Tarquins party TPK

[DiamondHooHaMan]

I don't know how or why. or even most of the people involved name's. but i am pretty sure that by the end of the story, every member of Tarquins gang will be dead. Because if he has no one to manipulate the three empires with behind the scenes, his plan falls apart quickly.

new theory. Elan is going to make sure that Tarquin looses his party one by one for that exact reason. the other two empires will (with no puppet masters to stop them) team up. crush Tarquin. and things will go back to how they used to be, with no one ever realizing what had gone down except OotS/ Haleys dad etc.

[Grey Watcher]

I don't know how or why. or even most of the people involved name's. but i am pretty sure that by the end of the story, every member of Tarquins gang will be dead. Because if he has no one to manipulate the three empires with behind the scenes, his plan falls apart quickly.

new theory. Elan is going to make sure that Tarquin looses his party one by one for that exact reason. the other two empires will (with no puppet masters to stop them) team up. crush Tarquin. and things will go back to how they used to be, with no one ever realizing what had gone down except OotS/ Haleys dad etc.

I dunno, calculated assassinations are not Elan's style. Roy or Haley might be swayed to such a plan as the most pragmatic course, but it seems so wildly out of character for Elan that I can't imagine him endorsing, much less pursuing, this course of action.

That's not to say that Team Tarquin won't end up dead by the end of things, I just don't think it'll be Elan's doing, except insofar as he brought them into the whole Xykon-Gate plot.

[The Pilgrim]

Well, you know the old say, "losing the Cleric is the first step towards TPK". And they have already lost Malack.

[DiamondHooHaMan]

hahahaha that wasn't how i meant it. i meant that Elan would plan an awesome showdown between the two parties in the desert so no one is there to go "woah who was that badass" (or however that went) about Tarquin or something. yeah Elan would never go to plan: slit throats in their sleep

[Roland Itiative]

But Elan is a bard. Would he really be able to keep shut about his awesome showdown with his long lost father's party? :smalltongue:

[DiamondHooHaMan]

But Elan is a bard. Would he really be able to keep shut about his awesome showdown with his long lost father's party? :smalltongue:

he has so far............

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html

[Roland Itiative]

But that's the drama-appropriate thing to do before/while the plan is in motion. After the fact? The most appropriate thing to do will be sing an epic song about it in the nearest tavern :smalltongue:

[pendell]

Just saw this. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html) Here are the parameters of Elan defeating Tarquin in this book permanently without the need for a sequel.

1) It must not leave Tarquin a scrap of glory or memory. His very memory must be erased. Otherwise Tarquin wins by losing.

2) It must not actually kill Tarquin. Elan isn't a killer even after far worse provocation than this.

3) It requires the assistance of a cleric.

What would do it?

I just did a scan of the list of clerical spells of Durkon's demonstrated level, and my money is on Geas (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm). Compel him to, say, join the circus and take on an assumed name. That'll be the end of the legend of Tarquin.

Problems:

1) Ten minute casting time. May be shortened with some kind of house rule or if Elan can somehow con his father into not resisting or what not for 100 rounds.

2) Can't Tarquin just get it dispelled again, especially if it happens right in front of Shatterstone?

3) Durkula is now very likely LE. Why should he assist Elan in stopping the reign of a lawful evil tyrant? May be obviated if living Durkon has already written a scroll Elan can use.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kish]

3) Durkula is now very likely LE. Why should he assist Elan in stopping the reign of a lawful evil tyrant?
As I recall, "He's evil, therefore he'll have lost all his hostility toward evil former-enemies of his" was how Nale thought about Durkon. Remind me, how well did that work out for Nale?

A better second sentence there would have been, "Why would he go along with a plan that spends more resources to leave Tarquin alive, instead of just going, 'Don' be silly, Elan. I'll make sure he'll never hurt anyone again, and it will only take a few seconds and no spell, just like when I did it to tha drow.'"

[pendell]

As I recall, "He's evil, therefore he'll have lost all his hostility toward evil former-enemies of his" was how Nale thought about Durkon. Remind me, how well did that work out for Nale?


What harm, exactly, has Tarquin done to make Durkula consider him a personal enemy?

Put differently, what reason does Durkula have to oppose Tarquin, when Tarquin is not only not harming them, he's actually offering a teleport option which is their only realistic hope of getting to Kraagor's gate in time, given Xykon and co. just teleported there?

Elan is opposing Tarquin not because Tarquin is hindering the order (he's not) or because he's trying to kill Elan or any of the OOTS (he's not doing that either). He's opposing Tarquin purely because he's an evil tyrant who needs to be stopped for the sake of innocents. And why should an LE vampire care two sticks for that? When there's an entire world that needs saving from the Snarl?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kish]

I'm afraid I don't really find, "Durkon's evil is going to manifest as no longer being loyal to the Order, any second now" any more convincing than "Durkon's evil is going to manifest in no longer being hostile to other evil characters he was previously hostile to." Malack was completely loyal to his group--arguably significantly more loyal than Tarquin was.

If you were proposing that Durkon was going to take it on himself to deal permanently with all the Order's enemies since they seem constitutionally incapable of doing so--that is, brutally slaughter every enemy the Order has without regard for any moral reason not to kill them--I could see that. But that he'll tell Elan, "Deal with your own problems, I don't care anymore"? No. Elan's enemy is as much Durkon's enemy now as he was when Durkon was alive. That's setting aside the fact that Tarquin's best friend murdered Durkon, and Tarquin went "kitchee-coo" at him.

[pendell]

The difference in our viewpoints, Kish, is that Tarquin is not the order's enemy at this time and place unless Elan makes it so.

I think Durkula has a personal mission: To save the world.

Zz'dtri and Nale were enemies who were attempting to thwart that goal and get him to assist them. This conflicted with his own goals, so he destroyed them.

Tarquin is NOT acting in conflict with his goals. Tarquin is offering them help, it is help they absolutely need to succeed, and there is nowhere else they can get it.

Accordingly, there is no reason for Durkula to assist Elan in overthrowing Tarquin unless it's a quickie that allows Elan to shut up about Evil Empire blah blah and focus on the primary task.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Taelas]

Unless Durkon still considers Elan his friend.

Or unless he feels obligated as a Lawful character to continue assisting with the task he already agreed to.

Tarquin means jack squat to Durkon personally. If Elan wants his father out of the way, why wouldn't the dwarf help?

[Mike Havran]

Durkon/Durkula is first and foremost loyal to Roy. And Roy is pragmatic. He really might consider accepting aid in
a) finding Vaarsuvius
b) getting a free teleport to Northern Lands.

[Aquillion]

Remember, he also got the idea for it from what Roy was saying. So it likely has something to do with that.

As far as other cleric spells that might be relevant go, I'm thinking his plot would likely be social in nature. That would likely mean something like:

Zone of Truth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/zoneOfTruth.htm)
Speak With Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm)
Divination (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divination.htm)
Sending (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sending.htm)