3.5 strongholds

[Lightlawbliss]

So I know IRL castles and such were expensive in the relevant time period, but I'm wondering if, using 3.5 prices for things, the costs in the stronghold builder's guide are still accurate (assuming appropriate cost reductions for magic). I'm mainly wondering this for two things: a common person's house and a fort.

Part of what i'm noticing is that they are charging a ton (in some cases literally) for stuff that doesn't seem like it would be nearly that hard to make. For example, a bare basics armory (aprox 20 x 20) costs 500 gp...for just the stuff in it. Iirc, that stuff is a bunch of cut wood (1 cp for 20 lbs of firewood) with maby a few extras to let it last longer. 50000 cp / 3 is 16667 cp for raw supplies. if we say 3/4 of that is wood, that 12500 cp in wood (12500 days worth of wood), 250000 lbs of wood for raw supplies. No castle I have ever heard of had a bare bones armory with THAT much in just the wood. Even if only 1/4 of the cost for supplies is in wood, that is enough wood to keep a fire going for over 11 years.

[Jack_Simth]

Granted, the prices are odd... but really, the kind of wood you sell for firewood is not the kind of wood you use to build furniture.

Also, on the first floor, you pretty much do get the walls for free (if they're wood).

[ArcturusV]

Difference being firewood is not the same as worked furniture. That's like saying a car should only cost 60 bucks because you can get a bicycle for the same price. Same sort of connection you're working with. Firewood: Random non-green wood found in some lot and roughly hacked into manageable chunks. Weapon and armor racks: Hand carved, fitted pieces of furniture designed to support a lot of weight and stability, resistant to the various nicks and dings they would take, and last for years and years.

Side note, I think Cityscape in 3.5 had things for commoner housing in it, in some side bar. I think it listed the price around 400 GP for a single story basic commoner house?

[Lightlawbliss]

I know firewood isn't the same quality as the wood a decent craftsman would use for furniture, That was simply the easiest price to get that I know is just wood.

Here, I'll try with a heavy wooden shield. 7gp for the shield, total weight 10 lbs. about 2.33 gp for materials. Let's say this is a very basic low cost shield and all the non-wood parts are .33 gp and about 4 lbs (for simple numbers to work with that make decent wood as valuable as possible). That is .5 gp per lb. 333 lbs of wood for these weapon racks if all 500 gp is the racks of solid wood, 300 lbs after some possible metal additions on high impact areas. That is still a lot of wood.

Edit: and I'm not seeing that sidebar you mentioned in cityscape, and 400gp is still a lot when a lvl 1 is lucky to have 100 gp.

[unseenmage]

I know firewood isn't the same quality as the wood a decent craftsman would use for furniture, That was simply the easiest price to get that I know is just wood.

Here, I'll try with a heavy wooden shield. 7gp for the shield, total weight 10 lbs. about 2.33 gp for materials. Let's say this is a very basic low cost shield and all the non-wood parts are .33 gp and about 4 lbs (for simple numbers to work with that make decent wood as valuable as possible). That is .5 gp per lb. 333 lbs of wood for these weapon racks if all 500 gp is the racks of solid wood, 300 lbs after some possible metal additions on high impact areas. That is still a lot of wood.

Edit: and I'm not seeing that sidebar you mentioned in cityscape, and 400gp is still a lot when a lvl 1 is lucky to have 100 gp.

Realism and D&D do not mix. Both because the system isn't built for it and because as humans we can't conceive of all the variables all of the time.

Case in point. That commoner might not be able to afford his house, but he's not allowed to either. Only adventurers and noblemen own land free and clear. And one of those two rarely really owns what they think they own.

Just my opinion, but don't try to apply the "real" to a game about the "unreal". Down that road lies madness.

[Lightlawbliss]

Realism and D&D do not mix. Both because the system isn't built for it and because as humans we can't conceive of all the variables all of the time.

Case in point. That commoner might not be able to afford his house, but he's not allowed to either. Only adventurers and noblemen own land free and clear. And one of those two rarely really owns what they think they own.

Just my opinion, but don't try to apply the "real" to a game about the "unreal". Down that road lies madness.

That assumes a Feudal system (the only system where those prices make a shred of sense). By RAW, a family of level ones in the middle of nowhere couldn't afford to live in a house made of their own hands (getting materials yourself and building it yourself don't remove all of the cost iirc).

And I have been (my definition of) crazy for most of my life so I don't really care if madness is down that road, I would just have a passing chat and continue on my way.

[unseenmage]

That assumes a Feudal system (the only system where those prices make a shred of sense). By RAW, a family of level ones in the middle of nowhere couldn't afford to live in a house made of their own hands (getting materials yourself and building it yourself don't remove all of the cost iirc).

And I have been (my definition of) crazy for most of my life so I don't really care if madness is down that road, I would just have a passing chat and continue on my way.

Less stating about the feudal system. I have no expertise in history or it's trappings. More stating that it is a game wherein a GM has full and complete control.

My apologies for assaulting your premise. There is just a difficulty in accepting that a system models magic but not economics. But perhaps that is just me. Again, no offense intended, just pointing out an observation.

[Andrewmoreton]

The price structure in D+D has no basis in Realism at all. In practice the use of gold as a currency is incredibly rare, most commoners would rarely is ever see a silver coin. In Medieval Europe almost all gold coinage was minted in Constaninople , the annual income of the King of England is pretty much negligible by D+D Standards.
Further the D+D Economy is built around a type of person the 'Adventurer' which did not exist historically. At one point I worked out that the 8th level pc's I had could each afford 200 War elephants which places them at the same level or better than the City State of Carthage or an Indian Mahragah.
There are several published settings which are closer to an actual medieval economy , otherwise just arbitarily change things to make it work as you think it should.

[Lightlawbliss]

I don't really care if the materials they chose for their currency. The buying power of that currency is what I care about. Most of dnd is within explainable prices. The cost of a house is my primary worry, as it is the hardest to explain in addition to being part of almost everyone's life.

Edit:
Less stating about the feudal system. I have no expertise in history or it's trappings. More stating that it is a game wherein a GM has full and complete control.

Lords and other higher powers owning everything is almost always (iirc) Feudalism or Communism. Since we obviously aren't talking communism (to new a system and not nearly as usable for adventurers) then Lords is almost guaranteed to be feudalism.

[Cirrylius]

At one point I worked out that the 8th level pc's I had could each afford 200 War elephants which places them at the same level or better than the City State of Carthage or an Indian Mahragah.

:smallconfused:
Carthage was a bunch of peasants living under 200 elephants?