Tarquin will kill Xykon!!!

[Conte_Vincero]

So, with Tarquin getting more and more rapped up in this story, here's an outrageous prediction, that he will kill Kykon.

I know Xykon is the ultimately powerfull baddie, but we've already seen that he's not the main bad guy, but we've already seen that Redcloak is using him, thus making Redcloak the main villain. Xykon is just a loudmouthed comic relief character. Apart from providing extra oomph, and a cover for Redcloak, he serves no purpose in this story. Therefore, while his death will be momentus, it will not end the story.

Why Tarquin? Tarquin said that when villains fight villains, it's a toss up. He wants to send Elan ahead while he prepares to get every advantage possible to make sure that when he gets himself involved again, he will be in an untouchable position of superiority. Then he will jump in, possibly at the gate, maybe even afterwards, and be the only person ever to fight xykon with the element of surprise AND adaquate preparation.

Anyone else think this will happen?

[The Pilgrim]

Yeah, and Xykon comes from our world.

[Heksefatter]

I totally do NOT see Tarquin killing Xykon. Xykon should never be underestimated, and he has Tarquin seriously outgunned.

Much more importantly, I think Tarquin's arch is ending soon. With the current book. The character may survive and he may even be a background character, but I simply don't see the next book featuring Tarquin as prominently as this one. And that would be the case if he killed Xykon.

Also, Xykon is the enemy of the Order of the Stick and Roy in particular. They deserve to defeat him.

[smuchmuch]

I could totaly see Xykon killing Taquin, though.
With a little 'why you suck' speech as he casualy meteor swarms tarquin's army intothe ground.

[Synesthesy]

I think that Redcloak will kill Xykon to finally revenge Right-eye death. Not Tarquin.

[Malistrae]

I don't think it is possible for Tarquin to defeat Xykon. He simply has too much firepower, very good defenses ( for example being undead negates a lot of stuff (though not all) that psions, like Laurin can do to you) and immortality.
I'd wager that Xykon could take down the three empires (or at least their capitals) in a few days at most. He simply doesn't care enough to do it and lacks ambition.
SoD spoiler:
Remember, he is only following Redcloak's plan because he had no big, evil scheme of his own and he was bored.

[maxi]

Tarquin could kill Xykon.
Well, maybe not in single combat, but he is certainly capable of engineering Xykon's demise.

Let me put it this way, if Tarquin cannot arrange Xykon's destruction, who can?

[Xelbiuj]

Tarquin could kill Xykon.
Well, maybe not in single combat, but he is certainly capable of engineering Xykon's demise.

Let me put it this way, if Tarquin cannot arrange Xykon's destruction, who can?

Redcloak, the Order, possibly the MitD and the remaining members of the Sapphire Guard in unison.

Tarquin is more or less irrelevant in the gate struggle and if he appears again, he'll get Worfed. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect)

[Reathin]

Even if Tarquin was physically capable of destroying Xykon, he wouldn't do it. It's not his narritive role. If he tried, he knows he'd get stomped to reinforce just how monstrously strong the Big Bad is (not that we don't already believe that, of course).

[Conte_Vincero]

But is Xykon the "big Bad". At the moment he is just tagging along because he is bored. Certainly he is dangerous and powerful, but compared to what Redcloak is planning to do, the damage he does is minuscule. If Tarquin has plans for the world behind the rift, which seems possible (I don't buy the "Just for dramatic purpose" line), then that elevates his villain level from "minor level boss" to competing for the final round.

Remember that Xykon has no plan for conquering the world. He is part of Redcloak's plan, but without that, then he's nothing more than a glorified bandit.

[Reathin]

But is Xykon the "big Bad". At the moment he is just tagging along because he is bored. Certainly he is dangerous and powerful, but compared to what Redcloak is planning to do, the damage he does is minuscule. If Tarquin has plans for the world behind the rift, which seems possible (I don't buy the "Just for dramatic purpose" line), then that elevates his villain level from "minor level boss" to competing for the final round.

Remember that Xykon has no plan for conquering the world. He is part of Redcloak's plan, but without that, then he's nothing more than a glorified bandit.

Except that Xykon has explicitly stated that he intends to conquer the world (several times I believe, but remember the reference to smelling the incense of his coronation to world emperor?). Redcloak's goals are actually quite reasonable (equality, NOT dominance, oddly), it's just his methods that's the problem. Xykon wants to use the same method, but to blackmail the world into being his toy.

[Conte_Vincero]

Except that Xykon has explicitly stated that he intends to conquer the world (several times I believe, but remember the reference to smelling the incense of his coronation to world emperor?). Redcloak's goals are actually quite reasonable (equality, NOT dominance, oddly), it's just his methods that's the problem. Xykon wants to use the same method, but to blackmail the world into being his toy.

Except that Xykon can't, he doesn't understand the ritual, and can't manipulate the divine half to give control to him. Certainly he plans to control the world, but at the moment he doesn't have any capacity to do so.

[Xelbiuj]

Except that Xykon can't, he doesn't understand the ritual, and can't manipulate the divine half to give control to him. Certainly he plans to control the world, but at the moment he doesn't have any capacity to do so.

The old fashion way. Destroying cities and enslaving baddies as minions.

[Valanarch]

Tarquin will probably be there at the final battle. However, I see his final role as leaping in front of a meteor swarm that would kill Elan, not as actually killing Xykon. That is Roy's job.

[This be Richard]

Following the rules of drama, the safest bet is, regrettably, that Xykon will kill Tarquin. That outcome frees the hero from needing to kill his own father with no loss of pathos, particularly if Tarquin bites it in a way that serves to protect Elan.

It's sad to think about, though. Tarquin has been my favorite character in the comic for a while now, and it'll be a real shame to lose him.

[Aolbain]

I could totaly see Xykon killing Taquin, though.
With a little 'why you suck' speech as he casualy meteor swarms tarquin's army intothe ground.

I want that to happen to much!

[masamune1]

Except that Xykon can't, he doesn't understand the ritual, and can't manipulate the divine half to give control to him. Certainly he plans to control the world, but at the moment he doesn't have any capacity to do so.

I wouldn't underestimate him that much.

I totally expect Redcloak to reveal his betrayal and give an epic rant to Xykon about how he is a vile, disgusting creature that Redcloak has played like a piano, but has just outlived its usefulness now that the final Gate is in Redcloaks control. Redcloak then takes out Xykon's phylactery, declares it to be the genuine one and the one Xykon just wasted hours putting behind countless magical traps and barriers in another dimension a useless fake, and then destroys the thing after some amazing one-liner worthy of the best villains.

And it doesn't work, because Xykon was onto him the whole time. Maybe Tsukiko then is revealed to be alive and faking her death; Xykon heard the whole thing, and Tsukiko got the ritual before Redcloak "killed" her. Xykon gives another, much shorter speech explaining why Redcloak sucks, then cripples or kills him.

That's what I expect to happen. I don't think Redcloak is as much in control as he believes.

And besides, Xykon is an Epic-level Chaotic Evil Lich. Saying he doesn't have the means to take over the world underestimates how much of a threat he is. Even without the Gates, he could probably take a decent shot at it.

[Ridureyu]

My outrageous prediction is that Taruin will die when things suddenly don't go according to plan, and he will deny that they are going wrong up until the Xs show in his eyes.

[masamune1]

Actually, I can see Tarquin and Xykon teaming up.

Both plotting betrayal, of course. But if Redcloak / Xykon gets a hold of the Gate, then that is power Tarquin can access. By joining forces with the ones who control it.

Especially since the world-destroying abomination everyone expects to find in there seems to have gone missing, which puts a bit of a cramp in Team Evils plans. They need a new angle and / or the time or means to investigate, something Tarquin can deliver.

[Obscure Blade]

Even if Tarquin was physically capable of destroying Xykon, he wouldn't do it. It's not his narritive role. If he tried, he knows he'd get stomped to reinforce just how monstrously strong the Big Bad is (not that we don't already believe that, of course).
Yeah, Tarquin will take one look at Xykon and realize that.

About the only way I can see Tarquin deliberately trying to kill Xykon (in person; I can see him working to help destroy Xykon indirectly at a remove) is if it's him-or-Xykon and he has no choice.

Here's a scenario I could see him being outright enthusiastic about. It somehow comes down to a situation where Tarquin can sacrifice himself to kill Xykon, or the world is destroyed. Tarquin leaps for it - he'll die anyway if he does nothing, and it's the dramatic, legend making death he wants! The villain "redeems" himself at the last moment to save the world - he'll love the narrative.

Tarquin: "I lived in luxury as a villain for decades, and I get to die as a world savior! I'll be remembered forever! They'll build shrines to me!!"

[Ridureyu]

I think if Tarquin tried to kill Xykon, he'd learn a very valuable lesson about what happens when you're a second-stringer villain who takes on the big bad...

...A big bad who took out most-powerful-in-the-universe V, who flattened pretty much all the paladins in the world, and who regularly makes the Dark One's chief servant his lapdog.

[Kish]

but we've already seen that he's not the main bad guy,
I formally disassociate myself from this We.

[BrometheusJones]

If anyone could do it, single handedly even, it would be Tarquin. I dont think a 1 on 1 would be guaranteed... but if he and his epic level crew joined together with the intention of killed Xykon, I dont think there would be any non-trivial chance that Xykon+Redcloak could survive, especially if they were surprised.

I dont think thats in the story though. Xykon is the OOTS thing to deal with, despite the potential for Tarquin and crew to make short work of him, if he chose to do it... which it doesnt seem he will.

They all have "empires" to run, and that sort of thing. No time to adventure anymore :smallsmile:

[Ridureyu]

If anyone could do it, single handedly even, it would be Tarquin. I dont think a 1 on 1 would be guaranteed... but if he and his epic level crew joined together with the intention of killed Xykon, I dont think there would be any non-trivial chance that Xykon+Redcloak could survive, especially if they were surprised.

I dont think thats in the story though. Xykon is the OOTS thing to deal with, despite the potential for Tarquin and crew to make short work of him, if he chose to do it... which it doesnt seem he will.

They all have "empires" to run, and that sort of thing. No time to adventure anymore :smallsmile:



Remember how fused-V was so powerful that he could have easily flattened Xykon? Or how the Azure paladins had it handled?

Tarquin is the new Miko. A heavily popular, super-competant ultra-debated antagonist whom everybody thinks is invincible, but will end up going down in flames after he has played his part.

[BrometheusJones]

Remember how fused-V was so powerful that he could have easily flattened Xykon? Or how the Azure paladins had it handled?

Tarquin is the new Miko. A heavily popular, super-competant ultra-debated antagonist whom everybody thinks is invincible, but will end up going down in flames after he has played his part.

I agree that story-wise that might be likely.

I was coming from the angle in the first paragraph that if this was not a scripted story, I think Tarquin would probably, if he really desired it, beat Xykon.

But do they even know about each other at this point :smallconfused:

[Morthis]

If anyone could do it, single handedly even, it would be Tarquin. I dont think a 1 on 1 would be guaranteed... but if he and his epic level crew joined together with the intention of killed Xykon, I dont think there would be any non-trivial chance that Xykon+Redcloak could survive, especially if they were surprised.

I dont think thats in the story though. Xykon is the OOTS thing to deal with, despite the potential for Tarquin and crew to make short work of him, if he chose to do it... which it doesnt seem he will.

They all have "empires" to run, and that sort of thing. No time to adventure anymore :smallsmile:

What makes you think his crew is epic? I can't think of any indication we've seen that they're epic. Heck Malack failed his dispel check against Durkon, who then called him out on spending too much time studying instead of adventuring.

[JBiddles]

Remember how fused-V was so powerful that he could have easily flattened Xykon? Or how the Azure paladins had it handled?

Tarquin is the new Miko. A heavily popular, super-competant ultra-debated antagonist whom everybody thinks is invincible, but will end up going down in flames after he has played his part.


Xykon isn't invincible. Dorukan's ward killed him in seconds, Soon's ghost wiped the floor with him, and Darth Suvie might well have killed him if not for, you know, being sleep-deprived, traumatised, weak to Energy Drain, bound to two damned souls and too arrogant to think straight. Xykon is an incredibly powerful villain, with luck on his side, insane Charisma and powerful friends, but he isn't God.

If anybody who isn't the Order or Redcloak kills Xykon, it'll likely be Tarquin. I highly doubt it'll happen, but I think the Giant could pull it off if it did - it'd be a great way to show off Tarquin's planning and intelligence, along with foreshadowing in terms of how Tarquin's first domination attempt went.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png "You see, Xykon, the problem with trying to take over the world directly is that everyone - Good, Neutral, Evil, whatever - will put aside everything to stop you. You make yourself a common enemy, and that's the one thing that will get you killed by everybody and their dog. "

[Kish]

What makes you think his crew is epic? I can't think of any indication we've seen that they're epic. Heck Malack failed his dispel check against Durkon, who then called him out on spending too much time studying instead of adventuring.
Technically Malack's level adjustment from being a vampire lizardfolk would boost a 12th-level cleric into early-epic.

The reasoning chain that the rest of Tarquin's party is likely all the same ECL as Malack, only for at least some of them it's probably actually from levels, is at least a great deal stronger than "he's got to be epic because he's so cool." On the other hand...I said early epic. Xykon and his 12th-level spell slots are pretty thoroughly advanced epic.

[Harbinger]

So, with Tarquin getting more and more rapped up in this story, here's an outrageous prediction, that he will kill Kykon.

I know Xykon is the ultimately powerfull baddie, but we've already seen that he's not the main bad guy, but we've already seen that Redcloak is using him, thus making Redcloak the main villain. Xykon is just a loudmouthed comic relief character. Apart from providing extra oomph, and a cover for Redcloak, he serves no purpose in this story. Therefore, while his death will be momentus, it will not end the story.

Why Tarquin? Tarquin said that when villains fight villains, it's a toss up. He wants to send Elan ahead while he prepares to get every advantage possible to make sure that when he gets himself involved again, he will be in an untouchable position of superiority. Then he will jump in, possibly at the gate, maybe even afterwards, and be the only person ever to fight xykon with the element of surprise AND adaquate preparation.

Anyone else think this will happen?

This will never happen. Mechanically, Xykon has at least ten levels on Tarquin. He could effortlessly destroy Tarquin and probably the rest of his team as well by himself. Story wise, Xykon has been around longer and is a more important character (and yes, he IS the Big Bad, the only person we've heard this "Redcloak is using Xykon as a puppet" story from is Redcloak himself, and he's not exactly the most reliable source). Character wise, Tarquin has no reason to directly attack Xykon and no reason to think he would last more than a round against an epic lich sorcerer.

It's growing increasingly likely though, in my opinion, that the opposite will happen, that Xykon will kill Tarquin. Think about it, they're exact opposites. Tarquin manipulates, strategies and plans out his every move ahead of time, and has an agenda. Xykon has no goal other than alleviating boredom, and despises elaborate plans. It would make sense for Elan and Tarquin's struggle as well: if Elan kills Tarquin, he gets to be a legend, if Xykon kills Tarquin, he gets to be a minor villain in someone else's story.

[hobo386]

Well guys, we all know Tarquin is just one big star wars reference.

Since he's Vader, Xykon is obviously Palpatine.

And this is how it will end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXp8T097vjc

[WindStruck]

What if....

Xykon knows Redcloak's been plotting to betray him the whole time?

[Valanarch]

This will never happen. Mechanically, Xykon has at least ten levels on Tarquin. He could effortlessly destroy Tarquin and probably the rest of his team as well by himself. Story wise, Xykon has been around longer and is a more important character (and yes, he IS the Big Bad, the only person we've heard this "Redcloak is using Xykon as a puppet" story from is Redcloak himself, and he's not exactly the most reliable source). Character wise, Tarquin has no reason to directly attack Xykon and no reason to think he would last more than a round against an epic lich sorcerer.

It's growing increasingly likely though, in my opinion, that the opposite will happen, that Xykon will kill Tarquin. Think about it, they're exact opposites. Tarquin manipulates, strategies and plans out his every move ahead of time, and has an agenda. Xykon has no goal other than alleviating boredom, and despises elaborate plans. It would make sense for Elan and Tarquin's struggle as well: if Elan kills Tarquin, he gets to be a legend, if Xykon kills Tarquin, he gets to be a minor villain in someone else's story.

I believe that Tarquin could last for quite a while against Xykon. We have no proof that Xykon is above 21st level and Tarquin is pretty powerful. If Roy could survive a few rounds against Xykon in Azure City, I bet that Tatquin could last at least 10.

However, this won't happen. Roy will kill Xykon. It is his destiny. What I hope is that Tarquin will leap in front of a Meteor Swarm meant for Elan and die a heroic death.

[Porthos]

What if....

Xykon knows Redcloak's been plotting to betray him the whole time?

I'd be a little surpised if Xykon doesn't at least suspect it.

Not Knowing and Not Caring, after all. :smallamused:


I believe that Tarquin could last for quite a while against Xykon. We have no proof that Xykon is above 21st level

Maximized Energy Drain is a 12th level Spell Slot. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html)

Those are hard to get for 21st level Sorcerers. :smallwink:

ETA:: Yes, there are workarounds. No there isn't a consensus. At least the last time I checked over at the CL&G thread. :smallwink:

[Necrus Philius]

Why can't Redcloak be the big bad and Xykon just be his dragon (in narrative terms the physical obstacle employed by the villain against the heroes). Redcloak at the end of the day is the one using xykon, not the other way around.

[Porthos]

Redcloak at the end of the day is the one using xykon, not the other way around.

Why not both?

No, really, why can't both characters be using the other?

[Morthis]

Technically Malack's level adjustment from being a vampire lizardfolk would boost a 12th-level cleric into early-epic.

The reasoning chain that the rest of Tarquin's party is likely all the same ECL as Malack, only for at least some of them it's probably actually from levels, is at least a great deal stronger than "he's got to be epic because he's so cool." On the other hand...I said early epic. Xykon and his 12th-level spell slots are pretty thoroughly advanced epic.

Maybe I am underestimating how strong a vampire is but I just have a hard time imagining that Malack with his +9 level adjustment would actually be that useful in a party 9 levels higher than him, especially if they're epic and he's nowhere near. I always figured it would put the rest of his party in the mid-high teens.

[Ridureyu]

However, this won't happen. Roy will kill Xykon. It is his destiny. What I hope is that Tarquin will leap in front of a Meteor Swarm meant for Elan and die a heroic death.


Why do you want that? I want Tarquin to die a failure, and in such a way that it's all his fault and he can't deny it.

[Ramien]

Why do you want that? I want Tarquin to die a failure, and in such a way that it's all his fault and he can't deny it.

I can't agree with the general sentiment any more strongly. Ever since the first duel with Elan, my hopes for Tarquin have been to have Elan take away his legend right in front of his eyes. I don't care how epic the final duel between them would be, it would still be a success for Tarquin, because of that, no matter the way in which he finally lost such a duel.

And I love Tarquin as a character. He's been one of the most engaging Evil characters in the series, and I think the way he killed Nale was an amazingly awesome means of saying 'be careful what you wish for.' But Elan, can't let him win on any terms other than 'at least I had fun while it lasted.' Anything more would be a waste of Elan's character growth so far, and I think that Tarquin's death will come from decisions Elan makes, but not from Elan's own hands.

[Obscure Blade]

Well guys, we all know Tarquin is just one big star wars reference.As I recall he's also an ancient Roman reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Tarquinius_Superbus).

[Valanarch]

Why do you want that? I want Tarquin to die a failure, and in such a way that it's all his fault and he can't deny it.

Because, I want Tarquin to have a climactic death. However, I want Elan to beat Tarquin, which means that Tarquin would have to die as a hero. If Tarquin died as a hero, he would die as a legend, but he wouldn't inspire more evil overlords in the future. It would also give him a chance to tell Elan that he was right on his deathbed and it would give him one last Star Wars reference before he died.

[Roland Itiative]

If Tarquin kills Xykon, then everyone is still trapped inside one of Girard's illusions :smalltongue:

[Kish]

It does occur to me that I doubt Tarquin could ever have escaped from the rune trap without help.

Elan knows his family won't suddenly reform. Nale knew Elan won't stay put for as long as he wants to monologue at him. But for Tarquin, "Wait, this isn't right" is triggered by not getting exactly what he wants, not by getting it.

[Draz74]

I know Xykon is the ultimately powerfull baddie, but we've already seen that he's not the main bad guy, but we've already seen that Redcloak is using him, thus making Redcloak the main villain. Xykon is just a loudmouthed comic relief character. Apart from providing extra oomph, and a cover for Redcloak, he serves no purpose in this story.
That's what he wants you to think. Even what he's convinced Redcloak to think (some of the time. Redcloak's claims of control to Tsukiko were clearly bravado, in part, since he expresses a good deal more caution when talking to Jirix).

But one of Xykon's favorite strategies is to make people think that he's dumber or less emotionally invested than he actually is. It's all a big bluff. And I think when it comes down to it, Xykon will still be the "main" bad guy of the story (even if Redcloak eventually succeeds at betraying him).

Start of Darkness shows Xykon pursuing the Gate quest independent of Redcloak, for a time. It also makes it clear that Xykon has at least considered the possibility of Redcloak betraying him. Don't fall for his "just a loudmouthed comic relief" act. :smalltongue:


Redcloak's goals are actually quite reasonable (equality, NOT dominance, oddly), it's just his methods that's the problem.

Hmmmm, you have more trust than I do in

the Dark One being completely open with Redcloak about his long-term aspirations
the Dark One and Redcloak being uncorruptible by power if they do achieve "equality."

[The Oni]

Tarquin will probably avoid Xykon like the plague TBH. Villains fighting villains is always a toss-up, remember? He'll have no plot armor. Everyone's evil or at least antagonistic so it doesn't matter who dies, and if Tarquin dies to Xykon (another villain) it'd ruin his plan for literary immortality.

Also, since he's a powerful fighter Xykon may rez him into a minion, which we're reasonably sure he doesn't want because he won't be able to continue orchestrating his own story. And he was best buds with Malack, so if he wanted to be an intelligent undead he already would be. He never makes plans that are more complicated than they need to be.

[Knight.Anon]

That's one of the few things that Tarquin wouldn't do. If Roy botched it again, then he might roll up his sleeves and go to work. Tarquin respects epic moments too much to tread on it unnecessarily. He would congratulate who ever won then make his move.

[CombatOwl]

I think if Tarquin tried to kill Xykon, he'd learn a very valuable lesson about what happens when you're a second-stringer villain who takes on the big bad...

...A big bad who took out most-powerful-in-the-universe V, who flattened pretty much all the paladins in the world, and who regularly makes the Dark One's chief servant his lapdog.

Though it has become evident that V lost due to his own hubris (seriously, he lost to a well timed dispel magic spell and Xykon's lich abilities--not some overwhelming heretofore unmentioned epic power), that the paladins were constraining themselves quite a bit (and very nearly killed both Xykon and Redcloak during that reveal), and that Redcloak is only going along with this because he gets what he wants.

Honestly, I don't consider it beyond the realm of possibility (what with the giant going all GRRM on us all the sudden) for Elan to die to Xykon, and for Tarquin to put Xykon into the ground permanently out of revenge (and to recover the body).

[DarrenLocke]

I seriously don't think Tarquin's menace will outlive the end of this plot arc, never mind facing off against Xykon.

[CombatOwl]

I seriously don't think Tarquin's menace will outlive the end of this plot arc, never mind facing off against Xykon.

There has been way too much investment in Team Tarquin to let it drop at this point.

[strijder20]

Yeah, and Elan will abuse the Rift to dominate the world.

In all seriousness, if he would, then that would piss off a lot of people. In all 'standard' stories the hero is supposed to kill the main baddie. The most logical choice is Roy, another option is Redcloak as that would make him the main baddie which one of the OotS can kill or maybe he will just fall into the rift without a clear killer. But Tarquin... as much as I love that guy, I doubt he'll do any more killing of protagonists in this comic.

Except maybe Belkar - his time is running out, isn't it?

[Turin_19]

Every time I see a post like this I think "oh man, it would be so cool!" then "oh crap, they shouldn't have said it, now the giant won't make it happen! (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq8)".

[DarrenLocke]

There has been way too much investment in Team Tarquin to let it drop at this point.

You could have said the same thing about the Linear Guild only a few strips ago. Investments do, after all, have to pay off at some point. I suppose we won't really know whether Tarquin's defeat (not necessarily death) will be sooner or later until it happens. Though I can confidently speculate that he's not going to be the Anti-Villain many seem to be building him up as.

[Turin_19]

And by the way, I think it's totally plausible that Tarquin kills Xykon.

Redcloak has already stolen a lot of Xykon's 'badassness'. Tarquin could also do that.

Seen there are so many sides involved that there could be a real gigantic war at the last gate.

[Super Evil User]

What if....

Xykon knows Redcloak's been plotting to betray him the whole time?

He probably does, and I can't wait to see the look on Wrong-Eye's face when he says so.

[CombatOwl]

Every time I see a post like this I think "oh man, it would be so cool!" then "oh crap, they shouldn't have said it, now the giant won't make it happen! (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq8)".
Well, if we keep suggesting crazy stuff, then what he finally arrives at will have to be truly insane.

[bravebonebook]

#1: Is Tarquin a fighter? Is Xykon a sorcerer?
#2: Is Tarquin a human? Is Xykon a lich?

In the world of D&D, those two points right there end the discussion for me. One on one, Xykon trumps Tarquin.

[DarrenLocke]

#1: Is Tarquin a fighter? Is Xykon a sorcerer?
#2: Is Tarquin a human? Is Xykon a lich?

In the world of D&D, those two points right there end the discussion for me. One on one, Xykon trumps Tarquin.

Speaking as someone who suspects Tarquin and Xykon will never even get the chance to lay eyes on one another...

That argument assumes that Tarquin and Xykon get locked into an air-tight, featureless room together, where no-one and nothing else can affect the outcome. Also that OOtS strictly adheres to D&D mechanics.

[Super Evil User]

I really don't want Tarquin to kill Xykon. That'd veer him straight into Mary Sue territory.

[hobo386]

#1: Is Tarquin a fighter? Is Xykon a sorcerer?
#2: Is Tarquin a human? Is Xykon a lich?

In the world of D&D, those two points right there end the discussion for me. One on one, Xykon trumps Tarquin.

Well, Tarquin still does have at least as much wealth as Xykon, probably more. And at least some of his high level adventuring party backing him up. And Xykon is not highly optimized, whereas Tarquin is genre savvy.

But then Xykon also has Redcloak, and the MiTD, which could go either way in the fight.

I'm still putting my money on Xykon, but Tarquin is definitely still a substantial threat to Xykon. Hell, Xykon even might gain a level when he wins!

(Also, we have not confirmed that Tarquin is a fighter. It's likely, but there's still a good argument for him being a warblade, or something multiclassed to squeeze a bit of extra efficiency out of his build.)

[Irenaeus]

That's what he wants you to think. Even what he's convinced Redcloak to think (some of the time. Redcloak's claims of control to Tsukiko were clearly bravado, in part, since he expresses a good deal more caution when talking to Jirix).

But one of Xykon's favorite strategies is to make people think that he's dumber or less emotionally invested than he actually is. It's all a big bluff. And I think when it comes down to it, Xykon will still be the "main" bad guy of the story (even if Redcloak eventually succeeds at betraying him).

Start of Darkness shows Xykon pursuing the Gate quest independent of Redcloak, for a time. It also makes it clear that Xykon has at least considered the possibility of Redcloak betraying him. Don't fall for his "just a loudmouthed comic relief" act. :smalltongue:
I subscribe to this view for the reason that the readers have been updated a whole lot more about what Readcloak is up to than Xykon, and I assume the cards we haven't seen yet are the strongest, narratively speaking.

Also, even though Redcloak has been subjected to punitive lessons in the past, he seems to forget very quickly that Xykon is capable of reason, secrecy and preparation.

[Doxkid]

They won't ever meet, but it's a nice idea. If Giant actually did use them against each other we'd probably see Xykon win, what with him being a Wizard-Slayer and all.

Xykon's whole MO is killing people who plan too much. Usually by muscling that person into the ground with spells and stomping their face over and over with magic.

[137beth]

Xykon will kill Tarquin.

See, if Elan beats Tarquin on his own, then Tarquin wins by becoming a legendary villain defeated by his heroic son.
Thus, Elan will arrange for Tarquin to meet Xykon. Xykon will kill Tarquin, and Tarquin will be only a foot-note in history: the minor general who was easily disposed of by the far more powerful and evil villain.