Counter-Attack Mechanics

[Dusk Eclipse]

Apart from Karmic Strike, Robilar's Gambit and Perfect Riposte are there any sort of mechanics that allows you to attack back an enemy who tried (or did) hit you in combat? Magic Items or feats would be preferable, but I'm open to class features.

[Big Fau]

The Riposte Scout ACF (Cityscape web enhancement) is an example. Also the Counterstrike Fighter ACF in PH2 and the Storm's Riposte feat from Dragonmarked (IIRC).

[herrhauptmann]

Spectral skirmisher from PHB2 works.
Downside is that they know what square you're in at the end.

[Saintheart]

Stretching it, but there's also the Divine Retribution and Divine Retaliation spells which basically thump a dude back who's already thumped you.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Riposte doesn't work because it is extra damage after you've been attacked, Storm Riposte would be the best, but it cost an action point and most games don't use them and even then it is extremely limited (baring shenanigans such as persisting Unfettered Heroism) and you need to be a Half-Elf :smallyuk:

The fighter ACF SUCKS!! 12th level? If it was lower level (perhaps 6th) it would be useful, but as it is is terribad.

Seems like spectral skirmisher is my best option, since I was thinking on going swordsage I have easy access to Invisibility, but it still isn't ideal.

I guess I could go with Karmic Strike, but without a wrathful healing weapon (or other form of vampiric healing) it is a little too dangerous for my tastes. And I can't even use mobility to negate the AC penalty since it relies on being hit (Robilar's Gambit works much better for this, but as a SS I couldn't take it till level 15 :smallsigh:) .

[herrhauptmann]

Have you looked at the Jack B Quick build? Are you planning dual wield? Sneak attack of opportunity is nice too, if Dungeon Mag is on the table.

I found spectral skirmisher trying to do an updated JBQ. Basic idea of the build is as follows: (copied from the link in my sig: Weapon Effects)


Improved Invisibility+Spectral Skirmisher (PHB2). Defensive Rebuke (ToB maneuver). Doublehit(Mini) And Thicket of Blades and Rapid Counter (maybe).


Defensive Rebuke, if I attack someone and they don't attack me, I get an AOO.
Thicket of Blades. If they move within my reach, I get an AOO.
Spectral Skirmisher. If they attack my square, I get an AOO. If I hit with the AOO, they know which square I'm in. Some trade offs, oh well.
Doublehit. When I wield 2 weapons and make an AOO, use both at the cost of a single AOO.

Two weapon fighting with spinning swords (secrets of sarlona) so I'll have reach.
Double hit will let me use one AOO attempt to hit with both weapons.
Dragon Magazine has a few feats that let me use secondary and tertiary attacks on an AOO, at the cost of an additional AOO attempt.
**6th level fighter with those feats, could get an attack at +6, and an attack at +1 for a single provoking attempt. If he's got doublehit, he should make 4 attacks for just 2 attempts.

[PaintByBlood]

There are some good options depending on exactly what you are going with. If you're doing Swordsage, for example, not the hardest thing to mix Setting Sun's shifting defense with a reach weapon, letting you move back, possibly get AoO's (the Thicket of Blades stance would help, though it isn't easy to get), and then get to attack on your turn.

If you're looking for something more optimal, there are a couple more ToB-inspired solutions (found here: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870630/Tome_of_Battle:_TricksCombosLibrary ). The most related highlights:
Repelling Shield (CMage, Spell) and Thicket of Blades (ToB, Stance) gets you free attacks and repulsion against anyone that attacks you and fails a reflex save.
Pearl of Black Doubt (ToB, Stance), Defensive Throw (CW, Feat) Stormguard Warrior: Channel the Storm (ToB, Feat), and other feats/actions to boost your defense, your number of AoOs, or your damage output. Altogether every miss boosts your armor class as well as the number of AoOs you don't take, which in turn puts your damage through the roof. A little bit cheesy, perhaps - and extra so if you throw in Snap Kick and argue that each AoO you didn't take was actually two attacks you chose not to make!

[SowZ]

Not strictly D&D, but Neverwinter Nights had a thing where you had a parry skill and you used that in place of AC while in a kind of full defense mode and if your parry skill ever surpassed the enemies attack roll by ten, (or five with the improved parry feat,) you got a free attack on them. Something similar could theoretically be houseruled into tabletop since it was designed balanced off of 3.5 rules. Some people use NVWN only prcs or D&D:Online feats at their table.

[Devronq]

Riposte doesn't work because it is extra damage after you've been attacked, Storm Riposte would be the best, but it cost an action point and most games don't use them and even then it is extremely limited (baring shenanigans such as persisting Unfettered Heroism) and you need to be a Half-Elf :smallyuk:

The fighter ACF SUCKS!! 12th level? If it was lower level (perhaps 6th) it would be useful, but as it is is terribad.

Seems like spectral skirmisher is my best option, since I was thinking on going swordsage I have easy access to Invisibility, but it still isn't ideal.

I guess I could go with Karmic Strike, but without a wrathful healing weapon (or other form of vampiric healing) it is a little too dangerous for my tastes. And I can't even use mobility to negate the AC penalty since it relies on being hit (Robilar's Gambit works much better for this, but as a SS I couldn't take it till level 15 :smallsigh:) .

Personally i think it would suck at any level i just went and read it and it limits you to a single attack so its realtivly pointless

[Dusk Eclipse]

Have you looked at the Jack B Quick build? Are you planning dual wield? Sneak attack of opportunity is nice too, if Dungeon Mag is on the table.

I found spectral skirmisher trying to do an updated JBQ. Basic idea of the build is as follows: (copied from the link in my sig: Weapon Effects)

Yeah I know about Jack, he was kind of an inspiration, but it is too expensive (feat-wise) to be done on anything but a fighter


There are some good options depending on exactly what you are going with. If you're doing Swordsage, for example, not the hardest thing to mix Setting Sun's shifting defense with a reach weapon, letting you move back, possibly get AoO's (the Thicket of Blades stance would help, though it isn't easy to get), and then get to attack on your turn.

If you're looking for something more optimal, there are a couple more ToB-inspired solutions (found here: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870630/Tome_of_Battle:_TricksCombosLibrary ). The most related highlights:
Repelling Shield (CMage, Spell) and Thicket of Blades (ToB, Stance) gets you free attacks and repulsion against anyone that attacks you and fails a reflex save.
Pearl of Black Doubt (ToB, Stance), Defensive Throw (CW, Feat) Stormguard Warrior: Channel the Storm (ToB, Feat), and other feats/actions to boost your defense, your number of AoOs, or your damage output. Altogether every miss boosts your armor class as well as the number of AoOs you don't take, which in turn puts your damage through the roof. A little bit cheesy, perhaps - and extra so if you throw in Snap Kick and argue that each AoO you didn't take was actually two attacks you chose not to make!

I'll check that thread when I'm on a computer that doesn't block Wizards (for some reason it blocks all gaming related site, except giantitp)


Not strictly D&D, but Neverwinter Nights had a thing where you had a parry skill and you used that in place of AC while in a kind of full defense mode and if your parry skill ever surpassed the enemies attack roll by ten, (or five with the improved parry feat,) you got a free attack on them. Something similar could theoretically be houseruled into tabletop since it was designed balanced off of 3.5 rules. Some people use NVWN only prcs or D&D:Online feats at their table.

Noted, but I don't think many DM's I know would allow that.

[herrhauptmann]

Noted, but I don't think many DM's I know would allow that.
If you find an old-school DM, one from AD&D or earlier, they might allow it. I remember playing in a game where you could 'roll to parry' instead of just go take a full defensive action. Of course, you were SOL if the monster had more attacks per round than you.

[Garagos]

Are you open to using feats from Mongoose Publishing books? If so, there are a couple I know of:

Counterattack: Once per encounter, single melee attack vs creature that just made a melee attack against you. **Not a stellar feat by any means, but listing it because it fits what you asked for**

Combat Instincts: As long as you aren't flat footed, you may make an attack against an adjacent opponent who attacked you and missed your AC by more than 5. Number of attacks limited to your Dex modifier. **This feat can be quite good, and has been banned in my group's campaigns**

[Dusk Eclipse]

Will keep that in mind