[PF] Help building a Necromancer

[Valnar]

Hiho good folks of GitP, I once again require your expertise in creating a character.
This time it's for a Pathfinder campaign. My GM wants to lead an evil group and would like to have a Necromancer as well, which is one of my favorite concepts in fantasy, so I'm definitely game for it.
The problem is that, as far as I can tell, there are several ways you could go to create a Necromancer, but I have no idea what their advantages over each other are.
I do however have an idea in mind of what I do and don't want to be able to do with this character:

I do want to control undead
I do want it to be a ton of undead
I do want to become a Lich eventually
I do want to have a tiny pet gelatinous cube. Just for the lulz of it. My GM already allowed it. Don't you judge me.
I don't want to focus on casting Death Rays of Doom or similar stuff
I don't want to summon undead out of thin air. I do want to actually raise the dead.


So, which way would be best to achieve what I want? Wiz, Sorc, Cleric, Oracle, Witch or something else entirely? Please include some whys and hows in your answers/recommendations.

Thank you in advance for any advice you can give me.

[Aemoh87]

I know this doesn't fit your requirements but look at Juju mystery Oracle. JUJU ZOMBIES. You won't become a lich but you will become a creepy pasta voodoo person who does weird things like walks through walls and reads animal entrails. Oh yeah and zombies with class levels that too.

[Raven777]

If you are allowed 3rd party content, the Death Mage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/death-mage) is a Charisma fueled full casting 3/4 BAB light armor wearing necromancy specialist. It is "advised by the spirits of the departed", which is nice fluff. They are also naturally proficient with scythes. Pick Corpse Mage as your Pale Road and go to town with skeleton and zombie cohorts and followers who get to keep their class abilities.

[Segev]

Honestly, you might ask your DM if you can use 3.5 material.

Dread Necromancer would be perfect, even running all the way to 20.

Even going with PF Specialist Necromancer (a good choice, since it gets Rebuke/Command undead!), though, you want at least some of the feats in the chain starting with Corpsecrafter, which is in Libris Mortis. (+4 enhancement to Str and Dex, and +2 hp/HD, for every undead you create. Dread Necromancer's 8th level class feature does the same thing; the stat bonuses don't stack, but the bonus hp/HD do!)

[NightbringerGGZ]

I would avoid a Wizard Necromancer with your list of wants. It's more geared towards the death ray blasting end of things.

An Undead Lord gets a companion Zombie or Skeleton, some bonuses to healing undead and some good freebie feats for commanding undead. Other than your companion, creation of undead minions starts at level 5.

A Gravewalker witch can be a fun and powerful option as well. Hexes for debuffing your enemies. You can deliver touch attacks as ranged touch attacks if you do choose to go with debuffing spells (or want to heal your undead at range). You can't create an undead minion right off the bat, but you can take control of one if you can find one (and can even direct its body with your mind). The downside to the witch is that you'll be delaying the levels at which you gain your undead creation spells.

[Segev]

Honestly... I'd go with the wizard, and ask if you can take an ACF that trades its Familiar/Arcane Focus trait for the Undead Lord's "Corpse Companion," and treats Animate Dead as a 3rd level spell.

[grarrrg]

I do want to control undead
I do want it to be a ton of undead
I do want to become a Lich eventually


You'll probably want to go Agent of the Grave PrC (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave)
You do lose 1 level of casting, but ALL of your Agent levels count double towards how many Undead you can control (yes, the dead level still counts twice, as per the example they give).

Starting with the first level, you can apply CHA instead of CON to your HP (this ability even works with NON-Agent levels you take afterwards).

2nd level lets you affect Undead with mind spells as though they weren't undead.

3rd is a free 1/day Desecrate (www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/desecrate) effect. And all undead you make are always made as if under the effect of a Desecrate.

(4th level isn't bad, just nothing super-awesome)

5th level lets you add a number of off-list Necromancy spells to your spell list. The amount is equal to your INT mod.
Note: they are added to your spell LIST not your spells KNOWN.

Now comes the tricky part, which class to use for entry?
Skill Rank requirements means entry at 6th at the absolute earliest. And the Animate Dead casting requirement usually pushes this back another level or 3.
CHA to HP can be VERY nice, especially if your casting is CHA based.
And the bonus Necromancy spells are based on INT.

Cleric (Undead Lord (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo---cleric-archetypes/undead-lord))
Pros: Can have an Undead "companion" of HD=Cleric Level. Has quickest access to the Animate Dead spell out of all classes. Command Undead as a bonus feat.
Cons: WIS based, which combos the least with Agent.

Oracle (Bones or Juju Mystery (Black Blooded archetype for flavor)
Pros: CHA based. Animate Dead at 6th. Both Mysteries can get Command Undead/Channeling as a Revelation. Bones is better for general flavor/abilities, but Juju can control up to SIX HD of minions with Animate Dead per caster level, AND your minions get Maximum Hit Points.
Cons: You'll miss out on the Final Revelation by going Agent. None of the Curses synergize all that well.

Sorcerer
Pros: CHA based helps with the HP thing, Sanguine (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/sanguine) Wildbloodline is preferred, for the +1 to Caster level for Necromancy spells (and the default Undead Arcana is duplicated by an Agent ability). Also, you aren't missing out on much by not being a straight class Sorcerer.
Cons: Doesn't get much else to support the Minion-master thing. Can't get Animate Dead until level 8 at the earliest (9th if you wait for it as a Bloodline bonus).

Witch (Gravewalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/gravewalker))
Pros: INT based for the bonus spells, gets Animate Dead as a 3rd level spell at 6th level. Can gain a special minion.
Cons: Not a lot of support abilities. Would lose out on some better Hexes/class features.

Wizard (Necromancy school)
Pros: INT based for the bonus spells. Gets Command Undead/Channeling. Doesn't lose out on much for not being straight classed.
Cons: Doesn't get Animate Dead until level 7.

Overall I'd go with Oracle, you get CHA to HP, and some decent bonuses all around.

EDIT: For the sake of completeness, a Druid can also qualify for Agent of the Grave, as there are multiple ways to get off-list spells. Druid is also by far the worst choice out of all full casters at Undead-minionmancy (not to mention the flavor issue).

[Blyte]

@Gararrrg - curse of the black blood has nice synergy with the oracle options.

[Valnar]

So, first off: Thank you everybody for your advice, especially grarrrg for his very comprehensive list. I read through all of it and I'm prety sure I'm going to go the Juju Oracle way, Black Blooded as was suggested. I'm also going to go Sylph I think.

Now, I'd like some advice on how to progress concerning the Agent of the Grave PrC. Do I go 6 lvls of Oracle, then 5 lvls of Agent of the Grave, then Oracle again? I never multiclassed before, so I really don't know what options I have and what their advantages are.
Thanks again for your help, everybody!

[Blyte]

juju oracle already recieve some choice arcane spells, and you may not want to even multi into the PrC.

especially if you are going 20+, the capstone is friggin amazing.

[monkey3]

...then 5 lvls of Agent of the Grave,...


This one confuses me. I cannot understand if you lose 5 class levels when/if you turn into a Lich (5th level Agent of the Grave ability).

[grarrrg]

Now, I'd like some advice on how to progress concerning the Agent of the Grave PrC. Do I go 6 lvls of Oracle, then 5 lvls of Agent of the Grave, then Oracle again? I never multiclassed before, so I really don't know what options I have and what their advantages are.
Thanks again for your help, everybody!

As mentioned, a level 20 Oracle is perfectly serviceable, and comes with different perks.

That beign said, Multiclassing/PrCing is pretty simple.
The simple way would be taking Oracle for 6 levels, then take all 5 Agent of the Grave levels, then continuing to take levels of Oracle.
So at Character level 7 you'd be Oracle 6/Agent of the Grave 1
At Character level 11 you'd be Oracle 6/Agent of the Grave 5
At Character level 12 you'd be Oracle 7/Agent of the Grave 5
At Character level 20 you'd be Oracle 15/Agent of the Grave 5

Keep in mind that your Curse progresses at 1/2 rate for each non-Oracle level. So 2 levels of Agent would count for +1 towards Curse bonuses.


This one confuses me. I cannot understand if you lose 5 class levels when/if you turn into a Lich (5th level Agent of the Grave ability).

I am confused by what your question is...

[Valnar]

Thanks, I think I get the gist of it now :smallsmile:

As for monkey3's question, I think he is referring to the case described in the description of the Undeath Initiate class feature, where a character killed by a creature using it's create spawn ability (not by voluntarily becoming a lich, if I read that correctly) loses all class levels. I guess the question is, does that mean all levels of the Agent of the Grave PrC or all levels in every class and what does actually happen to that character regarding skills, feats, abilities etc.
It's really quite confusing, imo.

[Erik Vale]

Thanks, I think I get the gist of it now :smallsmile:

As for monkey3's question, I think he is referring to the case described in the description of the Undeath Initiate class feature, where a character killed by a creature using it's create spawn ability (not by voluntarily becoming a lich, if I read that correctly) loses all class levels. I guess the question is, does that mean all levels of the Agent of the Grave PrC or all levels in every class and what does actually happen to that character regarding skills, feats, abilities etc.
It's really quite confusing, imo.

Only applies if you get killed by things that create spawn that aren't free willed/don't keep class levels, in which case you become a standard one that is free willed and a PC [say, you could become a shadow with your own memories]. If you were killed by a vampire however, you would keep your class levels and remain free willed.

However as you want to become a lich, the only part you need to worry about is the bonus to all rolls to become a lich.

[Valnar]

Awesomesauce. Thank you again, everyone.

[Erik Vale]

Also, might I suggest you get the Cauldren of the Dead [it's on the SRD], less for animating dead [you can do that, however this way you don't need onyx but herbs] but for giving them to your teammeates to control [or your undead to control, who you then tell to tell the undead to obey you, and you stuff the first gen undead in your backpack].

If you combine with false focus [or just that feat with animate dead], all undead under 4hd are free, but once you have 33000gp to spend, that is rarely relevant unless it's the kingmaker or low level sort of game [Mmm. , unless you arm the all with bows and spells of abundant ammunition and go crit fishing...

Is it wrong of me to be thinking of false focus + Animate Dead + P6?