind of mystique.

I relaise this is intended kind of as a parody class, but something a little more mundane for the hardcore might be a useful alternative.

A_S
2006-12-27, 01:48 AM
Wheee, time to de-lurk.

The power of the Dashing Swordsman doesn't come from any in-game audience, nor does it come from his opponent's ability to understand and be (emotionally) hurt by his insults. Rather, it comes straight from the power of narrative convention (credit for this idea goes to somebody else on these forums, who said it first, but I don't remember who or where, so I can't give a proper reference).

Think of it this way: A well-crafted D&D campaign is, basically, a story. A highly interactive, unpredictable story, with dice, but a story nonetheless. And, in stories, really cool people who say really witty things during fights don't lose. Terry Pratchett has commented on this phenomenon at least once. It's also why the Agent that Trinity shot through the head in The Matrix didn't dodge the bullet in the time it took her to say "dodge this." Basically, in fiction, the laws of nature and probability will take a step back from the action if you're cool enough.

This is precisely the mystique of the Dashing Swordsman: (S)he draws power straight from something completely outside of the gameworld: The DM's and players' recognition of how unbelievably cool (s)he is. To represent this in in-game terms, when the character is displaying signs of this coolness, things tend to go supernaturally well for him/her...just like they do for every dashing, charismatic hero of pulp fantasy literature.

This class isn't meant to be a serious representation of reality within the D&D mythos. Rather, it's a humorous attempt (and a very good one, at that) to poke fun at the tendencies in fantasy literature (and DMing) for Fate to favor the cool.

Back to lurking, now.

Shadow of the Sun
2006-12-27, 05:27 AM
A_S, of that is any indication of your other posts, I am going to start worshiping you, mm'k?

Fizban
2006-12-27, 06:09 AM
Alternatively: it's like a battle cry, it strengthens your resolve an stuff. Like bardic music, it's kind of a morale bonus, except it's more personal so it's not actually a morale bonus.

Duke of URL
2006-12-27, 08:54 AM
This is precisely the mystique of the Dashing Swordsman: (S)he draws power straight from something completely outside of the gameworld: The DM's and players' recognition of how unbelievably cool (s)he is. To represent this in in-game terms, when the character is displaying signs of this coolness, things tend to go supernaturally well for him/her...just like they do for every dashing, charismatic hero of pulp fantasy literature.


It reminds me of the "dramatic tactical system" used in Paranoia -- instead of getting bogged down with the minutia of combat mechanics, let people generally do whatever they can make sound plausible, and reward them for being particularly inventive.

Alfryd
2006-12-27, 11:45 AM
Rather, it's a humorous attempt (and a very good one, at that) to poke fun at the tendencies in fantasy literature (and DMing) for Fate to favor the cool.
Oka-ay then. But no amount of witty banter will make your opponent spontaneously combust. And if it's intended as a parody, why worry too much about balancing?

I'd try coming up with an alternate class design that's quasi-realistic, but as mentioned I have little or no clue about balancing myself. Ah well. Enjoy yourselves.

The Demented One
2006-12-27, 12:44 PM
The way I see it, the quip does not have to be appreciated, or even understood, by your opponent - Nale clearly found Elan's quips pathetic, but he still took plenty of damage. Rather, the purpose of the quip is to bolster the Dashing Swordsman's own confidence, allowing him to work his magic.

Dragonmuncher
2006-12-27, 01:24 PM
I was just thinking about the Terry Pratchett thing, especially when you consider that the driving force of pretty much everything that happens in Discworld is the power of narrative, belief, and the story.

A_S
2006-12-27, 02:23 PM
Oka-ay then. But no amount of witty banter will make your opponent spontaneously combust.
Thus, things going supernaturally well for the DS. I will admit, though, the bonus fire damage might be going just a little far. The other quips all seem quite plausible within the context of cliched fantasy narrative, but I've never read about somebody getting so "burned" by an insult that they actually caught fire. So maybe I'll give you this one. But, on the other hand, the "Burned" quip is pretty funny, so maybe it should stay in there on account of that.


And if it's intended as a parody, why worry too much about balancing?
Because it's supposed to be a playable class. This is a "parody class" in the sense of being meant to be humorous; that doesn't mean it has no place in a real campaign. On the contrary, I'd love to play this in any campaign where the DM has set a light, humorous tone...basically, the kind of campaign that Rich is portraying with his comics.

Just because the tone of the campaign includes humor, though, doesn't mean it's any fun for the other players if somebody takes a few levels in this class and suddenly becomes invincible. So, balance is important.


I'd try coming up with an alternate class design that's quasi-realistic, but as mentioned I have little or no clue about balancing myself. Ah well. Enjoy yourselves.
I'm not sure what realistic basis there can be for this class, given what information Rich has given us about it (basically, that it lets you add your Cha modifier to damage). Aside from divine intervention (a la Divine Might feat), what basis can there be to add Cha to damage? And the DS's power clearly doesn't come from a divine agency; Elan doesn't even have a deity capable of granting supernatural effects (I refuse to believe that his puppet has enough followers to do anything like that).

*edit*
A_S, of that is any indication of your other posts, I am going to start worshiping you, mm'k?
Uh, sure, but I'm way too lazy to grant any spells, so don't plan on taking any divine caster levels.

Khantalas
2006-12-27, 02:39 PM
You don't actually try to grant divine spells: that is done automatically. Just ask my worshippers. I have no idea how they are casting those Vengeful Gazes of God.

Roderick_BR
2006-12-27, 03:01 PM
Then I ask, Khantalas, how is it a deity can deny the spells a follower uses? Aaagh, going off topic!

A_S
2006-12-27, 04:57 PM
Found the source I was looking for. The person who first suggested the idea of DS power coming from narrative convention (or, as he put it, narrative causality) was Jukashi, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1731952&postcount=9):

Well, it's not realistic, but I believe it stems from the same thing that Elan used to find Haley; drama.

Elan, I believe, is tapping into the force of narrative causality, the same force which causes heroes to escape death traps, crossdressing to be a foolproof disguise, and policemen to die one week from retirement. A similar effect is used in White Wolf's Exalted, where the player is rewarded when they describe their character's actions in a good way.

In short, the cooler you are, the more likely you are to succeed. This is, after all, a world created by the gods for their own amusement. If you're entertaining, the world itself favours you.
There, no plagiarism anymore.

Alfryd
2006-12-27, 10:32 PM
Because it's supposed to be a playable class. This is a "parody class" in the sense of being meant to be humorous; that doesn't mean it has no place in a real campaign.
Question- does this compaign feature or does it not feature the magical Lead Sheet of Wanging?
The whole thing with Rich's campaign is that he's deliberately using it to poke holes at the general flaws of the D&D system, insofar as it refers to the rules at all these days.

I'm not sure what realistic basis there can be for this class, given what information Rich has given us about it (basically, that it lets you add your Cha modifier to damage...)
Well, if one supposes an extension of the general idea of the Feint standard action, and one supposes that psychological taunting leaves your opponent off-gaurd or clouds his judgement, I can see quasi-plausible mechanics based, as mentioned, directly off existing skill sets.
Of course, Rich does mention other 'typical features' of the class- swooning damsels, narrative serendipity and so forth, but it might be possible to work them in.

And the DS's power clearly doesn't come from a divine agency...
Actually, I was just think that you esentially have here a cha-based divine spellcaster with a particularly restrictive narrative-based code of conduct. In the same way that rangers and druids draw power from ambient nature-spirits, and clerics from deities, 'Fate' gives the DS his power, according to my limited understanding.

A_S
2006-12-28, 01:00 AM
Question- does this compaign feature or does it not feature the magical Lead Sheet of Wanging?
The whole thing with Rich's campaign is that he's deliberately using it to poke holes at the general flaws of the D&D system, insofar as it refers to the rules at all these days.
Heh. Okay, point taken. Maybe not precisely the sort of campaign Rich has set out. I'd still be okay taking levels of this class in a campaign that didn't take itself too seriously, though.


Well, if one supposes an extension of the general idea of the Feint standard action, and one supposes that psychological taunting leaves your opponent off-gaurd or clouds his judgement, I can see quasi-plausible mechanics based, as mentioned, directly off existing skill sets.
Of course, Rich does mention other 'typical features' of the class- swooning damsels, narrative serendipity and so forth, but it might be possible to work them in.
I'd be interested to see your ideas. You mentioned that your worry about submitting a class of your own was that you didn't know how to balance it, so maybe try and get help on the details from somebody who knows more about game mechanics than you (that would probably not be me; I'm no expert either).


Actually, I was just think that you esentially have here a cha-based divine spellcaster with a particularly restrictive narrative-based code of conduct. In the same way that rangers and druids draw power from ambient nature-spirits, and clerics from deities, 'Fate' gives the DS his power, according to my limited understanding.
Hmmm...

If, as you seem to, you think of the laws of narrative convention as a divine agency, you could think of it that way. In that they're outside the game reality (sort of self-referential, like actors in a play referring to the audience, even though for the characters they're playing, the audience doesn't exist), I think of it as something completely apart from gods/spirits, but I suppose either viewpoint is valid.

Torger
2007-01-02, 11:06 AM
Oka-ay then. But no amount of witty banter will make your opponent spontaneously combust. And if it's intended as a parody, why worry too much about balancing?

I'd try coming up with an alternate class design that's quasi-realistic, but as mentioned I have little or no clue about balancing myself. Ah well. Enjoy yourselves.

I don't want to get into a big thing here, but we're making a modification for a game in which magic is as common as odd socks, Dwarves and gnomes cavort about with sylphs and genies, and it is entirely plausible to see Mephistopheles and the Bahamut having a drink and playing baccarat in an extraplanar bar. Realism, thy name is not Dungeons and Dragons.

XtheYeti
2007-01-02, 12:24 PM
After all this random banter heres a new quip.
"Watch your step"-Make a trip attack and add your char (and anything ealse you normaly would)

Nazzo, the 102nd
2007-01-02, 03:18 PM
I would add something that gives bonus if the DS makes a big entrance in the scene. Like the one Elan did, when he broke through the room's window.

I could deny the foes that are able to see him the dex bonus to AC on that round. If it is the first, then make it a suprise round, where the foes are flat-footed.

This ability could increase as the DS gains levels. Like, the foes that were able to see the marvelous entrance on the fight scene may roll a Will save with a certain DC or become fearful. Or, maybe, have penalties on their attack rolls.

Like the fearful presence of dragons, but slightly cooler. :smallbiggrin:

Fhaolan
2007-01-02, 06:28 PM
I think I will need to point this prestige class out to one of my players. It is just too appropriate for his character concept. :)

NinjaFish
2007-01-07, 02:30 AM
Reminds me of the Clockword Swordsmen from second edition. They had a list of quip-like abilities that they could use (cutting a person's suspenders/belt/armor buckles so that their pants fall down and the like.)

All in all, I'm quite taken with this PrC.

DepOpt
2007-01-08, 03:09 PM
I have to say, I came onto the forums looking for this class, and I've made an account so that I can comment on it.

It is a brilliant idea. The way me and my friends play our games, we take the piss out of it all on a regular basis. Our DM actually wrote in a new god for our friend Andrew, who just sits and makes comments instead of playing, I'll get the stats from him sometime.

But yeah, for a lighthearted campaign this seems so perfect, especially if you have players that like to make a show, both in game and in real life. Good work basically. And everyone commenting on the lack of realism, get a sense of humour, please.

It could be that the extra damage and attack power given by the DS class is psychosomatic. You can get a feeling when someone is mocking you even if you don't fully understand them, and if they are doing it with obvious flair then that part of your mind that gives people such a wondeful capacity for stories makes it all hurt more. against mindless enemies, it might be reasoned that the effect is on the DS's mind, giving them confidence and surety to do things that before they did not believe they could do.

or it could all just be a joke and a way of putting an entertaining class into a good game.

Zeure
2007-01-09, 07:17 PM
Query-Why would you want to make lightning reflexes a feat req for this class?

If the general idea is to have a bard take this to give them some decent attack powers and they start out with a good reflex save (will save too honestly, bards are seriously underestimated imho), it seems kinda wierd to make them take a feat they don't need, unless you're just taking it for the name, which does fit.

I'll also point out it's equally good for rogues, who also have a good reflex save.

How about, instead, we consider setting a base reflex save requirement. Like...a +4 or +5 even. It makes it easier for bards and rogues (who it seems the class was intended for) since they don't have many feats. It makes the bard capable of other things besides getting into this class

Matthew
2007-01-10, 02:15 PM
A well done Prestige Class, but where's the old "There's something you don't know about me... I'm actually left handed..."?

Torger
2007-01-10, 09:53 PM
A well done Prestige Class, but where's the old "There's something you don't know about me... I'm not actually left handed..."?

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Ultimatum479
2007-01-10, 10:12 PM
Matthew has a point.

Also, there's a minor flaw with regards to accuracy...Unless Elan gained two levels during that bit of training (even one would already probably make him higher level than the other members of the party), he wouldn't have Quip if TDS gets it at level 2.

Talyn
2007-01-12, 01:48 PM
I agree with reucing the number of skills per level. 3+INT per level, from the bard skill list. If I might make two suggestions, they would be to

a) replace Perform (Comedy) with Diplomacy, and
b) nerf the bejeezus out of "Better Lucky Thank Skilled." I mean, you essentially get to roll twice for every roll for an entire encounter!? That's INSANE. Perhaps you can do it for one roll, a number of times per day equal to your CHA modifier.

Matthew
2007-01-12, 08:46 PM
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Oops, yes, I thought I was misquoting somewhere along the line...

Sylian
2007-01-13, 07:14 AM
Hey, would it be okay for me to take things from this PrC and make it into a base class for my game (s)? I really like the concept and most of the class abilities are good.

N35t0r
2007-01-14, 11:32 AM
It reminds me of the Gladiator PrC in 3.0's Sword and Fist. I liked that class... A couple of it's abilities did require an audience though.

Mitth'raw'nuruo
2007-04-03, 02:49 PM
Very good job

Eighth_Seraph
2007-04-03, 03:58 PM
...now THIS is thredomancy. It's been over two months since the last post here, Mitthra...Mretta...my pixie friend. Please check the date on a thread before posting on it, and try to add something productive while you're at it, hm?

Zeta Kai
2007-04-03, 05:16 PM
I must say though, threadomantic or not, I like the handle. Someone's been reading Timothy Zahn.

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-12, 07:47 PM
Since this thread is up, recent evidence suggests that Elan's "Charisma to roll" ability is actually available as a first-level class feature(or else he would be a massive 3-10 levels ahead of the rest of the OotS). Charisma to damage is probably further down in the progression.

Duke Malagigi
2007-05-20, 05:34 PM
I'm a little disappointed by the non-Lawful restriction. What on Earth should prevent Lawful characters from taking this class? I can even think of some paladins who could qualify otherwise.

kirbsys
2007-05-26, 10:47 PM
Isn't the dashing swordsman supposed to be broken? I mean it was from a bargain bin book, and it made Elan helpful.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-06-30, 08:00 PM
I don't think I even need to say what I want to suggest... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html)

DracoDei
2007-06-30, 08:08 PM
Yeah, but at what level?
Probably first... seems a pretty iconic, and yet not THAT useful ability...
Hmmmm... would it give them DR or something vs Stained Glass Golems?

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-06-30, 08:22 PM
Yeah, but at what level?
Probably first... seems a pretty iconic, and yet not THAT useful ability...
Hmmmm... would it give them DR or something vs Stained Glass Golems?

Nah, they're a real pane in the glass...

psychoticbarber
2007-06-30, 08:39 PM
Nah, they're a real pane in the glass...

Ooooh, that pun was so bad my ears are burning.

Oh, crap.

*bursts into flame.*

TheOOB
2007-06-30, 09:22 PM
The class could get a series of "Dramatic Entrance" abilities which you choose from a list. None of them would be all that effective, but they'd have great flavor. Stuff life fire resistance 5 when jumping through a non-magical fire, or the ability to make a charge attack while swinging on a rope.

The Demented One
2007-06-30, 09:47 PM
Why...won't...this...thread...die!?

TheOOB
2007-06-30, 09:50 PM
Why...won't...this...thread...die!?

Because it's awesome?

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-06-30, 10:16 PM
Ooooh, that pun was so bad my ears are burning.

Oh, crap.

*bursts into flame.*

Actually, it just let me get my Charisma mod to attack and possibly damage. I didn't use the 'Ohhh, Burn' Quip... :smallbiggrin:

The Demented One
2007-06-30, 10:16 PM
Fine...added dramatic entrance abilities. Now go comment on my other threads, you meddling kids!

Poppatomus
2007-06-30, 10:17 PM
Are we allowed to comment on Karrath yet? I'd like to give kudos for the SH beast made "flesh."

The Demented One
2007-06-30, 10:18 PM
Yeah, Pyramid Head's been wanting to be statted up for a while, so I tried to do him a shadow of justice.

Firebert
2008-01-06, 11:21 AM
I am very glad that you added this, man! This should provide plenty of fun for many.

Nimor Chen
2008-02-08, 06:45 AM
Pretty good work, Demented.
Looking forward to build an "Elan" for our new RPG group

Kallisti
2009-07-26, 03:22 PM
...Stop doing that!

If you keep making all this awesome homebrew, I'll never have time to do anything but read it!

TheVsw
2010-09-16, 03:14 PM
Is the info in the beginning after all the criticism? If not where is the one where you revised everything? I would very much like to play one of these, think of the roleplaying opportunities

evanway2
2010-09-16, 03:19 PM
Pesonally i think the class is EPIC:smallcool:

Vaynor
2010-09-16, 04:06 PM
The Red Towel: Thread necromancy.