Why are people liking Nale *right now*?

[dnzrx]

I do not get some people...

Why are people liking Nale right now?

He always been a smug, egotistical, brat whose plans are as diluted as his brain.

Honestly, he had it coming. Killing a friend of his powerful father, then bragging it in his face, THEN rejecting any sort of protection from retribution?

He dug his own grave and made his own tombstone.

[BrometheusJones]

Ive never liked him. I agree with what you have said.

The answer to your question is, usually people in the "real world" get attached to things as they become familiar with them, and that familiarity brings a certain level of comfort as familiar things are symbolic of a persistent order and structure, which lends itself to predictable, or at least more predictable, future events. Being able to predict future events with higher accuracy leads to less uncertainty, and thus less fear due to the unknown future, where anything could happen, not the least of which is further loss of that which is familiar (fear that the perceived order will decay further).

Nale was familiar. His death brings about future uncertainty. Many people now lament his passing, subconsciously, because of that, not because many people actually liked his attitude, personality, etc.

Nale still living supports the order that people have constructed in their minds and are comfortable with.

Nale dying destabilizes that order and increases potential chaos, which the vast majority of people are simply not comfortable with.

Really it all goes back to hard coded survival instincts....

"Fear of the dark".

[Vaarsuvius-Mage]

I've always kinda liked Nale :smalltongue: I thought he was entertaining, and his plans were so stupid that they were funny. He's not my favorite, but he's alright.

[NerdyKris]

I do not get some people...

Why are people liking Nale right now?

He always been a smug, egotistical, brat whose plans are as diluted as his brain.

Honestly, he had it coming. Killing a friend of his powerful father, then bragging it in his face, THEN rejecting any sort of protection from retribution?

He dug his own grave and made his own tombstone.


One can enjoy a character immensely while not approving of their actions and behavior. Nale was a fantastic character, and this last arc of his story was extremely well written and a fantastic send off. We were just starting to see Nale when he has real power behind him. Some people would have liked to see more of that competence.

I think you're confusing "liking the character" with "approving of him".

[Porthos]

I've always had a soft spot for Nale, <ETA> without approving of his murderous actions naturally </ETA>, so I take issue with your 'right now' assertion. :smallwink:

As for this scene? There are quite a few people who don't particularly like Tarquin either, and so are reacting to that as well. Throw in the very real identification with not wanting to be in a parents shadow, and I can see some sympathizing/pitying showing up.

[bookguy]

He's probably coming back, though. There's no need to lament unless his body is destroyed or something.

[MtlGuy]

I do not get some people...

Why are people liking Nale right now?

He always been a smug, egotistical, brat whose plans are as diluted as his brain.

Honestly, he had it coming. Killing a friend of his powerful father, then bragging it in his face, THEN rejecting any sort of protection from retribution?

He dug his own grave and made his own tombstone.

Ah yes, time to apply my useless Psych BA to fictional characters...

Before meeting Tarquin, yeah, Nale was nothing more than a rotten little 'expletive deleted'. But after meeting Tarquin, it's not so black and white. It's a 'twin study', nature vs nurture. Elan and Nale share the same genetics, but each got very different parent-child relationships. To see Nale executed by his own father elicits some sympathy from the audience. It's not 100% Nale's fault he ended up the way he did, Tarquin set him on that path, much like Elan's mother put Elan on a very different one.

[pcgneurotic]

Yes, R.I.P. :nale: . He was a part of this for a long time. I just feel sorry for :sabine: now.

[The Pilgrim]

I have never liked Nale. But that doesn't make Tarquin's action any less disgusting.

[Ellye]

Liking a character doesn't mean that you have to approve his actions. Nale is a Evil evil person, and nothing truly justifies his crimes.

But the thing is, up until recently, we had no idea why Nale was the way he is. He seemed to be petty and egocentric just for the sake of it. His actions seemed kinda purposeless.

But now? Now I guess that many people can see why Nale is like this. This last comic gives us a pretty good idea of how insufferable it must have been to grow up as Tarquin's son. Being raised as a cog in a machine, always being in the shadow of a man that is already a shadow himself. Now that we can finally start to understand why Nale is so messed up, he's dead.

[Henry the 57th]

Why? Because, honestly, after all that we've learned, I pity him.

To quote myself:


I never thought I'd feel sorry for Nale but... I kinda do now. Imagine growing up like that, with Tarquin for a father and only his team for family. No honest, sincere, sweet affection like Elan got from their mother. Just the dark, twisted, possessive "love" of a murderous sociopath. And not just that, but constantly put through cruel "tests" to try and mold him into a clone of his father. No wonder he wanted to break free. I would too.

After this, I can't even entirely blame him for his ego and evil. While yes, he is still responsible for his own actions, the impetus was provided by his upbringing. Constantly in the shadow of his father, molded to be evil, dismissed as worthless and inferior when he didn't measure up. His huge ego acted to cover the insecurities this no doubt left him with. And after being raised the way he was, is it truly surprising that he turned out so bad?

And after all he went through, and all he did, he still could never escape Tarquin's shadow. And in the end, his own father killed him in cold blood for refusing to be pawn. A sad end to a sad story.

Farewell, Nale. May Sabine and Amun-Zora avenge you, someday.

[littlebum2002]

I'm actually one of those people. I have ALWAYS hated Nale. Up until this strip, of course. Just like when Miko died, we learned something about a character right before his death.

His whole life, he had to deal with his father directing his every move. He had no freedom, no individual personality. He was just a pawn being used by his father to pursue some goal. He wanted it to end, and it did. Of course, he's dead, but I think some part of him is relieved to be free from his father's influence at last.

[Demolator]

While I don't really like Nale, I thought he had a good story to tell and I appreciate the times he's popped up in the comic.

[Porthos]

Also, expressing an understanding of why Nale was acting the way he did in this last strip, and examining that in a total picture is not the same as 'liking' him. Casting a bit of a jaundiced eye over at Tarquin and how he fit into all of this and putting Nale's reactions in that context is also not the same as 'liking him'.

Mind, I fully admit to 'liking' Nale as a character for quite sometime. I have a bit of a soft spot for underdogs who rail against the heavens. For people who are "" that close to success but fate keeps snatching it away. Make no mistake, Nale was just as every bit as bad as Xykon. But I for one actually liked the character. Especially when he showed his human side. His quiet moments with Sabine, for instance. Or when he was sarcastically commenting about, "of course" everything is falling apart around him.

Or, say, his all-too-human eruption at his father here.

Doesn't mean he didn't deserve to go. Doesn't mean that OotSVerse isn't a better place without him. But I must admit I'm gonna miss the character, presuming this is his final exit.

That his ignominious fall comes just eight pages after his greatest triumph?? Well, typical Nale I suppose. :smallsmile:

[One Step Two]

I think part of it, is much like Tsukiko, and to a lesser extent Therkla
Their most profound moment, the scene where we learn them best, is the scene where they die.


Before that point, Tsukiko was a psychotic Theurge who had a twisted obsession with the undead. In the time of her death, we discussed the facts that she was someone, as the MitD pointed out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html), who just wanted to be loved.

For Therkla, we knew she was loyal to her master, but loved a hero. She was bound to her duty, but saw no reason why it had to be that way. She wanted everyone she cared about to be safe, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0592.html) and to hell with the extreemes, we learned this best right before Kubota betrayed her.

And when we come to Nale. We saw a man who was perhaps, in his own ways as childish as his brother, we saw him as a bumbling buffoon despite his victories over the order. An egotistical savage who wanted his own gratification to spite everyone who thought they knew what was best for him. But as we saw in the latest comic, he was someone who wanted to be his own man.

In coming to see the characters true depths, we can appreciate them best, and this only serves to high-light their deaths, and show it into sharp relief. They are people, Evil or Neutral, they are people. Why should we save our love for just the heroes, the death of a villian is equally profound.

[SavageWombat]

I liked him as a villain. As an NPC designed to give character growth to Elan.

I like Magneto - doesn't mean I admire the man and his behavior.

[Porthos]

There's also the point that, all along, I've found Nale to be far more human than Tarquin. Tarquin, while he has been showed to care for his children and laugh with his friends, always teeters on the edge of being a cipher for me.

That is, you never really know what is going on inside of his head. At most we've seen him get annoyed. But full out angry? Or even deliriously happy? Not so much. He seems to always be within one or two steps of base-line cheerful.

There's just something... off about that. On some level there is something inhuman about the way he acts.

But Nale? Oh, he's human. Warts and all. Emphasis on warts.

To put it another way, Tarquin is in many ways larger than life. He's the person that people want to emulate on some level (no, not the murderous evil despicable level, but the calm, in control and a total badass level).

But Nale? He's far more relatable than Tarquin has been so far. Perhaps that's my difference between the two characters. I know what makes Nale tick. I've seen him vulnerable and alone, defeated. Tarquin? Well for the first time I've seen him suffer a real loss. And he's STILL a cipher to a great degree for me.

Perhaps it is this cipher like nature of Tarquin which give the wide disparity of opinion of him, and his motives. We really don't have a true grip on what makes him do what he does, thus some project onto him what they see.

[BlackestOfMages]

first point is that it is possible to like a character, without admiring or planning to emulate them. Look at all the popular villains in the world - I highly doubt that they have legions of people planning to copy them, but they're still popular.

and as for why Nale is becoming more popular now, it's because it has been now that he is getting his back-story and development, rather than serving as a technique to give Elan back-story and development. As he has become much more 3-dimension and realistic, and even releteable (in his own twisted, stuck in the shadow of his larger-than-life father, way) in this storyline, he elects more sympathy.

Because we now see why he has such an ego, and that its so important to him people know he won. We see a glimpse of why he hates his family - and its because they're his family - and we see his relationship with Sabine, and even Thog and Zzditri, as more than a simple alliance of evil but actual companionship and (twisted, evil, but dedicated) love.

especially in the last comic, where he comes of as less of an egotisticial maniac and more a person struggling to be themselves against such a huge shadow as Tarquin. Sure, he's still evil, but that dosen't make the way he's suffered any less relatable, even if we still wouldn't want to be him

so it's easier to feel for him now than ever, even as he dies. As this was an excelent arc for the crazy blonde guy with the goatee, even if he does die.

[SavageWombat]

Now if Harry Potter/Nale fanfic starts becoming a thing, I'll begin to worry.

Please don't respond with links. I don't want to know.

[Rakoa]

Now if Harry Potter/Nale fanfic starts becoming a thing, I'll begin to worry.

Please don't respond with links. I don't want to know.

You brought this upon yourself. I DENY YOUR REQUEST!!!! (http://www.empowernetwork.com/luc327/files/2013/02/lol-just-kidding.jpg)

[SamDerringer]

He's probably coming back, though. There's no need to lament unless his body is destroyed or something.


I dont think this will happen. Either Tarquin forbids his Ressurrection or Ms. Shattersmith will disintegrate the bodies.

[A_Man]

Ever since this arc began, I started to, not 'like' Nale, but understand him. Before then, I pitied him, since he was an egotistical genius, who's plans were always screwed up due to luck. He was a character who didn't want to live the way he was expected to, and died because of it.

I don't know whether it was stupidity or courage when he stood up to Tarquin, but, while Nale is an Evil character, he had a backbone. Even when faced with death, he didn't back off from Tarquin.

The Giant did a masterful thing, with taking Nale, a one demensional villain from a gag strip, to becoming something meaningful. His love of Sabine, his friendship with Thog and Z, he was a person. Heck, I'd gander that the reason he fell in love with Sabine, is because he needed someone like her. Nale grew up alone, probably without any friends, he was not smart enough to compare to his amaizing father, but he was built to be a clone of him.

Tarquin made Nale his clone, and forced upon him so much, that all of his actions make sense.

He never had self confidence, so he had to make it up with being egotistical. He was never loved by his father, (that's my opinion of Tarquin's relationship with his son, just an opinion) so he bonded with Sabine, and tried to hurt his brother, who had a better life then he had.

[Tock Zipporah]

I've always kinda liked Nale :smalltongue: I thought he was entertaining, and his plans were so stupid that they were funny. He's not my favorite, but he's alright.

This is how I feel too. Nale was an entertaining character. Sure, he was sometimes incompetent and often over the top, but that was the whole point. He is, after all, ELAN'S evil twin, so "over the top" is in his blood. If Elan is a good, goofy, loveable buffoon, then Nale is an Evil, bungling, hateable buffoon. And that's what I love about him.

[Gift Jeraff]

I'm not seeing it. There's a thread celebrating his death. I reckon he's still one of the most hated characters (behind Miko and Celia, maybe ahead of Tsukiko), and his murderer is still one of the most loved characters.

[Quorothorn]

Simple answer: Rich Burlew has a track record of being REALLY, REALLY GOOD at making the last moments of a recurring character poignant/affecting, even if some/much/most of the audience dislike that character overall. Miko, Therkla, the Ancient Black Dragon, Tsukiko, Malack, and yes, even Nale.

[smuchmuch]

He always been a smug, egotistical, brat whose plans are as diluted as his brain.

In defense of Nale, i never found his plans to be particulary stupid. (well, the serious plans anyway, not those obviously played for laughs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0255.html))

Hell, his first one worked , and well too, and the OOts was only saved by... well pure luck pretty much and because 'fate said so'.
And the second backfired because he let elan alive, true but that was kind of the point of the plan. It wasn't about killing Ethan.
I mean really how could any villain prepare, and even less know in advance, for 'predetimined critical hits' or 'dramtic timing' ? (Any villain who isn't an annoying walking lampashade like Tarquin that is)

As for Nale himself, he provided a decent villain for those scondary plots without being poerfull enough to overshadow the main villain in anyway. He was the guy you could love to hate, his role was to be a petty egotistical nuisance and he filled it well. A minor villain you just had to love to hate.

I find Tarquin much more annoying, because well the only reason he's succesfull is because he's meta as hell. It's like he got knowlege (evil overlord list) maxed out. And he's smug about it too.There is such a thing as too much medium awreness, even for this comic, I feel.

I so really want him to die of an unconventional and most importantly anticlimatic death and look so damn surprised about it.

[Porthos]

I so really want him to die of an unconventional and most importantly anticlimatic death and look so damn surprised about it.

If Tarquin's final line is something like:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: I guess I wasn't in that sort of story after all. *dies*

I will send 50 dollars to the charity of Rich's choice.

That's how happy I would be with the scene. :smallwink:

[Tragak]

Because he was the first villain of the comic.

The Order had fought mooks, they had heard about a villain, but the Linear Guild marked the first time that they, as a group, truly fought villains.

[Demolator]

Because he was the first villain of the comic.

The Order had fought mooks, they had heard about a villain, but the Linear Guild marked the first time that they, as a group, truly fought villains.

To clarify, we're not counting Trigak, right? Or did he come later...

[Vinsfeld]

I've always liked him, really. Not my favorite, but I liked him. I liked him even more when he killed Malack. And now I'm kinda sad that he's gone.

[Haluesen]

I'll admit I also don't see a lot of the liking either. In fact, I see tons of people in the discussion thread for the comic rejoicing over his death, like the Giant did a public service in killing him off. I mean yeah, he was a villan, yay that he is gone and all, or maybe not yay but more like "okay then", and you see that a lot of people suddenly like him, but I didn't see it until the people lined up in this thread to profess their views on him. I mean he was interesting, not the greatest villan, he had some nice moments lately and I do like getting this insight into him. I didn't really like him, though he did annoy me a lot less than Miko or Celia. It's just that, I guess people tend to react more radically over fictional characters than they do real life people, all up and down the spectrum of hate and adore.

[AdmiralCheez]

I've always liked Nale, so his death was pretty shocking. I've always seen him as that low-threat, recurring villain; the kind that shows up every once in a while to have a familiar face for the heroes to battle, while saving the main villain for big moments. They'd get a good plan going, have some fun in the spotlight, get beaten, and then pop up later and do the same thing again, but a slightly bigger threat. They were reliable for some good old-fashioned adventure, a few laughs, and a nice story. No matter what happened, you could always be assured that the Order would triumph.

But now that Nale, Z, and presumably Thog are dead, the Linear Guild is pretty much wiped out. They've been there since the beginning; the first real threat the Order ever had to overcome. And now they're gone. Without Nale, there is no Linear Guild; it's just Sabine now, and she's busy working for the IFCC these days.

So that's why I've always liked Nale for the role in the story he served; the goofy, over-the-top villain that isn't really a serious threat, but pops in to say hello once in a while. A reliable, saturday-morning-cartoon-style antagonist. I figured he would last all the way until the end, maybe even changing his ways and allying with the Order. He might not have survived until the end, but I thought for sure he would have lasted longer than this.



P.S. I looked it up. Trigak (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0017.html) technically appears before the Linear Guild (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0043.html), but Trigak's whole point of existence was die off really quickly, so I don't think it counts as the first "real" villain.

[Needle]

it is possible to like a character, without admiring or planning to emulate them.

QFT, plus I always liked Nale and he's easily Top-10 to me :smallannoyed:

[swicked]

I never "liked" him. I dislike most of the characters in the comic. That's just my way, though.

Nale was a funny joke. He was like team rocket.
I dunno about the timing of his death... he had long since become a bit too much of a distraction, in my opinion, from the more interesting arcs in the comic, but he was always decent comic relief.
I'm not overjoyed he's dead, but I'm certainly not sad. It was a satisfying end.

[Lord Raziere]

I liked Nale like I like Team Rocket: he was a bumbling recurring villain that always amusing to see what crazy plan he came up with this time around before he got inevitably trounced like the side-villain he is. the point of him is not to be a threat, the point of him is to keep things moving and interesting and provide comedy, and he did that well.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ah yes, time to apply my useless Psych BA to fictional characters...

Before meeting Tarquin, yeah, Nale was nothing more than a rotten little 'expletive deleted'. But after meeting Tarquin, it's not so black and white. It's a 'twin study', nature vs nurture. Elan and Nale share the same genetics, but each got very different parent-child relationships. To see Nale executed by his own father elicits some sympathy from the audience. It's not 100% Nale's fault he ended up the way he did, Tarquin set him on that path, much like Elan's mother put Elan on a very different one.

"Nature" shows us baby nale smashing baby elan in the head before the parents split.

He was always rotten. Tarquin's (lack of) parenting skills may have exacerbated it, but ultimately nale was vile from the start.

And I've always disliked nale. He's a karma Houdini and boring as hell, with absolutely no redeeming, endearing, or even interesting qualities. He breathes illogic like most breathe in air. And seriously...if you had a devoted succubus girlfriend...would you even be leaving the house, let alone devoting your life to trying to "best" your worthless half-wit brother who's never actually done anything to you?

Freaking terrible, nonsensical, annoying character. I'm glad he's gone. Totally don't get all the pro-nale posters lately. I suspect it's because being "counter-culture" is edgy and hip or something.

[ti'esar]

If anything, Nale's death seems to have revealed the full depths of some people's hatred for him. Every character who's died for ages - even friggin' Zz'dtri - seems to have gotten some kind of "funeral" thread in their honor. What's Nale get? "The Hurrah Nale is Dead Thread".

[Porthos]

Totally don't get all the pro-nale posters lately. I suspect it's because being "counter-culture" is edgy and hip or something.

In my case, nope. What you see is what you get. :smallsmile:

[BlackDragonKing]

If anything, Nale's death seems to have revealed the full depths of some people's hatred for him. Every character who's died for ages - even friggin' Zz'dtri - seems to have gotten some kind of "funeral" thread in their honor. What's Nale get? "The Hurrah Nale is Dead Thread".

To be fair, Nale is easily the least sympathetic character that's had a major death so far. Zz'dtri's death causing such a stir actually surprised me, seeing as the character was almost a complete nonentity in the long run.

Nale, on the other hand, has been a singularly unpleasant villain that a number of fans felt lacked the charm of the other recurring bad guys and died in a way that really screams Too Dumb To Live, so while some people sympathized with his death, a number felt he got what he deserved after evading lasting consequences for bedeviling the order for much too long.

Honestly, I could never like Nale as a Team Rocket figure because he was trying to have it both ways by being such a vicious idiot. He's a bumbling incompetent that can never really win because of his enormous character flaws, but he's also a sadistic viper who gets a lot of innocent people hurt and killed in the process of pursuing a petty grudge. He's just as despicable as all the other villains, but he's not even decent enough to be GOOD at being a vicious murderer, so for some people he gets the double-whammy of being hatable because he's such an awful person AND hatable because he's such a loser.

[Lizard Lord]

To clarify, we're not counting Trigak, right? Or did he come later...

Trigak was a mook. He was a named mook, sure, but a mook all the same. He worked for Xykon, didn't really do anything clever or leave an impression (as far as I can tell at least), and was killed off rather quickly. (Not as quickly as nameless mook's sure, but quickly nonetheless.) His biggest contribution to the story was as a red herring.

[Baron Pineapple]

I've always liked Nale since his introduction.

He had that "Team Rocket" feel yes, the funny goofy villain who was a linear descendent of the moustache-twirling vaudevillains who tied damsels to train tracks and saw mills.

It was after Cliffport that Nale changed gears and to some degree became 'worse' as a character. The casual way in which he murdered innocents, the sheer wastefulness of his approach, it took him too far down an extreme that I felt weakened him as a character.

But the recent arc, particularly his vendetta against Malack and the revelation of his father's relationship with him, all fleshed him out and to some degree demonstrated the root of his corruption. Something warped Nale and put him down this path, and we finally saw a great deal of the root causes behind his twisted personality. We even saw some degree of admirable qualities, competence, love/affection, and idealism behind the goateed villain.

I think that's what makes people say they feel bad for his passing, that even though he was a bad guy, he wasn't always a *bad* guy.

[Spuddles]

Nale has always been insufferable and I am glad he's dead. Now if only his twin brother and the fighter could be taken care of, this comic would be rid of annoying characters.

[Dwy]

Remember what early oots Elan was like? He annoyed the hell out of me for one. Nale? Stabbed him through the heart. I'll always love him for that.

[Bulldog Psion]

I don't particularly like or dislike Nale, but that doesn't mean that I can't simultaneously disapprove of him and yet recognize that he was twisted and warped into what he ended up being by dear old dad.

[Chantelune]

Remember what early oots Elan was like? He annoyed the hell out of me for one. Nale? Stabbed him through the heart. I'll always love him for that.

Well, that wasn't exactly through the heart, but now that you mention it... I guess he did one nice thing after all.

Yeah, I don't like Elan either.

[Aolbain]

"Nature" shows us baby nale smashing baby elan in the head before the parents split.

He was always rotten. Tarquin's (lack of) parenting skills may have exacerbated it, but ultimately nale was vile from the start.

Punching your brother as a small child makes you evil? Then everyone who ever had a sibling is a complete monster.



Freaking terrible, nonsensical, annoying character. I'm glad he's gone. Totally don't get all the pro-nale posters lately. I suspect it's because being "counter-culture" is edgy and hip or something.


Yeah, why would anyone hold an opinion that is different from yours? They must be lying.

[Taelas]

I've always liked Nale since his introduction.

He had that "Team Rocket" feel yes, the funny goofy villain who was a linear descendent of the moustache-twirling vaudevillains who tied damsels to train tracks and saw mills.

It was after Cliffport that Nale changed gears and to some degree became 'worse' as a character. The casual way in which he murdered innocents, the sheer wastefulness of his approach, it took him too far down an extreme that I felt weakened him as a character.

But the recent arc, particularly his vendetta against Malack and the revelation of his father's relationship with him, all fleshed him out and to some degree demonstrated the root of his corruption. Something warped Nale and put him down this path, and we finally saw a great deal of the root causes behind his twisted personality. We even saw some degree of admirable qualities, competence, love/affection, and idealism behind the goateed villain.

I think that's what makes people say they feel bad for his passing, that even though he was a bad guy, he wasn't always a *bad* guy.

Did you somehow forget how he backstabbed Elan over a percieved slight within a few comics of his first appearance? :smallconfused:
Nale was goofy, yes, but comparing him to Team Rocket is a bit much. He's always been perfectly willing to kill.

[F.Harr]

I do not get some people...

Why are people liking Nale right now?

He always been a smug, egotistical, brat whose plans are as diluted as his brain.

Honestly, he had it coming. Killing a friend of his powerful father, then bragging it in his face, THEN rejecting any sort of protection from retribution?

He dug his own grave and made his own tombstone.

He's dead. Most people have that instinctive reaction to the recently decieced.

[Chantelune]

He's dead. Most people have that instinctive reaction to the recently decieced.

"He was a bastard in life, but now that he's dead, I realise he wasn't that bad", you mean ?

[The Zoat]

I was okay with him... Until this arc.

Earlier, Nale was just a fun source of character development and jokes.

Now... It seems like he had serious issues. He was always struggling to prove he was as good as his father, and in the end, he failed. Spectacularly.

It kind of makes me feel a teensy bit bad for laughing at him.

At least he killed someone important.

[Kish]

I think it is just possible the OP is confusing "liking Nale" with "not liking Tarquin."

I mean, I want to celebrate Nale's death. When I'm not looking at this board, I do celebrate Nale's death. But the board is cluttered with tons of arguments, not even that it totally doesn't reflect badly on Tarquin in any way that he just cold-bloodedly murdered one of the people he claims to love, but that Tarquin didn't kill Nale, Nale did--arguments that the Oracle would look at and say, "Nah, not even gonna try."

[137beth]

I think some people like Nale right now for the same reasons they always liked Nale.

[Valanarch]

People are liking Nale right now because of the last minute character development in the past few strips. Before, he was simply an evil fool who would fight the Order for no reason other than petty revenge or come up with stupid plans that would never work. Because he was able to kill Malack and he had some human motivations, people could actually connect with him.

[DiamondHooHaMan]

i really enjoyed the story lines he had, they were always really good. i loved to hate him as the saying goes.

put it this way. if Doctor who announced they would never again have an episode where the Cybermen appeared, I'd be disappointed. because a cool villain is a cool villain.

[Burner28]

What? I've always liked that egotistical maniac!

[Snails]

But now? Now I guess that many people can see why Nale is like this. This last comic gives us a pretty good idea of how insufferable it must have been to grow up as Tarquin's son. Being raised as a cog in a machine, always being in the shadow of a man that is already a shadow himself. Now that we can finally start to understand why Nale is so messed up, he's dead.

This.

I always disliked Nale. A good clean murdering is better than he deserved. However I do feel sorry for him.

Delving a bit into "psychobabble"...

Tarquin is a classic "controlling personality". He has a fantasy view of himself (Mythical Tarquin) and a fantasy view of those around him (Mythical Nale). In Tarquin's mind Nale has been built up to a Mythical Nale that is larger than life and magically makes Tarquin himself look more like Mythical Tarquin.

Here is the important part. Tarquin never measures Nale by his actual accomplishments or failures. Tarquin only compares Nale to Mythical Nale. Nale get berated for not living up to this ideal he is supposed to be, Mythical Nale, or, worse, he is ignored. To be ignored is how Tarquin shows utter contempt.

Nale was getting hysterical precisely because Tarquin refused to get mad at him for his actual failures. Tarquin was playing the "someday you will grow up and realize you wanted to be just like Mythical Nale all along" game (and until then he will try to have a conversation with Mythical Elan).

What Nale finally successfully accomplished was he convinced Tarquin that there was never going to be a Mythical Nale. Only Nale. In other words, he screamed loud enough for Tarquin to hear: "Love me or hate me for being Nale!"

Well, what happened? Tarquin showed that he never loved Nale. Tarquin loved Mythical Nale. And for "killing" Mythical Nale, the son Tarquin actually loved, Tarquin acted the way an utterly evil bastard will act.

[Porthos]

I think it is just possible the OP is confusing "liking Nale" with "not liking Tarquin."

I mean, I want to celebrate Nale's death. When I'm not looking at this board, I do celebrate Nale's death. But the board is cluttered with tons of arguments, not even that it totally doesn't reflect badly on Tarquin in any way that he just cold-bloodedly murdered one of the people he claims to love, but that Tarquin didn't kill Nale, Nale did--arguments that the Oracle would look at and say, "Nah, not even gonna try."

Gotta admit as the reactions to this strip poured in, I did idly wonder for a moment which would win out. Your glee at seeing Nale get killed, or your irritation at some of the Tarquin fans out there.

Guess I know now. :smallwink:

[Warren Dew]

Remember what early oots Elan was like? He annoyed the hell out of me for one. Nale? Stabbed him through the heart. I'll always love him for that.
Good point. Even then, though, he wasn't competent enough actually to get rid of Elan.

[Emulgator]

Good point. Even then, though, he wasn't competent enough actually to get rid of Elan.

He brought him into negatives. Durkon coudn't heal him, because of Sabine. Did you predict Belkar healing him, or are you less competent than Nale?

Nale almost won. Tarquin failed, and if the price for doing that was his life, then he paid it. He died standing, not on his knees sucking up to Tarquin for what he's blamed. But if you ever stood against someone clearly stronger and bent on attacking you, your viewpoint, your persona - then you know that feels good. Only his face before death says something about the consequence, but I believe that it's the beginning of his growth, if he ever reapears.

Nale didn't die a coward's death.

[skim172]

Ive never liked him. I agree with what you have said.

The answer to your question is, usually people in the "real world" get attached to things as they become familiar with them, and that familiarity brings a certain level of comfort as familiar things are symbolic of a persistent order and structure, which lends itself to predictable, or at least more predictable, future events. Being able to predict future events with higher accuracy leads to less uncertainty, and thus less fear due to the unknown future, where anything could happen, not the least of which is further loss of that which is familiar (fear that the perceived order will decay further).

Nale was familiar. His death brings about future uncertainty. Many people now lament his passing, subconsciously, because of that, not because many people actually liked his attitude, personality, etc.

Nale still living supports the order that people have constructed in their minds and are comfortable with.

Nale dying destabilizes that order and increases potential chaos, which the vast majority of people are simply not comfortable with.

Really it all goes back to hard coded survival instincts....

"Fear of the dark".

That explanation is just way too simplistic. By that line of thinking, it's incredible that humans can get out of bed in the morning. People do fear uncertainty, but generally, people deal okay with it - especially when the uncertainty is so vague as simply not knowing the future. Or not knowing what will happen next in a fictional medium.

Some people actually like Nale. That they like Nale and you don't doesn't indicate that they're undergoing a massive existential crisis. :smallwink:

Others, like me, simply are reacting to the death of a major character. It provokes a response because it's supposed to provoke a response - which is why the author wrote the story that way. Yes, there are some stories where the major characters drop off like flies, but most of those aren't that well-written. And in any case, Order of the Stick is intended to make character deaths significant - not just make you think, "Gawd, I'm glad he's dead."

[Michaeler]

It's okay to feel sorry for people you don't like. Witness the people watching Gannji and Enor fighting. People feel sorry for Nale because it was a rotten way to go, even though he probably got more chances than he deserved.

[Calemyr]

I've always been neutral on the issue of Nale, personally. He's just a perfect lukewarm mix of wit, creativity, arrogance, and metahumor. Not bad in any sense, just nothing that really got to me. But in his dying moments he showed me something I had not appreciated before.

One consistent trait about Nale is that he has been his own man since the beginning of the series. His chose his team, he picked his missions, he picked his strategies, and he chose when to diverge from his own plans. No matter what happened, no matter what his success, nor what his failure, it all hinged on the outcome of his choices. And he stuck to that because of his father's 'kindness'.

I have to believe the only thing worse than failing is having that failure mean nothing because Daddy fixed it for you. Until he rebelled, he was never anything but Tarquin's stooge - no victory was his, no failure was his, everything he had was handed to him and all of it meant nothing.

I honestly think Nale would happily take any and every failure he ever faced as leader of the Linear Guild over the grandest victory he could have achieved as Tarquin's pawn.

I find I like that. I still don't mind that he's met his end, but now at least I can understand the path that led him there.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Remember what early oots Elan was like? He annoyed the hell out of me for one. Nale? Stabbed him through the heart. I'll always love him for that.

That is true, I also dislike Elan, and still do. Nale was at least good for causing pain to elan. Them fighting each other was actually the single best parts of nale's time on screen. Not because of the dialogue between them, or the "action", or whatever... Because whoever stabbed who, it would be sure to make me smile. :smallsmile:

[Angel Bob]

I didn't really have an opinion about Nale until he went and killed Malack, who was one of my favourite characters. I was pissed for a while about such an incompetent and useless second-stringer offing a powerful, dangerous creature such as Malack. (I calmed down once I started reading more into Malack's death and what it said about his character.) But I never really liked Nale quite so much after that.

At least, until 913. Someone said earlier that Rich is really, REALLY good at making a character's death scene shocking and poignant, to the point where someone with a mind open to changing opinions might reassess their image of the character -- and, more often than not, feel a bit of pity. Miko Miyazaki is perhaps the most pertinent example, with Tsukiko as a more recent one. In 913, we get to really see how much Tarquin's rearing sucked, and how messed up Nale is as a result. We'd had plenty of warning that Tarquin was overbearing, stifling, and completely callous and cruel, and that Nale hated to be affiliated with him, but here is where it really boiled over. And you can't help but realize that, as horrid as Nale was and as much as he deserved punishment, his upbringing was pretty wretched, too.

[Weiser_Cain]

Never liked Nale, never liked the Linear Guild, more interested in Xylon and liches in general.

[coineineagh]

Well-known characters seem to be dying in swift pace now. I think that the destruction of the Azure City resistance marked the start of the dark closing chapters of the OotS story. Belkar very nearly almost... Durkon dead, but not completely. Malack gone, Zzt'dri killed... I wasn't surprised when it was Nale's time. Unless that cleric (Hilgya?) makes a sudden reappearance, it seems like curtains for the Linear Guild as we knew it.

The answer to your question is, usually people in the "real world" get attached to things as they become familiar with them, and that familiarity brings a certain level of comfort as familiar things are symbolic of a persistent order and structure, which lends itself to predictable, or at least more predictable, future events. Being able to predict future events with higher accuracy leads to less uncertainty, and thus less fear due to the unknown future, where anything could happen, not the least of which is further loss of that which is familiar (fear that the perceived order will decay further).
This need for a stable surrounding environment is stronger with many women than men, due to mothering instincts. Women often seem more disturbed by change than by injustice. In countries where family culture is very strong, you will see relative indifference towards corruption, power abuse and social inequality. As long as the situation is stable, people accept it. But if you advocate change, even change for the better with little perceivable risks involved, there is always a camp in support of stability over change. I know this treads awfully close to sexism, so I hope I phrased it carefully enough.

[ti'esar]

Well-known characters seem to be dying in swift pace now. I think that the destruction of the Azure City resistance marked the start of the dark closing chapters of the OotS story. Belkar very nearly almost... Durkon dead, but not completely. Malack gone, Zzt'dri killed... I wasn't surprised when it was Nale's time. Unless that cleric (Hilgya?) makes a sudden reappearance, it seems like curtains for the Linear Guild as we knew it.

This need for a stable surrounding environment is stronger with many women than men, due to mothering instincts. Women often seem more disturbed by change than by injustice. In countries where family culture is very strong, you will see relative indifference towards corruption, power abuse and social inequality. As long as the situation is stable, people accept it. But if you advocate change, even change for the better with little perceivable risks involved, there is always a camp in support of stability over change. I know this treads awfully close to sexism, so I hope I phrased it carefully enough.

As someone else said earlier, sexism or not, this is pretty insulting on its own. It actually is possible for people to like Nale and feel sad about his passing without it coming from some deep-seated emotional need.

[Spuddles]

Now... It seems like he had serious issues.

You're just now getting this? He's a sociopathic serial killer with severe narcissistic personality disorder. His best friend is a spree killer and his girl friend is pitspawn.


That is true, I also dislike Elan, and still do. Nale was at least good for causing pain to elan. Them fighting each other was actually the single best parts of nale's time on screen. Not because of the dialogue between them, or the "action", or whatever... Because whoever stabbed who, it would be sure to make me smile. :smallsmile:

:smallsmile:


Never liked Nale, never liked the Linear Guild, more interested in Xylon and liches in general.

Nale is an interesting foil of incompetent, weak, monologueing villain to the incredible power of Xylon (that is so close to zyclon, the nerve gas), extreme competence of red cloak, and general total badassery of Tarquin.

This lastest arc has really impressed upon me the story-telling and character development talents of the Giant. Part of why thes characters work so well is because they have opposites and foils in other characters.

[The Zoat]

You're just now getting this? He's a sociopathic serial killer with severe narcissistic personality disorder. His best friend is a spree killer and his girl friend is pitspawn.


I mean deep-seated, emotionally destructive ones. Say what you want about Nale prior to this arc, it looked like he was okay with his life. Anything short of a kill isn't that damaging in DnD anyway, getting imprisoned sucked, but he got out eventually.

[Proud Tortoise]

Even getting killed isn't that permanent.