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View Full Version : Raising the Optimization Floor



Khatoblepas
2013-08-22, 12:35 PM
So something that bugs me a lot when I think about playing D&D 3.5, is that optimization is kind of required for some classes to be useful. They have a low optimization floor. Everyone knows a wizard can bone themselves by picking nothing but blasting spells, but a wizard can also, with optimization, rise up and become more than a god. A Beguiler, on the other hand, built poorly, is still formidable, just not as formidable as a well built Beguiler. So instead of thinking about how to raise the optimization ceiling on some of the classic classes, why don't we raise the floor, instead, and make their baseline usefulness Tier 3, instead of leaving new players to flounder in the dark depths of Build Hell? After all, noone can say bards suck if you make the basic bard one that doesn't suck. Let's take it as an example:

In order for the bard to really shine, you need to give them Dragonfire Inspiration, and all those magical trinkets that up their Inspire Courage. This pidgeonholes some players, who think "I don't want dragonblood on my bard, I just want a good bard". So, the solution to that is to.... make Dragonfire Inspiration part of the class itself, and remove it as a feat from the game. Bards now get 1/2 their bard level + 1 in Inspire Courage (keep the IC boosting items, lose Words of Creation), and one of their class abilities (let's call them part of their Bardic Repetoire) is to add d6 energy damage instead of their basic attack and damage bonus. We can add in other songs to their repetoire, like Inspire Awe, or the other, less good ACFs that noone in their right mind would add in, but would do nicely to buffer out the class. It gives them some more options, it powers them up a bit, but not enough to kick them up to game breaking, and it makes the player feel good that they're making everyone around them rock. Just using their basic ability is enough, but with some intelligent choices, they can shine. And if they don't? Then... they shine a little less brightly. They don't sit there like a dumb rock.

On it's own, nothing to really write home about, and does almost exactly the same thing as the basic bard, but with fewer obscure feats and items.

On another note, the Ranger: It's wholly underwhelming as a class, and I really don't like it. So the changes for the Ranger:
- The Scout class is merged with it off the bat. Maybe remove some of the Scout's other abilities that would just clog up the class description.
- Full animal companion. It's just that easy.
- CL is equal to level, not 1/2 class level.
- Sword of the Arcane Order built in - to represent the mage spells the class had in previous editions.
- I'm sure there are other things to be done with this one.

These are just two classes I would do, to try and make their optimization floors higher - but not their ceilings. Basically making them foolproof, like the Tome of Battle classes, where any poor options you pick will not make your character useless, just not as powerful as other options. I think it might throw some players a bone, who might want to play a certain class but not know how to do it. And while system mastery is fun and all, I don't want to subject my players to having to know it if tweaking around 3.5 isn't their hobby. Some classes are unsalvagable (The Fighter becomes the Warblade, the Paladin becomes the Crusader, the Monk becomes the Swordsage, the Rogue becomes the Factotum), but some of the other classes might just be good enough to save.

What would you do, to raise the optimization floor of classes?

Lateral
2013-08-22, 01:30 PM
Well, that's easier to do with some classes than others. Paladin is easy- make Smite per-encounter, switch everything to either WIS or CHA to reduce MAD, expand their spellcasting to Bard progression (their existing list already has some nice picks, so just expand it a little), and Bob's your uncle. Fighter, on the other hand, would take a lot of work to get to Tier 3- really, for nonmagical classes, the jump to Tier 3 is tough. Definitely give it Zhentarim and Dungeoncrasher as default class features (without giving up the usual two feats for Dungeoncrasher), but really, without a complete overhaul it's not going to be versatile enough to break that T4/T3 wall.

That said, here's what I'd do:

Paladin- as above, Smite per-encounter (and, perhaps, include smite feats like Charging Smite and Ranged Smite as class features), allow WIS- or CHA- focus rather than needing both, and Bard-progression divine spells.

Warmage- make their spell list suck less. Add some BFC, debuffing, and utility options. Make its spell list on par with Beguiler or Dread Necromancer. Also, maybe improve Warmage Edge a little bit. Of course, this already exists. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131346)

Healer- same deal. Make that spell list suck less. Also already exists. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118)

DR27
2013-08-22, 02:08 PM
Thing is, smart gamers have tried to do this with re-works that involved community feedback. I think they succeeded, but it's damned hard to get DM's to accept them because they are so used to low-tier suck.

Fighter Fix (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1977.0) - might not be T3, but is no longer mired in suck. Dunno how much the optimization floor was raised, but adaptable feats really help.
Marshal Retool (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186681) - is basically an amazing full-party buffer that definitely is versatile enough for T3, baked right in - optimization floor raised.

Before asking what people would do, look at the work that has come before.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-08-22, 02:27 PM
I agree with the motivation-- in the long run, low floors are probably much more dangerous to people's enjoyment of the game than high ceilings. What would I do? Something like this, probably (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275054).