Multiple Fly Speeds

[Auramis]

This is a bit of an odd inquiry, but it's something that's sparked my curiosity.

Hypothetically, if you were to level Dragon Disciple and acquire the wings associated with the class (run speed, average) when you previously had a fly speed from a supernatural effect, such as a Swift Wing's wings or an Enlightened Spirit's wings, what would you rule? Would the new natural wings from DD have the same speed and maneuverability, or would they adopt the previous speed and maneuverability you had (assuming the previous speed and maneuverability were better)?

[Fax Celestis]

I'd go with neither, myself. You can fly faster with average maneuverability or slower with better maneuverability, your choice.

[Auramis]

I'd go with neither, myself. You can fly faster with average maneuverability or slower with better maneuverability, your choice.

Not sure I understand the flying faster at average or slower with better. The Dragon Disciple is 30 with average, where as Swift Wing is 30 with good (60 with good at level 10), and the Enlightened Spirit is 60 with good as well. Dragon Disciple wings are inferior to both.

[Fax Celestis]

So why would it matter? You have multiple options for the same movement, but one is superior than the other in all ways, so why would you use anything else?

[Immabozo]

Not sure I understand the flying faster at average or slower with better. The Dragon Disciple is 30 with average, where as Swift Wing is 30 with good (60 with good at level 10), and the Enlightened Spirit is 60 with good as well. Dragon Disciple wings are inferior to both.

What Fax Celestis means, is that they do not multiply or combine together in any way. Its like if you had a choice between a wheel chair, crutches and a walker. Just cause you have three options, doesnt make the wheel chair roll any faster. You just choose your method of locomotion out of the ones available to you and use that.

In your example, leveling DD to get the wings would indeed be a sub-optimal choice, unless you had a role play reason. Cause you can already fly - better too - so getting another method of flight is useless.

its like acquiring a biplane when you have a supersonic jet. If you do it, its not cause it'll get you there any faster.

[Auramis]

What Fax Celestis means, is that they do not multiply or combine together in any way. Its like if you had a choice between a wheel chair, crutches and a walker. Just cause you have three options, doesnt make the wheel chair roll any faster. You just choose your method of locomotion out of the ones available to you and use that.

In your example, leveling DD to get the wings would indeed be a sub-optimal choice, unless you had a role play reason. Cause you can already fly - better too - so getting another method of flight is useless.

its like acquiring a biplane when you have a supersonic jet. If you do it, its not cause it'll get you there any faster.

So, for all intents and purposes, the wings from DD would just be gimpy limbs and a wasted ability from a class? It sounds disappointing. That's the main reason I was suggesting allowing the speed from the Supernatural Wings to override the speed and maneuverability from the DD ones.

If that doesn't work, would you allow one to forego the wings from Dragon Disciple in the same way a Dragon Shaman can forego his if he already has superior ones?

[Immabozo]

So, for all intents and purposes, the wings from DD would just be gimpy limbs and a wasted ability from a class? It sounds disappointing. That's the main reason I was suggesting allowing the speed from the Supernatural Wings to override the speed and maneuverability from the DD ones.

If that doesn't work, would you allow one to forego the wings from Dragon Disciple in the same way a Dragon Shaman can forego his if he already has superior ones?

In short, yes. But if, as the DM, or talking to yours, can of course rule otherwise.

Just cause you have it, doesn't mean you have to use it, or can't use others.

[Deophaun]

So, for all intents and purposes, the wings from DD would just be gimpy limbs and a wasted ability from a class? It sounds disappointing.
Well, at least you can fly through an AMF with them.

[Auramis]

Well, at least you can fly through an AMF with them.

You'd be able to do that with the Swift Wing wings. They're supernatural, not magical.

[Crake]

You'd be able to do that with the Swift Wing wings. They're supernatural, not magical.

Supernatural effects are likewise negated in an antimagic field, only Ex stuff persists

Edit: And supernatural effects are magical, just in a different way to spells.

[Deophaun]

You'd be able to do that with the Swift Wing wings. They're supernatural, not magical.
Just confirming what Crake said. And I don't know how you'd even get this, considering the very first paragraph of antimagic field states:

An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

[Auramis]

That'd be because I had an airhead moment and forgot the supernatural part. I generally play martial characters, so I don't have spells as well memorized. My mistake. <_<

I suppose that would put the Dragon Disciple wings a bit higher in regards to facing opponents with that spell active, despite their lesser benefits to the supernatural ones.