Pathfinder paladin punch problems.

[Doomboy911]

So the handbooks are amazingly useful and I've been using them for some of my builds to make characters that I really like. So now my friend has called upon me for a game of Pathfinder. As far as I know the handbooks are a smidge short on pathfinder material and the dm is a no go on 3.5 stuff (the fiend). So I have come to the sanctum of Nerdhalla seeking guidance and assistance from the great minds of this great site.

I'm playing as a paladin who for reasons of his own wears chainmail armor and fights with his fists (or gauntlets) while also wielding a shield for some protection. Battlefield control is my main focus along with making himself the biggest target to protect others.

So can you folks help. Don't know my stats yet but I am level five.

[Psyren]

I came across a PF Paladin Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/cryptic-s-lab) that may help.

(Edit: "Nerdhalla?")

[Metahuman1]

You will want damage boosters aplenty. Power attack, Buff Spells, the Highest Str you can get and any other tricks you can find.

Trip will help your battle field control some, but honestly, you want reach or magic of that.

Consider the Oracle for a dip in order to become a more effective healer and keep yourself on your feat longer and keep your allies patched up in and out of combat. They will like this and do things to help you like flank enemy's with you so you have a higher bonus to hit so you can power attack more, or cast buff spells on you.

[Slipperychicken]

(Edit: "Nerdhalla?")

I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions?

All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.

[Psyren]

I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions?

All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.

You forgot arguing about monks, ToB and DMing styles, but the rest seems to fit.

[Fitz10019]

If you're empty-handed, it may be interesting to disarm (because you'd get the weapon in your hand). Just imagine the smug satisfaction of snatching a rogue's rapier and then tossing it way before you backhand him in the face with your secondary attack.

[Doomboy911]

Hmm
Two weapon fighting to rock both hands.
Improved disarm to avoid the attack of opportunity. I don't know how a shield qualifies weapon wise. Because I feel I should be able to shield bash to disarm.
weapon finesse maybe so I can focus on dex.

Rock some chainmail armor with a max dex bonus of 2 and a ac bonus of + 5 with a tower shield with an ac bonus of 4 which is nine using total defense each round with five or more ranks in tumble I can get a +6 to my ac along with whatever my dex bonus is which will probably be 16 or higher so +3

18 bonus to armor. And I'm in chainmail. I'd be worst off in platemail.

Put some spikes on my shield to get a free shield bash and maybe trade weapon finesse out for extra lay on hands to continued healing of self.

That's pretty nasty for level five right?

Edit: Can't put spikes on a tower shield.

So I've got my defense covered pretty nicely so now I need help dealing damage since I'm doing a d4 on my punches.

[JungleChicken]

If you're empty-handed, it may be interesting to disarm (because you'd get the weapon in your hand). Just imagine the smug satisfaction of snatching a rogue's rapier and then tossing it way before you backhand him in the face with your secondary attack.

This reminded me of Tombstone (great movie by the way Val Kilmer was awesome)

Snatch rapier, backhand, at the end of your turn as the rogue "So are you gonna do something or just stand there and bleed?"

[Alefiend]

Edit: Can't put spikes on a tower shield.

Not only can't you put spikes on it, you can't bash with it at all.



You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else.

When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance.

The tower shield will be more of a liability than a benefit. Go with a large shield and remember to color your maille blue. Little wings on your helmet are optional. :smallbiggrin:

[Doomboy911]

Not only can't you put spikes on it, you can't bash with it at all.



The tower shield will be more of a liability than a benefit. Go with a large shield and remember to color your maille blue. Little wings on your helmet are optional. :smallbiggrin:

Dm won't let me have shield sling.

[nedz]

I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions?

All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.

Pizza, you forgot pizza !

[Slipperychicken]

Pizza, you forgot pizza !

How could I forget one of the main delicacies of Nerdhalla? :smallbiggrin:

[grarrrg]

I'm playing as a paladin who for reasons of his own wears chainmail armor and fights with his fists (or gauntlets) while also wielding a shield for some protection.
...
So can you folks help. Don't know my stats yet but I am level five.

I'm sorely tempted to suggest Champion of Irori.
3 levels Monk, 2 levels Paladin.
Full stacking for Unarmed Damage, and Smite power, and grants the option to Smite Chaos as well!

Since you likely won't have the Stats for 'the full package', then we'll do our best to shun the nonbeliever WISdom.
Wearing armor (as well as using a shield) as a Monk means you'll lose "AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities."
AC bonus isn't a big thing, since you're wearing armor.
Fast movement is always more of a "eh, why not" thing anyway.
So the only real loss is Flurry of Blows.

So what Monk archetypes keep Still Mind, but trade away Flurry, Fast Move and/or AC bonus?
Master of Many Styles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/master-of-many-styles) ditches Flurry, gets you a couple Style feats, I'm sure there's at least one that will be useful.
Flowing Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk) loses Fast Movement and gains a few abilities with potential.
And that's about it...all the rest are actively bad, or "meh".

[Doomboy911]

Dm canned the very idea of me wielding two shields and fighting bare hand. I was given proper paladin training and should wield a weapon.

[NeoSeraphi]

Dm canned the very idea of me wielding two shields and fighting bare hand. I was given proper paladin training and should wield a weapon.

I'm sorry, what? Breaking stereotypes is part of being an adventurer! You must resist your DMs tyranny and play the character you wrote! Did the great drow of copyrighted fame just roll over and take it when his DM said "You're a dark elf so you have to be Chaotic Evil, live underground, worship a Spider Queen, and by the way, dude, don't even think about dual wielding scimitars. Do you know how many penalties you'll get?"?

NO! That drow who must not be named left his home, left his upbringing, and left his hand crossbow! You must do the same!

[Psyren]

*Gives NeoSeraphi a funny look*

@ OP: If your DM isn't ironclad against 3.5 material, you can show him the Argent Fist PrC from Eberron that lets Monk and Paladin levels stack for smite and stunning fist, and lets you benefit from the Monk AC bonus while wearing full plate. Thus you could play a plate-wearing brawler quite well. Note however that it doesn't advance your spellcasting one bit.

[Doomboy911]

*Gives NeoSeraphi a funny look*

@ OP: If your DM isn't ironclad against 3.5 material, you can show him the Argent Fist PrC from Eberron that lets Monk and Paladin levels stack for smite and stunning fist, and lets you benefit from the Monk AC bonus while wearing full plate. Thus you could play a plate-wearing brawler quite well. Note however that it doesn't advance your spellcasting one bit.

He is quite ironclad can't even use third party material.

[Doomboy911]

*Gives NeoSeraphi a funny look*

@ OP: If your DM isn't ironclad against 3.5 material, you can show him the Argent Fist PrC from Eberron that lets Monk and Paladin levels stack for smite and stunning fist, and lets you benefit from the Monk AC bonus while wearing full plate. Thus you could play a plate-wearing brawler quite well. Note however that it doesn't advance your spellcasting one bit.

He is quite ironclad can't even use third party material.

[nedz]

Dm canned the very idea of me wielding two shields and fighting bare hand. I was given proper paladin training and should wield a weapon.

And when you lose that weapon ? Accidentally, of course :smallamused:


Play Spear and Shield
1st round of combat - throw the spear
2nd round - fist time.

[Psyren]

Be sure you pick up IUS before trying that.

[Person_Man]

My thoughts:

A shield is a one handed weapon. But like all one handed weapons, you can wield it in two hands if you want to. It's not particularly optimal, but the damage output will probably be better then using unarmed strike or spiked gauntlets.

Normally I would suggest a mounted Paladin with a lance, because Spirited Combat is one of the few ways to get a damage multiplier in Pathfinder, and having a mount makes you a lot more mobile and gives your enemies another target, and Paladins get excellent Special Mounts. But if you're going with the shield, you may want to consider the Sacred Shield Archetype (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classArchetypes/paladin.html). The ability to reduce damage from your Smite target to allies by 50% is probably one of the most powerful defenses in Pathfinder.

You could also go Monk/Paladin/Champion of Irori: Allows you to Smite Evil or Chaos, stacks for various things. There are a couple of different optimization tricks with this, but in general they're super MAD, and only worth it for mid-level games.

Missile Shield/Ray Shield/Spellbreaker (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedFeats.html) Feats are useful, but require that you be a Fighter or that your DM handwave the requirements away.

[Sayt]

It doesn't allow chainmail or shield, but there is the Champion of Irori (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/champion-of-irori).

[grarrrg]

It doesn't allow chainmail or shield, but there is the Champion of Irori (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/champion-of-irori).

Slight correction: It doesn't allow armor/shields to be used with Monk features, but it still allows it.

See my post above for a longer explanation.

[Metahuman1]

My thoughts:

A shield is a one handed weapon. But like all one handed weapons, you can wield it in two hands if you want to. It's not particularly optimal, but the damage output will probably be better then using unarmed strike or spiked gauntlets.

Normally I would suggest a mounted Paladin with a lance, because Spirited Combat is one of the few ways to get a damage multiplier in Pathfinder, and having a mount makes you a lot more mobile and gives your enemies another target, and Paladins get excellent Special Mounts. But if you're going with the shield, you may want to consider the Sacred Shield Archetype (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classArchetypes/paladin.html). The ability to reduce damage from your Smite target to allies by 50% is probably one of the most powerful defenses in Pathfinder.

You could also go Monk/Paladin/Champion of Irori: Allows you to Smite Evil or Chaos, stacks for various things. There are a couple of different optimization tricks with this, but in general they're super MAD, and only worth it for mid-level games.

Missile Shield/Ray Shield/Spellbreaker (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedFeats.html) Feats are useful, but require that you be a Fighter or that your DM handwave the requirements away.

This works best if you can find a small race you can use that doesn't have a STR penalty. Even better if it has a +2 that you can just assign to any stat.

What way you can have a medium mount and go most places the rest of the party can go and fight form there.

[Doomboy911]

So lets talk about the focus of this character since the idea of dual shielding has fallen through.

More than anything else he has a desire to defend, he became a paladin not to slay evil but to inspire good and hope in people.A strong desire to stand firm as a totem of justice, and peace.

The dm seems to want me to wield either a sword and shield or take a lance and mount. I already have another paladin who wields a lance (he kicks a holy amount of butt) I want to do my best to adhere to his image of the paladin while still getting my way.

I want to put my efforts towards intimidating and using diplomacy to either calm my enemy or scare them away. I figured this would be the most peaceful non-confrontational path. So any help?