metamagic and summuning

[buttcyst]

which metamagic feats can be applied to summon monster/natures ally that are good for short term combat? augment summoning has already been accounted for

[eggynack]

Do they have to be metamagic, or can they just be other augment summoning type things? Also, is it summon monster, or summon nature's ally? There's a whole pile of SNA specific stuff, and I'm sure there's some SM specific stuff too. Like, extend is nice on summoned creatures, but why get that when ashbound is significantly better?

[buttcyst]

summon monster primarily, anything for nature's ally would be appreciated also (my wife is running a druid in a different game)

[eggynack]

I'm way more familiar with druid summoning style, which usually runs something like augment summoning, ashbound summoning (ECS), and greenbound (LEoF) or rashemi elemental summoning(UE), depending on your mood. There's other stuff along those lines too, if you really want ultimate summoning depth. I don't know nearly as much about how to do SM stuff, though malconvoker from Complete Scoundrel seems like the way to go along that route. Summoning isn't all that metamagic friendly, because its power level is so dependent on the level of the summons.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864066/Summoning_Handbook) is a handbook I like to reference when building a character, whether PC or NPC, that uses summons on a regular basis.

[137beth]

If you can, get Superior Summoning (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/superior-summoning) (Ultimate Magic). Summon d3+1 monsters from the list one level lower, and use maximized or empowered metamagic rods. Warning do not use the actual metamagic feats unless you can reduce the metamagic cost down to 0, because then you'll be summoning monsters from a list 3-4 levels lower, and they will die really easily. Use metamagic rods instead.

Also, note that summoning spells can be quickened (but, as above, only do it from a rod unless you have a way to reduce the cost). So summon some stuff as a swift action, then either summon some more, or cast a buff on your summons. AND they get to start attacking on the same turn you summon them.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'd argue that 1 round is longer than a full round action, so summon spells can only be quickened if you manage to reduce the casting time beforehand.

[Psyren]

Rapid Spell will get a summon down to a full-round action, allowing it to be quickened. There's also the Rapid Summoning variant for conjurers and a couple of other methods.

[strider24seven]

which metamagic feats can be applied to summon monster/natures ally that are good for short term combat? augment summoning has already been accounted for

Invisible Spell.

[ahenobarbi]

Unless you can get free metamagic usually you will get better results using higher-level summons.

There are feats like Rashemi Elemental Summoning, Greenbound Summoning that modify summons without increasing level of used spell slot and thus are a good choice.

[137beth]

I'd argue that 1 round is longer than a full round action, so summon spells can only be quickened if you manage to reduce the casting time beforehand.

Ack, yea, that was changed from 3.5 to PF:
in 3.5 it was

A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened.
In PF it is:

A spell whose casting time is more than 1 round or 1 full-round action cannot be quickened.

[buttcyst]

thank you all for the help, it has been useful.

[Urpriest]

If you've got a source of free metamagic, Twin is nice. It's about on par with Quicken depending on the action economy involved.