What to do?

[sambouchah]

Recently in a game a player brought a 13th level character into a party of first level adventurers. I told him no to this more than three times and he devoutly refused. So I warned everyone beforehand "I'm no where near above killing your characters, you should all know this with your choices." He still brought the character into the game through use of homebrew from ANOTHER Dm's game. Along with that homebrew he brought in several powerful items and things like that. So I killed him within 30 minutes of gameplay. He had fair warning and a several no's to go along with it. The items on the character were scavenged by the rogue of the party and then stolen from him. They are now on a self appointed quest to retrieve these items.

What I do not understand is the fact that they are now level 11 with items rivaling that of the original and still are lusting after them. I'm not really sure how to deal with it at this point. They have zero leads as to where the items are located(sold at Union to some extraplanar being if I have to choose). Should I continuously dangle the gear in front of them to keep them moving for something, or just tell them the items are gone?

Thanks for any help you can give, Sam

P.S. Am I a tyrant or just doing what I can to deal with a stubborn player?

[Grollub]

are you gm'ing that game?

if yes.. then wth? you are the gm.. what you say goes. no one just "brings" someone into your game.. you tell them what is allowed and they follow it.

[Trunamer]

Recently in a game a player brought a 13th level character into a party of first level adventurers...What I do not understand is the fact that they are now level 11...
Wait, I'm confused. First you say they're recently 1st level, but then you say they're 11th level?

Anyway, no you're not a tyrant. If you made a mistake, it was letting the stubborn player bring in his toon from another DM's game -- that's generally a big no-no, regardless of the levels involved.

As to why they're still obsessed with the stubborn guy's stuff? It's human...er, rather, player nature. It goes something like this: When PCs handle powerful loot, no matter how fleetingly, it becomes their loot. In their minds, at least. So even if they obtained said loot under dubious circumstances, it's now stolen property and must be gotten back and the 'thieves' punished.

I say let them fight for it. If they've been chasing it for 11 levels, they deserve a shot to pry it from the cold dead hands of some villain. Maybe create a minor crime boss villain of Union, just to serve as a side-trek from the main action of the campaign.

[Firechanter]

Here's an idea: if the items are roughly level-appropriate for the party now, why not just let the players be successful, and get the items back?
Or at least _find_ them again. They may have found their way to a magic mart. Whose proprietor may not be willing to give them back just like that, but maybe if they did a job for him...?


P.S. Am I a tyrant or just doing what I can to deal with a stubborn player?

If you are referring to the player who brought a level 13 into your level 1 party, I'd call your course of action the emergency brake. You _should_ have simply not allowed him to bring the character at all, but apparently he was just that stubborn. Note that I do not kill off PCs lightly, but in this case I can understand it, if all talking didn't help.

Edit: Would have been a classic "Rocks fall, you die".

[eggynack]

This problem, and the problem of this highly problematic player, seem to be two completely different problems. To some extent, it doesn't really matter why they want these particular items, even if it's because they're fabled for being overpowered. Any decision you make with regards to these items should thus be unrelated to the idea of yourself as a tyrant, or the opposite idea of you being a pushover. If you think it's OK for them to have these items, and everyone in the party desires them with the core of their being, I've gotta figure that giving them some leads related to them isn't the worst thing. If you just want to move forward with the plot, and see this quest as completely uninteresting, then tell them that they're gone. You could also take the middle route, and attach the items to various story aspects. Ultimately, it really just depends on what you want. Don't worry too much about it, and try to understand this case in isolation, rather than attached to unfortunate times.

[sambouchah]

are you gm'ing that game?

if yes.. then wth? you are the gm.. what you say goes. no one just "brings" someone into your game.. you tell them what is allowed and they follow it.

I am gm'ing for it. For the most part they'll follow what I tell them. He just hates rolling new characters.


Wait, I'm confused. First you say they're recently 1st level, but then you say they're 11th level?

Recently reality wise ha ha, we meet pretty often being jobless teenagers. There was probably a better wording for the sentence originally.

[Trunamer]

I am gm'ing for it. For the most part they'll follow what I tell them. He just hates rolling new characters.
Well I don't blame him for not liking chargen, 3.x is a pain that way.

But that's the buy-in. If ya wanna play, ya gotta have an allowable PC...if you as the DM want to be really nice in the future, you could give him a pregen PC though.


Recently reality wise ha ha, we meet pretty often being jobless teenagers. There was probably a better wording for the sentence originally.
Ah, got it. :)

[Slipperychicken]

What I do not understand is the fact that they are now level 11 with items rivaling that of the original and still are lusting after them. I'm not really sure how to deal with it at this point. They have zero leads as to where the items are located(sold at Union to some extraplanar being if I have to choose). Should I continuously dangle the gear in front of them to keep them moving for something, or just tell them the items are gone?


I think that the stolen loot has become an effective motivation for the party; it has them invested, and they're determined to get it back. Perhaps the main antagonist bought or acquired at least some of the loot for his own use, and maybe he upgraded an item or two.

Recovering the "Artifacts of [insert name here]" could be used as a cool subplot.

[The honest illusionist]

Reveal in story that the items into the guts of some new warforged NPC (or something) by a mad wizard, irrevocably lost in the creation of a new innocent soul. It explains where the items have gone and why they can't have them.

As for asocial players who won't take no for an answer? There's a simple answer for that: "not at my table." You're the DM. If you're doing the world building legwork for the campaign, your buddy can afford the time to roll up a new character within the rules that you've set up for everyone, or they can find some other table to play at.

No sane DM would allow that. Ever. Even if that player's a close friend, you'd be better off not playing together.

[The honest illusionist]

Well I don't blame him for not liking chargen, 3.x is a pain that way.

But that's the buy-in. If ya wanna play, ya gotta have an allowable PC...if you as the DM want to be really nice in the future, you could give him a pregen PC though.


Ah, got it. :)
Making new characters is awesome if you have access to a handbook that sorts through the good feats, spells, and PRCs. Just limit it to Core and the Completes (or whatever you're comfortable with) if you want to avoid some of the more broken combinations.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233

[Trunamer]

Making new characters is awesome if you have access to a handbook that sorts through the good feats, spells, and PRCs. Just limit it to Core and the Completes (or whatever you're comfortable with) if you want to avoid some of the more broken combinations.
Yes, splats can add to the overwhelmingness of chargen, but they're not really what makes it uncomfortably reminiscent of tax season. Ever take a look at a 3.x character sheet? Some players just don't want to deal with all those widgets.

Limiting splatbooks doesn't really solve anything for players who don't like tax forms, and makes chargen that much less fun for players who do like charop handbooks and splatbook-diving.

[Segev]

My word, man! Your players are eager to hunt these things down! You have a built-in motivator. YES, keep dangling them!

However, they're level 11. I would think about what happened to them, and make them scattered about, no longer any one person's property. Don't drop the trove on the party, no. Let them stumble across one of the items, and be able to recognize it. Let their research and study get them a lead on where "the items" went, but find only another one. Trickle them out for the next 2 levels at least. Have one that they really like to talk about - regardless of its power - be out there for 3-5 levels before they finally find it.

If they've been particularly vocal about seeking them, have a reputation develop. Some con men will approach them, trying to sell them maps or information that aren't real. Others who do have info might try to sell that, or use it to lure them into traps. Have the spread of people digging for these items cause rumors to develop around them. Have new parties of first-level characters become inspired by the idea of finding just one of them; after all, these legendary heroes seek them, and many others look for them, too.

Eventually, have there be small conspiracies around them as rumors of their power are magnified. Have some aspiring seekers hunt down the party to ask them about the items and how to find them. This can even be how they discover how far-reaching the rumors have gotten.

And then, just as the party is realizing that it's not true - that the rumors are coming from their own seeking, and that the items are nothing more special than they'd originally thought - have one piece be something plot-important. Something powerful or unique that not even the original 13th level PC knew was as special as it is. Let their initial dismissal of this become a frustration as some "foolish" powerful individual vies with them for it...only to realize that the thing really is something more than they thought.

[cerin616]

Personally, I would just tie the items in as part of the plot. Then you get to continue the story and they get to find these items one by one.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well I don't blame him for not liking chargen, 3.x is a pain that way.

But that's the buy-in. If ya wanna play, ya gotta have an allowable PC...if you as the DM want to be really nice in the future, you could give him a pregen PC though.


Ah, got it. :)

I can roll a level 1 character in 10 minutes, maybe 15 if it is a spellcaster of some sort. Character building only becomes tedius at higher levels (starting at level 6-ish IME).

And that doesn't justify the fact that he (the problem player) brought a 13th level character to a 1st level game! After being told not to, that is jut being rude and obnoxious.

[Serpentine]

Should never've let that player get away with it at all. It was level 1, not like it's that hard to make a character at that level! If that was really his problem, then you should've just made one for him and had him play that. Or just gone "nope. Make a character at the same level as everyone else, or you don't play."

Now that it's happened... Why on Earth are you resisting them? They have something they're interested in. They're actively pursuing a plot hook, and have been for 10 levels. Just give them something to chase. If that's not the plot you want to run, then either incorporate it into the one you do want to, or make it nice and easy for them so you can move on to the next bit.

[Trunamer]

I can roll a level 1 character in 10 minutes, maybe 15 if it is a spellcaster of some sort. Character building only becomes tedius at higher levels (starting at level 6-ish IME).
Vet 3.x players who like all of its niggly little widgets can make 1st-level characters fast, sure. Doesn't mean it's possible or fun for non-vets, or players who just want to play the darned game.


And that doesn't justify the fact that he (the problem player) brought a 13th level character to a 1st level game! After being told not to, that is jut being rude and obnoxious.
Agreed. No it doesn't, and yes he was.

[Slipperychicken]

Vet 3.x players who like all of its niggly little widgets can make 1st-level characters fast, sure. Doesn't mean it's possible or fun for non-vets, or players who just want to play the darned game.


I know that when I was first starting out, I hated the absurdly drawn-out character creation process. I still do, although the complexity can be nice when I'm in the mood for it.

[nedz]

Sounds like a case of when you should use MDJ — on the 1st level party :smallbiggrin:
Anyway it's too late now.

Sounds like you have player buy in for some quests, which is always nice.
Give them some leads and see if they bite.

Alternatively just drop one into some loot to test their reaction.