The Gamers: Hands of Fate

[Drakeburn]

IT'S HERE!!! THE THIRD GAMERS MOVIE IS ON YOUTUBE RIGHT NOW!!!

This is not bot spam, this is the real deal!

The Gamers: Hands of Fate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp9h_6g1Ik0)

[pita]

Just posting to confirm, haven't seen it yet, but this is legit.
Edit while watching - This is making me way too uncomfortable. I'm not at home enough with my nerdiness to fully enjoy these movies any more. Even at my most hardcore, I was never into LARPing.
Also, the vast majority of the cast has decent comedic timing and no acting skill.

[Memphos]

Well, I wanted to see more D&D, but it's a good movie. The acting did improve a lot

[BWR]

The movie makes a lot more sense if you ever got into the L5R CCG.

[Saph]

I was having L5R flashbacks too! Was wondering if I was the only one. :smallbiggrin:

Watched the whole movie . . . had mixed feelings.

I nearly turned the movie off three or four times in the first half-hour. Cass was so bad he was cringe-worthy. Not 'likeable bad', but 'oh-god-go-away-stop-talking'. He did get gradually more likeable over the course of the movie.

Natalie was the opposite – she started out as sympathetic, but got gradually less and less so. By the end I was honestly wondering why Cass was still chasing her – she came across as humourless and a bit self-righteous.

Once the actual tournament storyline got going, I thought it was surprisingly good – I didn't see the main plot twists coming, and I liked the fantasy-world scenes.

The gamer guy (can't remember his name) planning to burn the mascot was CREEPY. I don't know WHAT they were thinking with that – that was full-on psychotic. Even some of Natalie's outbursts were triggering my Crazy Gamer Alarm.

I guess some of the dysfunctionality is funny to watch . . . but if gamers were actually like the movie portrays I would have given up on gaming years ago.

[BWR]

I think it's the weakest of the three. The first is still the best, perhaps because I can relate to it more than the others (I've never struggled to tell a story with players that don't cooperate, and I never really got into the L5R ccg scene).
Still, it was a good movie and I really felt the L5R love, and my gf (who's a bit more into the tournaments than I) identified with it even more.
I didn't have a problem with the psychotic gamer; that was just funny, especially with the "Resovoir Dogs" homage.

Cass was a **** in the last movie and this was just the same. Last time he learned that games can be fun to play without just winning at the mechanics. Now he learned that some ccgs have a deep and complicated storyline and a strong community, one where the love of the story, setting and the characters is at least as strong a driving force as just winning (as the movie points out, unlike poker and M:tG).

Eidt: For those not familiar with the background, some of the Gamers crew are big L5R fans. To the extent that the Crab are awarded a place in the credits of the first movie. You see some of the L5R products in the various movies. They wanted to do a movie based on the sort of community and fun that the L5R game,the community, ccg and rpg, has. During some of the filming, the head of AEG, the company that produces L5R, leaned over to a colleague and said "we're making this game". If the Gamers Kickstarter hit a certain goal, they said they would produce limited 'ccg' of R9E. Much of the L5R community responded to this with "shut up and take my money".
So, this really was a love song to the L5R game and community. I mean, where else will you have people holding a LARP funeral for the death of a card?

[Drakeburn]

I think it's the weakest of the three. The first is still the best, perhaps because I can relate to it more than the others (I've never struggled to tell a story with players that don't cooperate, and I never really got into the L5R ccg scene).
Still, it was a good movie and I really felt the L5R love, and my gf (who's a bit more into the tournaments than I) identified with it even more.
I didn't have a problem with the psychotic gamer; that was just funny, especially with the "Resovoir Dogs" homage.

Agreed. I realized that I laughed more with the two previous movies rather than this one. It had its good moments here and there, but it simply isn't the same as the other Gamer movies.

[TheFallenOne]

I think a big problem was that the ingame-scenes were so disconnected from the out-of-game scenes. In the previous movies their storylines were interwoven, the characters and the players both played by the same actor. Here, almost all the scenes of Buxtehude and Stupid Hair Guy were thoroughly uninteresting. Repetitive summoning and questing, a medium awareness plot that never went anywhere, bit of a yawny lovestory. Only real relevant part was the final twist in the end.

It certainly had good parts. I loved when the Legacy surrounded Cas all menacingly and then he punched one in the nose because he thought this is where things are going, and his complete No Sell to the Legacy leader's speech. I can get behind a plot focused on Cas. Of the gamers he was the most interesting character and the actor is competent enough to make the douchebag protagonist thing work.
I wish the relationship with the love interest didn't stay so superficial, all they ever talk about is the game. And her complaining he doesn't know anything about her, that she's just a stereotype to him. It's a bit hypocritical I think, both because she keeps pushing him away instead of showing the rest of her and perhaps more damning because the movie itself shows us nothing but a stereotype after anvildropping how bad that is. What did we learn about Natalie really that isn't directly related to this card game?
Well, I guess her first scene where she totally crushed every insult of that one gamer was character-defining. From his facial reactions I also like to think her attitude is what got Cas interested enough to go to such lengths, not just 'hot gamer girl'. I think they should have dwelled a bit more on the why here considering this is what the entire plot was based on.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I plan on watching this, if only because Matt Forbeck tied it into Dangerous Games: How to Play (http://www.forbeck.com/product/dangerous-games-how-to-play/), which was a fun book.

[tommhans]

i liked it, not as good as nr 2 nor nr 1 but still good enough!

nr 2 is my fav, just love the "hide behind the mount of dead bards" and "do you wanna tune my... mandolin?" :D :smallcool:

but yeah, didn't like that psycopath part, wtf was that? but yeah, ninja dragon riders ftw anyways!

[Kyberwulf]

I don't know if I am 100% accurate, I think the main reason the stuff at Gen con had to be shot on those days. I think that limited what they could do. If that being the case, I think it turned out pretty good.

I liked it... in someways it was better then 2... Had more of a story to it. 2 was all about the in jokes of playing d&d. 3 was a better attempt at a story.

[Calemyr]

I have to agree that it was the weakest of the series for me, but that's largely because I don't have the time or money for collectible card games or miniature war games. They spent two games catering my love of RPGs, but then gave us a third game where the RPG aspect was not just neglected, but intentionally neglected to the point I wanted a remake of the end of the Gamers I. It felt like a commercial using characters I'd grown to love to sell a product I couldn't care much less about. It was disappointing.

I liked the characters for the most part.
* Lodge and Joanna don't get much screen time, but then their arcs are largely complete. At least the Purple Ninja got another cameo.
* Gary's evolution is pretty predictable to me: I always saw him as very intelligent, but clinging to childish things because adult things are usually dull and tedious. As he was forced to be more adult, I expected that clinging to descend into some form of psychosis. Still, a lot his antics felt tacked on, derailing his growth just because there wasn't enough insanity elsewhere.
* Leo didn't do much, but it was interesting to see him switch from a man-child cohort into a supportive mentor.
* Cass, on the other hand, does a lot - and it flows. He really hasn't matured since the last movie and continues to belittle anything he doesn't personally value. He doesn't even mature much in this movie.
* Natalie: I loved her acid tongue and, while I admit she got increasingly insufferable as time went on, all I had to do is remind myself that her love interest was Cass and suddenly it all made sense again. I was really hoping Cass would eventually say "I don't care if we ever do go on a date. I'm having too much fun watching you verbally eviscerate these guys."

The story itself is pretty good, despite its focus on something I could give a rat's tail about. Cass's no-nonsense confidence, practicality, and well-disguised wit make him an interesting lead despite the fact that he's a colossal ass.

My only major complaint, besides my own detachment from the subject, was that nobody punches Natalie's friend throughout the movie. Natalie's fanaticism I can live with, because its subdued for the most part and grounded pretty well. Her friend's, however, is just annoying and every bit as obsessed and over-invested as the Legacy. I mean, I understand why he never gets struck, of course. It would be like kicking a puppy.

But anyone who's ever had to take care of a puppy knows how obnoxious a puppy can be at times.

[Pink]

Gonna echo a lot of the comments here. Enjoyed it, but probably ranked the lowest of the movies so far. I wanted more RPG, CCGs aren't something I particularly relate with and definitely not on the investment scale of the type shown. That being said, it wasn't as though I went in blind, I knew there would be a CCG focus, and I accepted it. The Gen Con additions kinda made up for it, especially since I couldn't go this year so it was nice to have some vicarious con experience.

Gary's antics, while a bit of comic relief, seemed a bit odd. Actually I'm a bit disappointed because I remember last year at gen con, they were talking about how Gary's story would be how he was going to take over GMing and how he was struggling with the challenges and such. Him in barbarian costume was one of the advertisement images, I assumed a GMPC he'd be running. Am I the only one who remembers that? What happened to that story?

Also...I felt that the apple of life was handled clumsily. I mean, this is a card he is explicitly told he can't play, why would he even have it in his deck? It wouldn't have taken much to show how it accidental got in his deck. Have the scene with Leo warning him about it, have Cas place it in a "no-no" pile of cards while deck building but something (fan, table bump, Gary walking by, looking at the card and sticking it on the deck building pile instead) moves it to the deck building pile. Then, when he gets into a tournament, draws his first hand and sees it, have a moment of shock and "Oh ****!". That way it's still set up as Chekov's gun, but it makes sense why he has it in his deck.

[Kyberwulf]

Personally, I think they did good with this movie. The last movie was about RPGs, and it would have been way more repetitive if they did another one. Especially since it's called "Gamers," and not RPGer's.

[Pink]

Personally, I think they did good with this movie. The last movie was about RPGs, and it would have been way more repetitive if they did another one. Especially since it's called "Gamers," and not RPGer's.

While I won't argue with this, it still feels a bit clumsy to have almost no RPG content at all, when your return audience is loyal because the first two movies were almost totally RPG focused. They coulda weened us off a bit gentler.

[BWR]

As I mentioned before, it's not so much ccgs in general as L5R specifically, which is why the movie works a lot better if you know the setting, the players, the staff and the rituals. Just being a big M:tG or Yu-gi-oh player wouldn't work, I'm pretty sure. The Legacy was a rip on the Dynasty (a group of players who have made somewhat unpopular story decisions in the past). There was a Team Vag shirt there (my gf's a proud member). AEG, all the L5R players, actual L5R cards and games, Bryan Reese who is lead designer for the CCG, etc.

In short, this was more of a niche movie than the previous two, which is probably its greatest weakness.

[AdmiralCheez]

As others have said, there was way more of a focus on card games this time around, as opposed to the first two, which were RPG-focused. I think that ended up hurting it in the long run. I was never much of a card game player to begin with; I think I had a grand total of one Magic the Gathering deck. I've never gone to tournaments or cons, and before this came out, I had never even heard of L5R, so a lot of the film's content and references were lost on me. Maybe if had played it, I would get it, but I just can't picture a card game with an overall storyline that the players can influence. The logistics of something like that are mind-boggling.

I'm sure it was a great and funny movie if you were into those things, but for me it just felt really slow and un-engaging. It felt like the RPG group really didn't have anything to do the whole movie. Well, other than sit around and have their game interrupted, of course.

[Dumbledore lives]

Despite the move being very focused on a ccg I knew nothing about I still enjoyed parts of it. I thought the 'storyline' inside the game was very weak and pointless, especially because it never really worked up to anything, but the real life stuff was all pretty decent. My friend who knows next to nothing about ccgs at all enjoyed it too, so I don't know I feel that it was hurt by it in that it will less lasting appeal, but it was still not a bad film.

[BWR]

Maybe if had played it, I would get it, but I just can't picture a card game with an overall storyline that the players can influence. The logistics of something like that are mind-boggling.

It varies. It's not like winners of tournaments get to plan out a detailed story. Mostly they get to name cards, have one person or faction win some ingame position (like leader of the Imperial armies or something) or similar. A lot of it is basically 'insert name here' for the week's story. Yes, there are weekly stories for free by dedicated staff, in addition to stories with each card expansion, larger stories for base sets, etc. etc. But most of the wins are rather minimal. The Story Team have planned out what they want to happen in broad strokes and play with the details as they come in. Sometimes things work out the way they planned, other times not.

Sometimes you get big events. A few years back there was an enormous event, which was slightly referenced in the movie, called Race for the Throne. No need to expand on what the grand prize was but in addition to winning card tournaments there were dozens of extra things to do to help your faction win, including charity drives, costume constests, trivia contests, homebrew for the rpg and ccg, and more. This took place over the better part of two years, iirc with intense participation from a lot of players.

[Dienekes]

Saw it. It was pretty funny, but not up to the last two.

Some comments, Gary being psychotic and attempting to burn the mascot in a Reservoir Dogs reference was absolutely hilarious. Along those lines, I should not have found the "I will deny you three times" line nearly as funny as I did, same with pissing off China.


I wish the relationship with the love interest didn't stay so superficial, all they ever talk about is the game. And her complaining he doesn't know anything about her, that she's just a stereotype to him. It's a bit hypocritical I think, both because she keeps pushing him away instead of showing the rest of her and perhaps more damning because the movie itself shows us nothing but a stereotype after anvildropping how bad that is. What did we learn about Natalie really that isn't directly related to this card game?

Why should she share her further emotions to a guy she has no interest with and who mocks her hobbies? I wouldn't show any emotions to a girl who treated me like Cass treats her, and would definitely keep pushing her away.

Anyway the weaknesses of the movie.

Yeah, I am not very interested in card games. I guess if I was that would increase the humor of this movie. But one thing that got me was the stupidity of the game designers. I played MTG for awhile and I know, if a combo becomes too powerful for tourney play then next edition or pack or whatever will nerf that tactic. Not-the-Sorceress was talking like starvation decks were going to be the end of the game.

Cass/Gamer Girl was trying at best. Now I respected Gamer Girls continuous string of insults and put downs but I kept wondering when Cass would get the hint that she wasn't into him. Cass comes off as very creepy this movie, creepier than Gary really. Gary at least I can understand, I mean who hasn't wanted to burn an annoying mascot before? I know I have (One day Spongebob, one day).

Dear God they overused that searching for the heroes opening. I get it, the world starts over repeatedly. Yay. It did not need to be done 20+ times to get that point across. Also, Gamer Girl, don't get so caught up that Fictional Lover Boy died. Cass had the right mentality that time. I mean yeah, it's sad, sure. But this is the war your trying to win, there will be losses, the army is what you need to worry about.

On the topic of the card game though. I found the concept of the story of a game world tied to tournament play and dead characters remain dead, for good, is actually pretty awesome and can make some interesting and surprising stories. But apparently that only happens during "war" periods. I would always pick war then, it would make a way more interesting story than various ways for the nations to hold hands.

Man some day I'm gonna try a LARP. Worst thing that happens is I think it's dumb and leave early. Best thing is it turns into a Rolemodels style battle royale.

[Mordar]

So, disclosure: I was a pretty big L5R fan, knew lots of the key players, was "friends" with at least a few key Dynasty players (Hawke, Jordan, etc), and was around for a lot of the big moments. I understand Gamer Girl's perspective (as a very early member of HDM!) and real link to the game and characters - thinking back to the IRL "Kisada's Wake" organized by Zen Faulkes at Gen Con, and the Hitomi Fan Club. Mock it though you may, the connection was as real as that people have to Firefly, XFiles, or those other make believe people in make believe worlds.

Because of all of that, in addition to the overall quality of the work, I loved Hands of Fate. I might have liked some more RPG scenes as well, but it would have been hard to fit into the narrative. At least we didn't have any more PC shipping...though we did miss out on hiding behind the pile of dead bards.

I do think Cass "got it" by the end...I think he understood that card-flopping can be as involved and motivating as dice-chucking, so there was growth. I think the ending would have been cheapened had there been relationship closure for Cass as there was for Gary.

I didn't think Cass was too stalkery...though it got a little close at times...and the nature of Cass very much seems that her becoming "harder to get" would only further fuel the competitive side of his personality.

Some of the "in game" scenes were a little...off, I guess, but still manageable. I wonder what I missed though, because I didn't see Matt's time in the real dungeon. Anyone know where that was?

Anyway, really liked it - got to watch it in 20-30 minute chunks, so it was like a serial for me, and maybe that enhanced my enjoyment (and limited the displeasure others have mentioned about repeated sequences and such).

ASIDE regarding "stupidity of designers" and story impact of tourneys:
While I understand a couple of the comments below from people not familiar with L5R, what I think Dienekes is missing isn't that a new cycle couldn't fix a potential card problem (e.g. Thragtusk every freaking where)...but that a unified effort to push the game and story in a direction the alienates a core group of players, particularly in a game with so much cross-over gaming beyond even the LARPs (L5R had a successful RPG, a less-successful miniatures game and a host of novels) could really spell doom for the game.

Removing major elements or mechanics from the game as suggested in the story could be the initial event that triggers a exodus. After all, if "R9E" became just another Magic, why not play Magic?

Anyway, loved it...2 was lighter, fluffier and "funner", but I think this one was better both in terms of story and technical skill.

- M

[Janus]

I liked the movie overall, but I don't plan on watching it again anytime soon.

-Gary beating up a mascot was cathartic, and while the Reservoir Dogs reference was funny, I thought it was going a bit too far. The characters' behavior in Dorkness Rising was always believable, and this seemed to sacrifice character for comedy.
Loved his choked up, "you can't take the sky from me" at the end.

-I wanted more Joanna and Lodge. I don't mind the romance (particularly since it felt natural in the last movie), paladins are my favorite class, and I mostly sided with Lodge on a lot of the debates in the last film (not that I think he was right in every situation, of course).

-I have no interest in CCGs. The idea of players influencing the storyline is interesting, though. I also missed the connection between the players and their characters.

-I know there was a big message about all nerds/geeks needing to get along, but dang it, some of those LARPers were just so obnoxious that I wanted to recruit the local high school football team to give them trouble.

-Natalie/Gamer Girl was annoying. I agree with the sentiment that she was seen as nothing more than Gamer Girl because she didn't give any hint until the very end that there was anything else to her life, especially with how personally she took the game.

-Not a fan of the increased amount of profanity in this one.

-Loved Lodge's monologue at the con's beginning.

-...really like the giant turnip joke for some reason. :smallbiggrin:

[Starbuck_II]

So the ending... is there going to be a Gamers 4 so we can finally deal The Shadow properly I wondered?

I wonder if the cast will be D20 modern while The Shadow stays D20 fantasy since they are really sucked there.

[Hopeless]

A couple of questions;

1) Is that table bolted to the ground?

2) There are at least five chairs and a couple of other objects in that room let alone what's on the table, right?:smallsmile:

Shadow is behaving a bit like Cass from appearances, there was that throwaway line about the girl by the djinn something about a shadow makes me wonder if there's a crossover link since a certain mentor in Hand of Fate has strong suggestions his character was the grandfather of the princess?

My opinion he's drawn his sword and the groups response should be to overturn that table and use it as a shield so they can escape from that room if they don't flatten Shadow before that!:smallamused:

Fruit can be used as thrown weapons and we've already seen one member of the group has only just got over his dragon ninja loss... somehow I think the Shadow is the one in trouble!:smallwink:

[JoshL]

I liked it. Definitely my least favorite of the three, but definitely had great moments. Some of the card stuff I didn't get thankfully was explained to me by my girlfriend, who was a card gamer. I feel it was a lot less "cinematic" than the previous films. The first two were low budget films that felt like they were trying to feel like big screen films. This felt "smaller" to me; maybe the reduced prominence of the score (and otherwise weak sound design), the inherent problems with filming at a con (lighting and dialogue you can't entirely control), etc.

What I loved the most was the opening sequence. The party can't get together to game the way they wanted to because real life keeps getting in the way. Man, can I relate to that one!

Hoping they follow up with the ending, since that's the movie I'd really like to see. And JourneyQuest is still pretty awesome.

[Killer Angel]

The romance is real (http://boardsandbees.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/0271/)! :smallbiggrin: