Would Malack have gone along with Tarquin's plan?

[goodyarn]

Tarquin's plan was to maneuver Malack into permanently giving up his revenge against Nale. Do you think Malack would have gone along with that? I'm not so sure.

Tarquin often urges people to set aside their scruples for the sake of a strategic advantage. He's good at it. But sometimes he overdoes it. Tarquin couldn't understand why Nale killed Malack, but we all can, can't we?

So, if I wonder if Malack would have ultimately done something similar, had Nale proved more competent.

[nobodyknows]

It's hard to say. I mean, if Tarquin persuades most of the group excluding Malack, then I think Malack would have agreed. Malack values his alliance with Tarquin's group, and he can put aside his grudge for the sake of business. It's just that things in the group would probably be rocky for awhile and maybe some special compensation of some form would be given to Malack for his patience.

[Sabeki]

I don't think so. Sure, Malack might have held off during the quest, but after Nale finished his purpose, and being useful, Malack would slit his throat like that.
Also, Nobodyknows posting that we could never tell makes me laugh.

[BlackDragonKing]

I think in a way, Malack might have come around to seeing the benefit in it if he couldn't do it right away.

He would hate working with Nale, but if Tarquin was smart, he'd get Nale far away from Malack so he could be part of the team without constantly grinding his best friend's teeth in what passed between them before. Malack, for his part...if Nale fails, his soul is Malack's to harvest. If he doesn't, Malack would outlive the rest of the party anyway, and he would honor Tarquin's wishes out of respect for their friendship until it was just him and Nale left, at which point Malack wold slaughter Nale and proceed with his plans for the continent.

[The_Final_Stand]

Honestly, I doubt it. We saw how Malack flipped out when he felt that Tarquin was putting his own family above Malack's, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html) and that was with the son that didn't kill his spawn. To work with Nale, the man who killed his children, on anything approaching a permanent basis would likely have been too much for Malack.

[Jiggs]

Would, could, should, ... If anything from the past few comics, I have learned that speculation about things to happen is a dangerous thing ;)
And speciation about what might have happened, the Giant alone knows the answer to this.
Everyone in Tarquins Team seems to be highly pragmatic.
This is their first priority.
We also don't know about the quarrel Nale and Malack had, so speculating about weather it would be possible for them (Nale also) to go along with Tarquins plans we simply can't say.
Well we can say that Nale refused this and this led to his death by his father.
But apart from this? If Nale had known that his father would kill him, when he reacted as he did, would he have done it?
Speculation.
If Tarquin had the support of the rest of his team, had promised Malack an even bigger Empire and people to sacrifice to his God because of the help of Nale (and Nale had submitted to them) woulda, coulda, shoulda ...

[phobiandarkmoon]

Possibly - but he might have demanded that he works in a different empire than the Empire of Blood, or that Nale does, to avoid the confrontation.

[Warren Dew]

It's hard to say. I mean, if Tarquin persuades most of the group excluding Malack, then I think Malack would have agreed. Malack values his alliance with Tarquin's group, and he can put aside his grudge for the sake of business. It's just that things in the group would probably be rocky for awhile and maybe some special compensation of some form would be given to Malack for his patience.
I tend to agree, supposing that Malack had Durkula to console him.

If not, I think Tarquin would have had to - and been able to - keep putting Malack off temporarily until he died.

[factotum]

I think he would have had to. He wouldn't have been able to stand against the other five united, and if he struck out on his own there's no way he would be able to get into as good a position to get his Nergal-worshipping empire in place for a while, so sheer pragmatism ought to encourage him to go along with the majority. That's not to say that Nale couldn't have a mysterious accident at some point in the palace, of course...

[eilandesq]

I'd say we have our answer, in spite of Malack being gone before he would have been obliged to take an explicit stand. Malack *saw* the Order standing in concealment and chose not to reveal them. One might think that he was simply respecting his promise to Durkon not to kill them, but if Malack was genuinely committed to the mission, he was far too practical (as proven by his willingness to at least delay vengeance in the name of business) to leave the proven to be dangerous Order loose when they had a history of being involved in the destruction of other Gates. Malack had known Tarquin for decades--it is unlikely that he would miss Tarquin's hidden intent to use a successful mission to justify keeping Nale alive and as part of the group, though he certainly would have at least argued against it. He knew that the Order would probably continue to try to destroy the Gate if the Guild did not finish them, which would mean (if the Order was successful) that Nale had failed and Tarquin's predicted line of argument would be negated (Malack openly points the likely consequences of failure out in the second panel of #906, just before his demise). He also offered no objection to sending Z's demon to finish off the Order during #905--only offering the equivalent of a shrug before allowing Durkula to send his along as well--meaning his motive to protect them was limited at best. It might not stand up as proof of intent in a court of law, but it's enough to convince me--Malack was trying to sabotage Nale and would have strenuously objected to a permanent removal of Nale's death sentence.

[Icedaemon]

Excellent and, I believe, correct analysis, Eilandesq.

That said, the other points also stand. Malack would probably not have killed Nale himself if the rest of the party agreed with Tarquin, but he would have done his best to ensure the situation never got to the others seeing any value in Nale to doom him.

[gerryq]

Excellent and, I believe, correct analysis, Eilandesq.

That said, the other points also stand. Malack would probably not have killed Nale himself if the rest of the party agreed with Tarquin, but he would have done his best to ensure the situation never got to the others seeing any value in Nale to doom him.

I was thinking along the same lines.

It could be argued that Malack did avenge himself on Nale, in a sense, when he let the OOTS live. Roy blew the Gate, and Nale had no pyramid to be defended, or to hide in, or to say Malack was inside. [Of course if there were still a pyramid, there'd still be Team Evil, and one unholy mess would be developing...]

That said, if Rich wanted to show Malack passively sabotaging Nale, he could have had Malack look at the stone block after Nale ran out, say "Hmmm..." and quietly follow Nale. Maybe that would have been rubbing it in, though. In the end, poor Mal never knew what hit him.

[Synesthesy]

Nobody knows Malack better then Tarquin. They staid togheter for 35 years. I think that if Tarquin said so, it would work.

Malack had new spawn now, he had Durkula to care. Maybe Malack would give up revenge for the sake of his new family.

[Zmeoaice]

Of course, even if Malack was willing, Nale has been wanting to kill Malack for 13 years.

[AstralFire]

No, I think we're meant to see this as being where Elan emotionally (rather than just morally) is superior to his father; Tarquin loses his ability to totally get people as soon as they stop being just pawns to him. Malack wasn't a pawn, Malack was genuinely his friend, and he overestimated his control over Malack. Nale wasn't a pawn, Nale was his son, and he totally misread Nale.

Meanwhile, he's read (with unerring accuracy, almost) the plans of those who mean nothing to him. Family is very important to Tarquin and has been useful to him, but it is also his weakness because he doesn't recognize that he loses rationality on the subject.

[GoldenArcher823]

I think that Malack would have had to eventually take revenge, Tarquin could hold him back for only so long.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

I suspect "long range planning" takes on a whole new flavor when you're a couple hundred years old and don't age.

If Malack could really make Nale suffer in a satisfying way, would he be able to wait another 10, 20, 50, 75 years to make that happen? Why not? He's not necessarily in any rush. How patient is a vampire? A vampire with a high wisdom score?

We still don't know what the deal was between those two, why did Nale kill Malack's kids? Why did Nale want to kill Malack? There is history and backstory there which we may never get since both principles are dead. Without knowing the details its hard to say how long Malack would be able to play nice and get along with his party.

[angry_bear]

See, I'm guessing that if the roles were reversed, and one of Malack's spawn killed Nale, only to show up later; Tarquin would put his feelings aside and work with them. Tarquin would know what he'd do in that situation, and assumed that any of his teammates would do the same. Whether he was right or wrong about that is moot; but I'm guessing that was his reasoning.

[Onyavar]

Would/could/might/probably and the likes are vain possibilities. Still:

- If Nale had captured the Gate: Tarquin could easily have managed Malack to accept Nale as assistant in one of the other Empires. Just as he explained in 913. Especially since Malack got Durkon out of this deal.
- After Nales plan to capture the Gate went total disaster: I don't see how Tarquin could persuade Malack that Nale could enrich the team. Nale had blundered strategically and tactically and Malack had closely observed it. Nales after-capture-plan had been unsound as Tarquin knew, too. Malack would have called Tarquin an oathbreaker, and rightfully so.
- After Nales plan a desaster and Malack dead: I don't see how Tarquin could have spun the tale for Laurin to accept him into the team. "smooth things over"? Hardly. Laurin clearly valued Malack just as much as Tarquin did. Nales only success was in murdering his prospective team cleric - not much to advertise with.

Now, even if Tarquin managed to include Nale into his Empire scheme team: Nale didn't want to be part of it. Nale was impatient and egomaniacal. Sucking it up and serving the plans of his father for another decade? No can do, especially not after being his own man for two years. He'd have rebelled or run away or been a pain in the teams collective rears. So even if Malack had gone along, NALE hadn't, under whatever premise he got included.

[Obscure Blade]

Now, even if Tarquin managed to include Nale into his Empire scheme team: Nale didn't want to be part of it. Nale was impatient and egomaniacal. Sucking it up and serving the plans of his father for another decade? No can do, especially not after being his own man for two years. He'd have rebelled or run away or been a pain in the teams collective rears. So even if Malack had gone along, NALE hadn't, under whatever premise he got included.Yes. Just look at what happened in 913; he couldn't wait to get in Tarquin's and Lauren's face about killing Malack, then denying he wanted anything from Tarquin despite his total lack of resources or allies and the suicidal position that put him in.

At the very best he would have spent his time provoking everyone else in the group. Almost certainly he would have either tried to escape, or more likely tried another coup. There's no way he would have gone along with it.

[goodyarn]

No, I think we're meant to see this as being where Elan emotionally (rather than just morally) is superior to his father; Tarquin loses his ability to totally get people as soon as they stop being just pawns to him. Malack wasn't a pawn, Malack was genuinely his friend, and he overestimated his control over Malack. Nale wasn't a pawn, Nale was his son, and he totally misread Nale.

This. I would add that Nale always sees Tarquin as his father. Too much so, if anything.

And further, I do not agree with those who say Nale killed Malack's children to spite his father. Why would Tarquin care about Malack's children when he barely cares about his own? No, I think Nale's motive was jealousy. He saw how much Malack meant to Tarquin, and how little he himself did.

On that point, I wonder if Malack had killled Nale, would Tarquin have felt the need to avenge his son? I don't really see it happening. And sure, Tarquin could justify that decision to himself in an "eye-for-an-eye" kind of way, and also in a "Nale is worthless, while Malack is a huge asset" kind of way. But, really, what it boils down to is this:

"My best friend and my son are feuding. If my best friend kills my son, I will let it go. If my son kills my best friend, I will then kill my son to avenge my best friend."

And I think that tells you all you need to know about how poorly Tarquin treated Nale.

[theinsulabot]

I think its worth noting that tarquin didn't initiate his plan until the page after he learned malack had spawned again in the form of durkula. Up until that point he had personally oversaw the interaction of Name and malack prior to that point to prevent problems. While its clear he fundamentally misunderstood nale, in comic evidence suggests he had correctly predicted malack's behavior repeatedly.

Most notably in fact, he correctly predicted malack, despite his desire for revenge, as long as he had a new thrall to distract him, would not consider killing nale until the rule of their grouping, namely business before pleasure, was satisfied.

Frankly I think Tarquin knew malack well enough to predict his actions. even to the idea of malack waiting for tarquin to snuff it and then move against nale, Tarquin probably privately believed that with a dozen or so years of level gain and with the resources of his father's empire at his beck and call, eventually Nale could be brought into a position where he would have little to fear from even someone as powerful as malack

Or to put it another way, its clear tarquin did not understand his son. I question the idea he did not understand his friend.

[Reathin]

My theory: If the whole team tried to get him to accept? He'd be furious, but would probably accept...temporarily. Malack's immortal and pretty aware that his friendship, however sincere, with the gang is a temporary phase. Tarquin is likely to die before Nale, unless (and admittedly this is a pretty big unless) Nale does something incredibly stupid and gets himself killed. All Malack has to do is wait for some or all of the gang to pass on, then he can do what he likes with Nale. With the inherited resources they have, Nale's not going to be able to run or hide anywhere.

[martianmister]

Malack expected it:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png "Bah! I should have known you would go warm-blooded on this one. It's an open-and-shut bounty!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0723.html)

[denthor]

Yes.

As stated Malack would just wait until Tarquin was dead. Malack knew he had time on his side and was careful.

The only thing that Malack did wrong was not enlist Belkar to finish the job.

Because you know that is murder and very fun for Belkar