ksbsnowowl
2013-08-21, 10:24 AM
So I'm changing a few things in an 5th and 6th level adventure that I'm running. The climactic battle has the PC's facing off against a CR 5 Young Green Dragon, along with an encampment of humanoid mooks. The total EL is 10 (IIRC). The encampment is in a wide open space, so the dragon can really make use of his fly speed to strafe the party with breath attacks.
I want to change the dragon to a demon. And I think I found the perfect one to use, the Aspect of Chernovog from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Except it is CR 9...
I don't intend to break the rules and give you his whole stat block, but I do need to give you a few items for purposes of this conversation. I also intend to give him the Air Heritage feat from the Planar Handbook, which will increase his fly speed to 70 feet.
Aspect of Chernovog:
10 HD Large Outsider (95 hp)
Fly 40 ft. (average)
AC 22, touch 11
DR 5/epic
Immune to electricity and poison
Resistant to Acid, Cold, and Fire
2 claws +15, and bite +10
He also has Eldritch Blast at +12 for 5d6 points of damage.
Also a few Eldritch Essences, and most importantly, Eldritch Chain, which would allow him to strike a target, and then possibly hit two secondary targets for half damage.
As a Large creature, he does have reach.
CR 5 Young Green Dragon:
11 HD Medium Dragon (93 hp)
Fly 150 ft (poor)
AC 20, touch 10
Immune to Acid
Bite +14, 2 claws +9, 2 wings +9
Breath weapon: 30 ft. cone of acid gas, 6d6 acid damage, Ref DC 17 half.
Then we compare to other dragons in the CR 5 and 6 range:
CR 6 Young Blue Dragon:
12 HD Medium Dragon (102 hp)
Fly 150 feet (poor)
AC 21, touch 10
Immune to Electricity
Bite +15, 2 Claws +10, 2 Wings +10
Breath Weapon: 60 ft Line of electricity, 6d8, Ref DC 18 half.
CR 5 Very Young Red Dragon:
10 HD Large Dragon (95 hp)
Fly 150 ft (poor)
AC 18, touch 9
Immune to Fire (Vulnerable to Cold)
Bite +14, 2 Claws +9, 2 Wings +9
Breath Weapon: 40 ft. cone of Fire, 4d10 damage, Ref DC 18 half
10 foot reach with his bite
I do get that the effectively unbeatable DR plays into it quite a bit, as do the elemental resistances.
The Eldritch Chain will act somewhat like a breath weapon in its usage, though it does have the advantage of no recharge time. (But since I have to "waste" a feat on Air Heritage to up his speed, the dragons could "waste" a feat on Recover Breath, getting the average recharge time down to letting them use it every other round*). The edritch chain will deal an average of 17.5 damage to the first target, and 8.75 damage to the secondary targets (if he doesn't miss; a miss stops all further chaining). The breath weapons of the Green, Blue, and Red average 21, 27, and 22 damage each. They can be resisted with Resist/Protection from Energy, but one person making their save doesn't prevent the others from taking damage.
The Aspect of Chernovog has reach, while only the Red has reach amongst the dragons.
Here is what I'm thinking of doing:
Change the DR to something piddly, and to a material the PC's could overcome (DR 2/Cold Iron), and reduce its size to Medium (-8 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Con, -2 Nat Armor, +1 to AC/Attack), as the Monster Manual's rules on advancing monsters indicates a size change from Medium to Large constitutes a +1 to CR.
If I did those things, the Aspect of Chernovog would look more like this:
10 HD Medium Outsider (75 hp)
Fly 40 ft. (average)
AC 22, touch 13
DR 2/Cold Iron
Immune to electricity and poison
Resistance 10 to Acid, Cold, and Fire
2 claws +12, and bite +7
He also has Eldritch Blast at +14 for 5d6 points of damage.
Also a few Eldritch Essences, and most importantly, Eldritch Chain, which would allow him to strike a target, and then possibly hit two secondary targets for half damage.
He would not have reach.
Those two things probably result in his CR dropping to 7, and if my PC's are maybe 7th level by the time they come to the climax, I think that would suffice.
Thoughts? Critiques?
*According to the Draconomicon, a roll of 1 means the dragon can use the breath weapon again the very next round; with Rapid Breath a roll of 0 or 1 would mean it can use its breath two rounds in a row.
I want to change the dragon to a demon. And I think I found the perfect one to use, the Aspect of Chernovog from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Except it is CR 9...
I don't intend to break the rules and give you his whole stat block, but I do need to give you a few items for purposes of this conversation. I also intend to give him the Air Heritage feat from the Planar Handbook, which will increase his fly speed to 70 feet.
Aspect of Chernovog:
10 HD Large Outsider (95 hp)
Fly 40 ft. (average)
AC 22, touch 11
DR 5/epic
Immune to electricity and poison
Resistant to Acid, Cold, and Fire
2 claws +15, and bite +10
He also has Eldritch Blast at +12 for 5d6 points of damage.
Also a few Eldritch Essences, and most importantly, Eldritch Chain, which would allow him to strike a target, and then possibly hit two secondary targets for half damage.
As a Large creature, he does have reach.
CR 5 Young Green Dragon:
11 HD Medium Dragon (93 hp)
Fly 150 ft (poor)
AC 20, touch 10
Immune to Acid
Bite +14, 2 claws +9, 2 wings +9
Breath weapon: 30 ft. cone of acid gas, 6d6 acid damage, Ref DC 17 half.
Then we compare to other dragons in the CR 5 and 6 range:
CR 6 Young Blue Dragon:
12 HD Medium Dragon (102 hp)
Fly 150 feet (poor)
AC 21, touch 10
Immune to Electricity
Bite +15, 2 Claws +10, 2 Wings +10
Breath Weapon: 60 ft Line of electricity, 6d8, Ref DC 18 half.
CR 5 Very Young Red Dragon:
10 HD Large Dragon (95 hp)
Fly 150 ft (poor)
AC 18, touch 9
Immune to Fire (Vulnerable to Cold)
Bite +14, 2 Claws +9, 2 Wings +9
Breath Weapon: 40 ft. cone of Fire, 4d10 damage, Ref DC 18 half
10 foot reach with his bite
I do get that the effectively unbeatable DR plays into it quite a bit, as do the elemental resistances.
The Eldritch Chain will act somewhat like a breath weapon in its usage, though it does have the advantage of no recharge time. (But since I have to "waste" a feat on Air Heritage to up his speed, the dragons could "waste" a feat on Recover Breath, getting the average recharge time down to letting them use it every other round*). The edritch chain will deal an average of 17.5 damage to the first target, and 8.75 damage to the secondary targets (if he doesn't miss; a miss stops all further chaining). The breath weapons of the Green, Blue, and Red average 21, 27, and 22 damage each. They can be resisted with Resist/Protection from Energy, but one person making their save doesn't prevent the others from taking damage.
The Aspect of Chernovog has reach, while only the Red has reach amongst the dragons.
Here is what I'm thinking of doing:
Change the DR to something piddly, and to a material the PC's could overcome (DR 2/Cold Iron), and reduce its size to Medium (-8 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Con, -2 Nat Armor, +1 to AC/Attack), as the Monster Manual's rules on advancing monsters indicates a size change from Medium to Large constitutes a +1 to CR.
If I did those things, the Aspect of Chernovog would look more like this:
10 HD Medium Outsider (75 hp)
Fly 40 ft. (average)
AC 22, touch 13
DR 2/Cold Iron
Immune to electricity and poison
Resistance 10 to Acid, Cold, and Fire
2 claws +12, and bite +7
He also has Eldritch Blast at +14 for 5d6 points of damage.
Also a few Eldritch Essences, and most importantly, Eldritch Chain, which would allow him to strike a target, and then possibly hit two secondary targets for half damage.
He would not have reach.
Those two things probably result in his CR dropping to 7, and if my PC's are maybe 7th level by the time they come to the climax, I think that would suffice.
Thoughts? Critiques?
*According to the Draconomicon, a roll of 1 means the dragon can use the breath weapon again the very next round; with Rapid Breath a roll of 0 or 1 would mean it can use its breath two rounds in a row.