Team Tarquin 2nd Ed?

[RolkFlameraven]

He just one shotted Nail with a dagger, his Cleric didn't use armor and his Psi just used wormhole.

Adding that to how long they have been playing The Game and That Healy's dad is a Thief and has been "fighting" Tarquin for a while now...

Well is it possible that they have gone this long as High level AD&D NPC's in this 3.X world?

[Gray Mage]

While it's possible, Tarquin one shotting Nale might be Nale having few HP left and Malack could simply not want armor or be a cloistered cleric.

[NerdyKris]

No. That was a one off joke that's been ignored. Nale is just weakened and not really a front line fighter. Tarquin clearly is. Remember Elan was dropped in one hit as well once.

We have proof of 3.5 being used in the past, by the way. Xykon is a sorcerer and predates everyone. The Order of the Scribble is older than Tarquin and is using 3.5 classes and races.

[Kittenwolf]

Interesting idea actually, and good catch on wormhole (though that may have been Tarquin swapping names about, or some handwaivium).

However, Nale was pretty beat up and it's safe to say that he was flat footed, so one-shotting someone with a dagger really isn't that hard.
Malack may have been another cleric variant, or been wearing a hereto un-mentioned Monk's Belt (one of the most broken items for clerics & druids)

Still, could be :)

[littlebum2002]

We have proof of 3.5 being used in the past, by the way. Xykon is a sorcerer and predates everyone. The Order of the Scribble is older than Tarquin and is using 3.5 classes and races.

Really? That wouldn't make any sense. After all, the OOTS was created using 3.0 rules. That's why V can't teleport, remember? So it would be incredibly strange if the OOTS were created in the 3.0 rule would and later upgraded to 3.5, while the OOTScribble were created, decades before, using the 3.5 rules. What races/classes are you talking about in the OOTScribble which are only in 3.5? Also, from my understanding, the Sorceror class came out in 3.0, so why is that proof of 3.5?

However, as you pointed out, the sorceror who is now a lich named Xykon was the earliest born out of the characters we know, and HE was created in the 3rd edition, so unless Ian is older than him, Haley's comment was a one-off joke and Team Tarquin is all 3rd edition.

[NerdyKris]

Sorry. 3.0, not 3.5. I just meant 1st and second are already ruled out. I don't know enough about the 3.0 to 3.5 rules to say anything about them.

Serini and Kraagor's classes rule out first edition. Girard is a sorceror, so he's 3rd.

[rgrekejin]

It could also just be that when a character is born, chronologically, has no relation whatsoever to what rule set is used in their creation. Xykon may have been born earlier than team Tarquin, but he was designed as a villain in a 3.x campaign, and was thus always 3.x. Characters used in campaigns prior to the current one may or may not have used other rules. There's no reason to assume that the flow from edition to edition need necessarily be chronological within the entire OotS universe. The order in which the campaigns were played would be more important. Yes, I know that there are no actual players for the OotS.

[RolkFlameraven]

True, but in the books (not the rule book, but books, books) Wiz and Sor are used for the same class quite a bit. Heck even Witch is used for female Wizerds a few times as has Warlock for males.

They have been made into different classes, even Witch in Pathfinder, but all have been used interchangeable in the AD&D novels, but the casting is wrong so yeah.

Still it seems so odd that the Psi would use a 2nd ED power from Dark Sun, the Vamp Clr didn't use armor AND beats people with a stick... CatGirl could be a Thief-Acrobat or something then too!

Wow, where 1st and 2nd Ed screwy or what?

[littlebum2002]

Sorry. 3.0, not 3.5. I just meant 1st and second are already ruled out. I don't know enough about the 3.0 to 3.5 rules to say anything about them.

Serini and Kraagor's classes rule out first edition. Girard is a sorceror, so he's 3rd.

LOL! Don't worry, I've never played D&D in my life. I've just read the online SRD alot to understand this comic. But yeah, I think that everyone in the current comic started in 3rd edition.

[Sir_Leorik]

The answer is in "Snips, Snails & Dragon Tales". Spoilers follow:
In "S,S&DT", the "Dragon Magazine" continuity OotS encounter dopplegangers from the "Fourth Dimension", who want to merge with their "Third-and-a-Half Dimension" counterparts, so that there will be more free time for adventures in the Fourth Dimension. 4D Vaarsuvius explains that the Fourth Dimension only recently came into existence, but that it has retroactively existed in the past as far back as creation. A similar event occurred when the "Third-and-a-Half Dimension" sprang into existence, merging with the Third Dimension; the changes wrought were retroactive, and mostly unnoticed, (though there was some weapon shrinkage). (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html) :smallwink:

It is quite possible that there was a "Second Dimension" before the "Third Dimension" sprang into existence, and a "First Dimension", "Basic Dimension" and "White Box Dimension" that predated the "Second Dimension". Even now there are rumors of something called only the "Next Dimension", which will rise up and merge with the "Fourth Dimension".

If these theories are true, Xykon, Jephton, Girard and others like them, could not have been Sorcerers in the "Second Dimension", but they might have become Sorcerers as the dimensions bled together to birth the "Third Dimension".

Got all that? Good. :smallamused:

[Sir_Leorik]

Sorry. 3.0, not 3.5. I just meant 1st and second are already ruled out. I don't know enough about the 3.0 to 3.5 rules to say anything about them.

Serini and Kraagor's classes rule out first edition. Girard is a sorceror, so he's 3rd.

Halflings could definitely be rogues in AD&D. Barbarians were introduced in "Dragon Magazine", then reintroduced in "Unearthed Arcana".

Girard could have been Dual-Classed in AD&D.

Given that Tarquin has cracked jokes about "Unearthed Arcana" (especially about female Drow and the ridiculously long list of polearms) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html), he's definitely been around since AD&D.

[Morty]

All the references to old characters using older rules were jokes that lasted two strip at most, in case of the old peasant. Usually, they were one-panel jokes. It continues to mystify me why people treat them so seriously.

Not that I have any idea how one-shotting Nale with a dagger would have been any easier in AD&D. Or how it's supposed to explain why Malack didn't use armour, since clerics were as proficient with armour in AD&D as they are in 3.x.

[Sir_Leorik]

All the references to old characters using older rules were jokes that lasted two strip at most, in case of the old peasant. Usually, they were one-panel jokes. It continues to mystify me why people treat them so seriously.

A) People here keep dissecting the jokes, so why not join in the fun;

and, B) The Giant keeps making these jokes. They're one of the running gags in the strip. :smalltongue:


Not that I have any idea how one-shotting Nale with a dagger would have been any easier in AD&D. Or how it's supposed to explain why Malack didn't use armour, since clerics were as proficient with armour in AD&D as they are in 3.x.

It doesn't matter, because Tarquin is not currently operating under the AD&D rules, he uses the 3.5 rules, same as everyone else. And given that Nale was very low on hit points, and that Tarquin could easily have a Combat Style Feat, or could even be a Warblade, explaining how he could have one-shotted Nale with a dagger is very simple.

As for Malack, he's a Lizardfolk Vampire. He probably had a very high Natural Armor Class, and maybe his Dexterity bonus was much higher than the max Dex Bonus for Heavy or Medium armor. Maybe his robes were magical (and granted an armor bonus). There are plenty of ways to explain that, very few of them requiring delving into AD&D's murky past. :smallwink:

[Amphiox]

Maybe, just maybe, when the change to 3.5 happened, it retroactively changed to the past as well? So for example when Belkar's daggers shrunk in size, that happened not because they simply shrunk on that instant, but his past was retroactively rewritten at the point when he obtained those daggers.

And the reason the Order never referred to this again after that one joke strip is because within seconds of that retcon, their very memories were rewritten and they now believe they've been 3.5 all along.

And so it is with everyone.

[Sir_Leorik]

Maybe, just maybe, when the change to 3.5 happened, it retroactively changed to the past as well? So for example when Belkar's daggers shrunk in size, that happened not because they simply shrunk on that instant, but his past was retroactively rewritten at the point when he obtained those daggers.

And the reason the Order never referred to this again after that one joke strip is because within seconds of that retcon, their very memories were rewritten and they now believe they've been 3.5 all along.

And so it is with everyone.

Nice hypothesis, but disproven by Elan singing about his six new skill points per level in the next strip. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0002.html)

[Roland Itiative]

Well, Tarquin did recently mention the original Unearthed Arcana, when he explained his knowledge of the drow sign language, so he's definitely part of the ongoing "older generations used older versions of D&D" gag. But I don't think this will ever go beyond the level of gag. Maybe Laurin just happens to have a homebrew version of an old psion ability, like Z had that 3.0 flight spell.

[NerdyKris]

Halflings could definitely be rogues in AD&D. Barbarians were introduced in "Dragon Magazine", then reintroduced in "Unearthed Arcana".

Girard could have been Dual-Classed in AD&D.

Given that Tarquin has cracked jokes about "Unearthed Arcana" (especially about female Drow and the ridiculously long list of polearms) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html), he's definitely been around since AD&D.

But there weren't sorcerors in AD&D, I thought.

[Taelas]

Halflings could definitely be rogues in AD&D. Barbarians were introduced in "Dragon Magazine", then reintroduced in "Unearthed Arcana".

AD&D is 2nd Edition, not 1st. In 1st Edition, "races" were just classes. You took levels in "Elf" or "Halfling".

(Which the Giant referenced when Belkar was knocked back to Basic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0748.html).)

[JustPlayItLoud]

AD&D is 2nd Edition, not 1st. In 1st Edition, "races" were just classes. You took levels in "Elf" or "Halfling".

(Which the Giant referenced when Belkar was knocked back to Basic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0748.html).)

AD&D had both a first and second edition with separate races and classes and everything. Original D&D (which had probably about 5 editions of its own) was a whole different ballgame that continued to evolve alongside AD&D.

[Sir_Leorik]

AD&D is 2nd Edition, not 1st. In 1st Edition, "races" were just classes. You took levels in "Elf" or "Halfling".

(Which the Giant referenced when Belkar was knocked back to Basic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0748.html).)


AD&D had both a first and second edition with separate races and classes and everything. Original D&D (which had probably about 5 editions of its own) was a whole different ballgame that continued to evolve alongside AD&D.

Guys, let's try and get the nomenclature right.

OD&D: The original "White Box", released in 1974, plus the "Blackmoor", "Greyhawk", "Eldritch Wizardry" and "Heroes, Deities and Demigods" supplements.

AD&D: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, aka "First Edition", released in 1977.

Basic D&D: A scaled down version of the OD&D rules, later repacked as the Red Box in the early 1980's, and then supplemented with other boxed sets, and rereleased as the "Rules Cyclopedia" in the early 1990's. Discontinued in 1995.

AD&D 2E: Second Edition, released in 1989.

3E or 3.X: Covers both the 3.0 rules, released in 2000, and the 3.5 revision, released in 2003.

4E: Fourth Edition, released in 2008, including the D&D Essentials products from 2010.

D&D Next: A new edition currently undergoing beta testing, set to be released in 2014.

Races being used as classes only existed in OD&D and Basic. Every other version of AD&D and D&D uses race/class combos. Sorcerers did not exist before 3E, but they would be an example of a retroactive change to the universe's game mechanics when the "Third Dimension" came along.

[Taelas]

Meh, that's what you get for trying to remember stuff that you've only been told of third hand at best. Oh well.