Every time a character dies

[Lvl45DM!]

Every time a character in this comic dies someone or other starts banging on about True Resurrection or Revive Undead. Despite the Giants repeated statements about his distaste for such things. So I'm just asking here has anyone, besides Roy obviously, anyone who isn't arguably the main freakin character, ever in this comic been brought back? To my memory there have been 2 other resurrections that have both failed. Can anyone name any other resurrections in this comic?

No Durkon doesn't count. If he is ever brought back to Durkon proper he will.

[Gift Jeraff]

The Oracle and Jirix. Twice in the latter's case, according to DStP commentary.

[Lvl45DM!]

The Oracle and Jirix. Twice in the latter's case, according to DStP commentary.

Ah well played.
Its still annoying.

Except technically they were Raised not Resurrected :smalltongue:

[Sylian]

The only cleric that we know of that's high enough level to cast True Resurrection is Redcloak, and I doubt he keeps track of Nale's status, and even if he did, why would he spend 25,000 gold to revive Nale?

[KillianHawkeye]

Except technically they were Raised not Resurrected :smalltongue:

There's really not much of a difference between the two....

[Morquard]

There was a comment about Eugene dying a few times during his adventuring days and getting raised. I think Roy's mother (forgot the name) said it, but not sure it was the online comic or SoD.

[Kareasint]

There was a comment about Eugene dying a few times during his adventuring days and getting raised. I think Roy's mother (forgot the name) said it, but not sure it was the online comic or SoD.

She said it here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html)

[Dusk Eclipse]

She said it here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html)

Not on toic, but that stips always makes me tear up.

[Nerd-o-rama]

There's also a few sight gags with graves and multiple dates of death, especially in OotPCs, but those probably don't count (except, as stated, Roy's dad's, wherein the whole point was to enforce that natural death is serious and final, as opposed to all those times he bit it while adventuring).

[Ermete]

She said it here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html)


aww - I had forgotten of this really cute scene... thanks man for reminding me! :smallsmile:

[dps]

There's also a scene with an un-named NPC going through a revolving door in the afterlife.

[rs2excelsior]

Any kind of resurrection seems to me like it would break any story. The fact that the Giant has been able to write around it is frankly one of the most impressive things about this story to me at least.

[genderlich]

Regardless of whether he's actually resurrected, we are seeing Nale again. The existence of the IFCC and Sabine pretty much mandates it, especially since they can just go over to whatever lower plane Nale finds himself in.

[Trixie]

Any kind of resurrection seems to me like it would break any story. The fact that the Giant has been able to write around it is frankly one of the most impressive things about this story to me at least.

How it was written around as opposed to ignored when convenient? :smallconfused:

The only time resurrection did anything surprising was Old Man with Cat saying 'screw it' and refusing, and even this made a lot of sense after explanation. Rest was absolutely standard D&D.

[hamishspence]

This strip:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0487.html

makes a point of saying that The Revolving Door Afterlife is not metaphorical.

[littlebum2002]

How it was written around as opposed to ignored when convenient? :smallconfused:


In #881, Roy pointed out how hard it is to find a Cleric who can cast Resurrection in this world.

Durkon was vamped in JUST enough time where he'll almost certainly never have access to 9th level spells like True Resurrection and Miracle.

V has been taken out of battle so many times she's obviously gaining experience much slower than everyone else, so will be unlikely to ever gain access to Wish.


It seems obvious that Rich is making it very hard for anyone in this storyline to have access to 9th level spells, and moderately difficult for anyone to have access to Resurrection. Since he has outright stated how much these spells hurt story-telling ability, I highly doubt that this is a coincidence.

Of course, some characters have been raised, but they haven't affected the plot much. The random adventurer going through the revolving door is a joke. So is the mention of Eugene's constant Resurrections. Jirix was only resurrected because the Giant wanted another recurring goblin character besides Redcloak, any other goblin could have easily taken his place.

Since Durkon has been destined to be a vampire from the 2nd strip, I find it very unlikely that he will be resurrected. Since Belkar will "take his last breath, ever", it seems likely he will not, either. No one will resurrect Malack; he's been dead for too long and he WAS the cleric. (Same makes it harder to resurrect Durkon). No one's going to resurrect Nale or Zz because, frankly, no one wants to. I guess Sabine could drag their bodies all over creation looking for a cleric who can do it, but I don't see that happening, again, because Rich has stated how much he hates resurrection.

[Newwby]

Although I'd wager the majority if not all were raises you can try the entire low-level complement of the Greysky Thieves Guild (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0621.html).

*edit* It actually does specify raise, my bad.

[BlackDragonKing]

I can sort of see why the Giant's not a fan of easy access to resurrection. In a game of DnD, it's a godsend, because it means you're not toast if things go wrong for your character as long as you pony up the bills, but in telling a story, it's got to be annoying looking over your own shoulder all the time going "well, would this character just get brought back to life in a bit?" It kinda cheapens scenes like Nale's death if you go into them on the assumption that it's about a 50% chance this will actually stick instead of just being "a" death.

For the most part, though, I think the Giant will avoid having too many major characters get raised from the dead to keep it suitably dramatic when someone dies. It worked for Roy because his revival was a part of a big journey to get the band back together over some pretty brutal obstacles. Nale getting to just jump out of his grave after the logical culmination of his character's journey? That seems a little more contrived to me. It could happen, but I don't think it will, as Nale staying involved in the race for the gates was certain to get him killed sooner or later anyway.

[Kawaii Soldier]

There was a comment about Eugene dying a few times during his adventuring days and getting raised. I think Roy's mother (forgot the name) said it, but not sure it was the online comic or SoD.

I think it was in Origins of PCs.

[Paseo H]

The Oracle is a near direct servant of Tiamat herself.

Jirix's resurrection was Xykon's idea but the Dark One was clearly on board with that.

[Ellye]

To be fair, Nale does have some higher-than-usual (considering 0% as the usual) narrative chance of getting resurrected, due to his unfinished plot points with Sabine and the IFCC, and also plot points regarding how Elan will deal with what just happened.

Of course, him dying and staying dead might also be exactly where those plot-threads were going all along. I'm really curious to how Sabine and Elan will deal with that.

[Joe the Rat]

... a forum thread gets its wings.

We almost need a sticky of "Things the Giant has Said are Off the Table" - like True Resurrection. Resurrection is a hard one to get done, but is available if you have the funds... and a caster. Raise Dead is fairly common in OotSWorld - or at least as common as 11th level Clerics.

For our corpse du jour, raise dead is sufficient and possible, barring destruction of the body. Sabine could arrange that. Tarquin could arrange that. Hell, Durkula can do it. He's got the (gem)stones for it. Now could is close to can, but things can happen in between. Can is a fair ways from will - motives are rather important.

Plot is important too - this is one that could go many ways. Mostly dead with a chance of raising, and a Thog Watch for the bay area.


Not on toic, but that stips always makes me tear up....and yet I always read it when it's linked.

[Nettlekid]

I didn't see anyone mention it, but Shojo said he had the Teleporting Wizard who got eaten by the giant bird Raised, so that's another one.

[Roland Itiative]

Ah well played.
Its still annoying.

Except technically they were Raised not Resurrected :smalltongue:

Nale is not beyond a simple Raise Dead, though. Whatever happens to his body in the next few pages will probably define how much of a chance he has of coming back. Sabine will definitely have an interest in bringing her lover back to life (she could just hang out with him in the lower planes, but I think seeing how he died might stir sentiments of revenge on her, and Nale will definitely be one grumpy soul, considering what happened), and Elan might feel enough sympathy towards his brother to want it as well.

[hamishspence]

I didn't see anyone mention it, but Shojo said he had the Teleporting Wizard who got eaten by the giant bird Raised, so that's another one.

He said that the clerics were on the way to raise that wizard:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0405.html

but right after that, he gets killed, and we see clerics attempting to raise him.

It's possible that those were the very same clerics that should have raised that wizard, and that the wizard never ended up raised at all.

[Valanarch]

I didn't see anyone mention it, but Shojo said he had the Teleporting Wizard who got eaten by the giant bird Raised, so that's another one.

Actually, he never got around to it. Miko killed him right as the clerics were coming to raise him. They then tried to resurrect Shojo instead, and then they were preparing for and fighting a war.

Edit: Ninja'd

[NerdyKris]

I can sort of see why the Giant's not a fan of easy access to resurrection. In a game of DnD, it's a godsend, because it means you're not toast if things go wrong for your character as long as you pony up the bills, but in telling a story, it's got to be annoying looking over your own shoulder all the time going "well, would this character just get brought back to life in a bit?" It kinda cheapens scenes like Nale's death if you go into them on the assumption that it's about a 50% chance this will actually stick instead of just being "a" death.

For the most part, though, I think the Giant will avoid having too many major characters get raised from the dead to keep it suitably dramatic when someone dies. It worked for Roy because his revival was a part of a big journey to get the band back together over some pretty brutal obstacles. Nale getting to just jump out of his grave after the logical culmination of his character's journey? That seems a little more contrived to me. It could happen, but I don't think it will, as Nale staying involved in the race for the gates was certain to get him killed sooner or later anyway.

I think that's why we saw so many members of the Linear Guild killed this time. That might even be why Rich re-used Z in the first place, to eliminate him as a potential ally that could raise Nale. Right now the only surviving member that isn't Leaky and Pompei (who both quit) is Sabine. And something is probably going to happen to keep her from raising him as well.

I haven't seen resurrection ignored in this comic either. I'd like to see anyone name one time it was "ignored". It seems to be cast fairly regularly and successfully. It was even stated that the thieve's guild would be raised, and Haley expected Crystal to be raised as well. She only killed her as a message. Shojo and the Draketooths refused, but they had good reasons to that were explained in panel when the casting failed.

[ThePhantasm]

True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.

Brought to you by the Index of the Giant's Comments (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220195).

[David Argall]

In 571, the Oracle says he will get a resurrection in 1187.

[Kid Jake]

For some reason I could see Nale working out something with the IFCC and coming back as some sort of dashing fiend to wreck Tarquin up at the least convenient moment only to get put down again soon after.

[AlexanderRM]

Any kind of resurrection seems to me like it would break any story. The fact that the Giant has been able to write around it is frankly one of the most impressive things about this story to me at least.

I wouldn't say it would break stories; the most notable effect is that it *alters* storytelling conventions from those with which we're familiar. It also happens to alter them in ways that lessen drama and things like that, but it's still possibly in most cases (such as in D&D) for a writer to ensure that a characters' death is clearly final so that the drama is appropriate. As Trixie noted, it's never been written around; it's simply not been used when raising a dead character wasn't in the Giants' plans.





I can sort of see why the Giant's not a fan of easy access to resurrection. In a game of DnD, it's a godsend, because it means you're not toast if things go wrong for your character as long as you pony up the bills, but in telling a story, it's got to be annoying looking over your own shoulder all the time going "well, would this character just get brought back to life in a bit?" It kinda cheapens scenes like Nale's death if you go into them on the assumption that it's about a 50% chance this will actually stick instead of just being "a" death.


I think you're on to an interesting distinction between writing and gaming, but have a rather odd way of expressing it. In a game like D&D, characters can die unexpectedly without the desire of either the player or the GM, so it can be nice to be able to bring back a character if you weren't done with their story. In writing a book, if you want a character to not die just yet, you can just choose to have them win a battle instead.

In telling a story, you don't have to "look over your shoulder" wondering whether a character would be resurrected: You can just decide not to have them be resurrected, and arrange their death so that them not being raised makes sense. It can, however, cheapen their death if *fans* assume that they'll be brought back to life, especially if the story is unclear about the possibility of that happening (or if a lot of fans really don't want them to die).

[rs2excelsior]

I can sort of see why the Giant's not a fan of easy access to resurrection. In a game of DnD, it's a godsend, because it means you're not toast if things go wrong for your character as long as you pony up the bills, but in telling a story, it's got to be annoying looking over your own shoulder all the time going "well, would this character just get brought back to life in a bit?" It kinda cheapens scenes like Nale's death if you go into them on the assumption that it's about a 50% chance this will actually stick instead of just being "a" death.

For the most part, though, I think the Giant will avoid having too many major characters get raised from the dead to keep it suitably dramatic when someone dies. It worked for Roy because his revival was a part of a big journey to get the band back together over some pretty brutal obstacles. Nale getting to just jump out of his grave after the logical culmination of his character's journey? That seems a little more contrived to me. It could happen, but I don't think it will, as Nale staying involved in the race for the gates was certain to get him killed sooner or later anyway.

This. It seems like the only way for a character to be totally killed off in a story where resurrection is available and not too uncommon is utter destruction of the body or killing everyone who could possibly want the person you killed raised. Dramatically, it works better if there is no chance of a character being raised. Of course, a writer can choose for someone to stay dead even if resurrection is available, but the writer should justify it somehow in-story (as I'm sure a writer of the Giant's caliber would; see Shojo's death), and such justifications can also seem contrived if they're used too often. As V said, there's no option that doesn't result in near-immediate freedom for the current recurring villains. Even the LG now is still not out of the fight. Sabine could rebuild the team. It'd take some effort, but it's not like she's got anything better to do right now.

[littlebum2002]

And more to the point, True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.

Brought to you by the Index of the Giant's Comments (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220195).

Too bad Haley didn't try to sneak a peek in the forums. Knowing True Resurrection wasn't available would've helped her in this strip. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html)

[AKA_Bait]

Let's not forget that one of the reasons that the OotS didn't kill the linear guild in a prior tangle with (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html)them was the availability of easy raise dead. It was safer to imprison them rather than risk their resurrection.

[Morthis]

In #881, Roy pointed out how hard it is to find a Cleric who can cast Resurrection in this world.

Durkon was vamped in JUST enough time where he'll almost certainly never have access to 9th level spells like True Resurrection and Miracle.

V has been taken out of battle so many times she's obviously gaining experience much slower than everyone else, so will be unlikely to ever gain access to Wish.

Only Durkon really matters here, since clerics automatically have their full spell list. It's extremely easy to keep V from using Wish, never give him the spell.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out for RC tho, since he does have access to miracle and the dark one is behind him in his quest.

[Ramien]

I think that's why we saw so many members of the Linear Guild killed this time. That might even be why Rich re-used Z in the first place, to eliminate him as a potential ally that could raise Nale. Right now the only surviving member that isn't Leaky and Pompei (who both quit) is Sabine. And something is probably going to happen to keep her from raising him as well.


You forget Hilgya. She may have been sent off on a mission much like Z was, probably off to the dwarven lands. She should certainly be capable of casting Raise Dead or Resurrection, which means all Sabine has to do is get some of Nale's corpse to the dwarven lands, right around the same time as all the other groups get there, if not before, thanks to some of her travel abilities.

For that matter, I'd love to see how she'd react to the new Durkon... and how his new outlook on life will cause him to react to her.

[Emulgator]

Amun-Zora, Sabine, Hilgya... Seems like a start of a good team.