(3.X) Help with a velociraptor PC?

[gurgleflep]

I'm, with permission from the DM, wanting to play as a velociraptor barbarian - not an anthro, not a saurian, not a variant lizardfolk... a velociraptor. I found player stats for one in the third party book The Complete Guide to Velociraptors by Goodman Games :smallbiggrin:
Anyway, what I'm needing help with is mostly racial/party stuff, the only problems I can think of:

What reason would a velociraptor have for joining the party?
Why would a party want a raptor as a party member?
How would people react to a velociraptor walking through a city/village/town?
Communication would be something of an issue, it only knows one language: Raptor.
How would prices change (armor, weapons, goods, etc.) for something with such a body type?
No opposable thumbs! -2 penalty for grasping weapons and -6 if it's something not designed for their race.


The rest of the party is undecided as to what they'll be, but I'd imagine they'll go their normal routes with a rogue, cleric, and either a sorcerer or psion. My character will be the only racial oddity and we're starting off as level fives - I'll have 4 RHD and 1 class level.

[Radar]

1. Reasons can vary: maybe you're curious, maybe you don't want to be hunted down on sight, maybe as an awakened velociraptor you find other velociraptors insufferably dumb, maybe the party offers you lots of delicious food?
2. Who wouldn't want to be friends with a dinosaur? :smalltongue:
3. Fake being an Animal Companion or something like that.
4. Depending on your Int score, you might know additional languages. Maybe not speak, but it's a start. Aside from that, the party could use Comprehand Languages, to create some means of communication.
5. There were some rules for that, but I have no clue.
6. You have claws and a bite - you don't need any weapons. Build on that and you'll be fine. There are some interesting items and druid spells to amplify your attacks. You might also consider a dip in Totemist for very interesting buffs - it goes well with a Barbarian anyway.

[Pesimismrocks]

It wouldn't. There is no logical reason why the velociraptor wouldn't attack or flee if wild. However if raised from a pet a velociraptor could b trained as a guard dog. Many parties would see it as a useful tool rather then a party member.
The reaction thing depends on campaign setting. I would imagine quite nervous although in some settings like dark sun monsters as pets are common. Communication woul be a problem. Hope for a druid or convince a party member to be a forest gnome. They can communicate with animals on a basic level.

There are rules for nonhumanoid armour. Armour costs twice as much. weapons and other equipment is the same although size other then medium changes both cost and weight. I would recommend using your natural weapons.

Are you awakened? These assume no

[LTwerewolf]

Just to point out, velociraptors weren't actually as tall as they were depicted in the jurassic park movies. they were much closer to about 2 ft. tall and about 6 ft. from tail to nose. if you take off the tail, they're really rather small.

If you want a bigger raptor type just go with like a fleshraker.

[hamishspence]

Even its larger cousin Deinonychus, which was at one point being proposed as a Velociraptor species, isn't as big as the movie animals.

Hence it being errataed from Large to Medium.

Velociraptor mongolionis would probably fit well into Small size, based on hip height, and weight.

It's also feathered. And winged. Giving it a glide ability, like that of the hadozee from Stormwrack, could work.

[gurgleflep]

This particular raptor is based off of Jurassic Park. I'll reply longer when I get home, I'm currently replying from a phone and it's new to me.

[Hytheter]

Why barbarian? That just seems too... obvious. If you're already embracing the unusal, why not play a Velociraptor Sorcerer? That just sounds too awesome not to do.

[Runestar]

Why barbarian? That just seems too... obvious. If you're already embracing the unusal, why not play a Velociraptor Sorcerer? That just sounds too awesome not to do.

ECL alone is enough to discourage the usage of caster classes. :smallfrown:

And I don't suppose you are going to go around shouting "Terrorize!!!" :smallbiggrin:

That said, what's its backstory? If it has an intelligence score due to awaken animal, it could join the party out of kinship or friendship. Or it could be an ex comrade reincarnated?

Reactions don't have to be an issue. If dinosaurs are still alive in your world, I assume they won't be treated any different from a pet like a dog or wolf, provided the villagers believe the party can restrain them appropriately.

For convenience's sake, try negotiating with your DM to allow your PC to speak common. Manipulating gear would be an issue. Class-wise, I think martial adept classes (warblade or swordsage) would do quite well, especially since you will be screwed later on when you don't get more or better natural attacks.

[Hytheter]

So I had a quick look at the Complete Guide to Velociraptors, apparently they get a small amount of bonus intellegence. If you designate your Int score as 11, it'll go up to 12, allowing you a bonus language which you could spend on common.

[INoKnowNames]

Why barbarian? That just seems too... obvious. If you're already embracing the unusal, why not play a Velociraptor Sorcerer? That just sounds too awesome not to do.


ECL alone is enough to discourage the usage of caster classes. :smallfrown:

I dunno, a chance to play as a Cleric would be awesome for this situation. Philosoraptor.

[Prince Raven]

This particular raptor is based off of Jurassic Park. I'll reply longer when I get home, I'm currently replying from a phone and it's new to me.

Well then it's a Deinonchus antirrhopus. The reason they're called velociraptors in Jurassic Park is because at the time the first book was written Deinonychus was included in the Velociraptor genus and they didn't bother correcting it throughout the following books and movie adaptations.

[gurgleflep]

I have little understanding for the magic systems and was going to stay nice and simple for the time being... May go into something psionic though, I understand that system much more :P
Dinosaurs aren't common in the world/setting, mostly pets specially bred for the richer folks (kings, queens, dukes, etc.) and rarely seen anywhere but jungles and castles.
As for the background for the raptor, I was thinking escaped pet or exiled from his clan. Better ideas would be greatly appreciated >_>

[Thurbane]

Wasn't there a campaign journal for a Velociraptor Swordsage on the boards here from a while back?

[hamishspence]

Well then it's a Deinonchus antirrhopus. The reason they're called velociraptors in Jurassic Park is because at the time the first book was written Deinonychus was included in the Velociraptor genus and they didn't bother correcting it throughout the following books and movie adaptations.

Yes and no. Even at the time, the movie-makers were conscious that their beastie was much bigger than any Deinonychus yet discovered. While the palaeontologist advisors agreed that it was entirely possible that a bigger species might exist, they still felt it a bit problematic.

Part way through filming, Utahraptor was discovered- and that relieved everybody. For a while, there was the possibility that it would have Spielberg's name as part of its species name (so, Utahraptor spielbergi)- but that was dropped in favour of Utahraptor ostrommaysorum.

Bob Bakker's Raptor Red novel goes into more detail on this, in the appendix.

[gurgleflep]

Wasn't there a campaign journal for a Velociraptor Swordsage on the boards here from a while back?

If there is one, I'd be more than happy to see it :)
Does anybody know where it can be found if it has been done

[Gettles]

How would people react to a velociraptor walking through a city/village/town?


The normal way
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ey-Mkj1Q2jA/URVpWckrlQI/AAAAAAAAAsE/AJGrcGxJSMw/s1600/drdino.jpg

[Keneth]

You can't possibly be playing a raptor without making him a risen martyr and starting your own religion. :smallconfused:

[gurgleflep]

The normal way
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ey-Mkj1Q2jA/URVpWckrlQI/AAAAAAAAAsE/AJGrcGxJSMw/s1600/drdino.jpg

HA!


You can't possibly be playing a raptor without making him a risen martyr and starting your own religion. :smallconfused:

A what now? o_O

[Keneth]

A what now? o_O

A raptor Jesus, clearly. :smallbiggrin:

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/106843967/RaptorJesus.jpg

He went extinct for our sins.

[gurgleflep]

A raptor Jesus, clearly. :smallbiggrin:

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/106843967/RaptorJesus.jpg

He went extinct for our sins.

A-ha! Heh heh heh, okay. That's funny :smalltongue:

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'm going to go contrary to most people here and suggest that you go Dinotopia.

Make him a Warblade (to benefit from a high Intelligence) and make him a warrior-scholar. Use mostly Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind, with a scattering of Iron Heart and White Raven.

[gurgleflep]

I'm going to go contrary to most people here and suggest that you go Dinotopia.

Make him a Warblade (to benefit from a high Intelligence) and make him a warrior-scholar. Use mostly Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind, with a scattering of Iron Heart and White Raven.

Sounds like a good idea, what book is the Warblade in?
Edit: Oh, and what do you mean by "Dinotopia"?

[Handsome Goblin]

Sounds like a good idea, what book is the Warblade in?

Tome of battle :smallwink:.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Sounds like a good idea, what book is the Warblade in?
Edit: Oh, and what do you mean by "Dinotopia"?

I mean, Dinotopia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinotopia). It's a fictional series done by James Gurney from 1992-on.

[Prince Raven]

Yes and no. Even at the time, the movie-makers were conscious that their beastie was much bigger than any Deinonychus yet discovered. While the palaeontologist advisors agreed that it was entirely possible that a bigger species might exist, they still felt it a bit problematic.

Part way through filming, Utahraptor was discovered- and that relieved everybody. For a while, there was the possibility that it would have Spielberg's name as part of its species name (so, Utahraptor spielbergi)- but that was dropped in favour of Utahraptor ostrommaysorum.

Bob Bakker's Raptor Red novel goes into more detail on this, in the appendix.

I think you may be a little confused here, Deinonychus is roughly the same size as the raptors in the film, Utahraptor is massive.
http://static3.fjcdn.com/comments/nah+utahraptor+way+bigger+than+a+velociraptor+_b18 6e3b34e7fc4d9aa5d42286f6c771f.png

Also, definitely go warrior-scholar raptor-jesus.

[gurgleflep]

Tome of battle :smallwink:.

Thank you :smallsmile:


I mean, Dinotopia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinotopia). It's a fictional series done by James Gurney from 1992-on.

How had I not heard of that? :smallconfused:


I think you may be a little confused here, Deinonychus is roughly the same size as the raptors in the film, Utahraptor is massive.
*size comparison*

Also, definitely go warrior-scholar raptor-jesus.

I think the ones in the movie were somewhere betwen the Deinonychus and the Utahraptor, it looked them right about in the eye. but it's head was also more upright - tail wasn't quite as long either if I remember correctly (I've not seen the movies in a while).

[hamishspence]

I think you may be a little confused here, Deinonychus is roughly the same size as the raptors in the film, Utahraptor is massive.

I was quoting almost word for word from Raptor Red appendix.

Deinonychus was much lower at the hip than the movie raptors.

Utahraptor was large enough, that the movie raptors were between it and Deinonychus in size.

Thus- they know something the size of the movie raptors existed- since we have fossils a size bigger and a size smaller.

[Thurbane]

If there is one, I'd be more than happy to see it :)
Does anybody know where it can be found if it has been done
I'm sure I'm not imagining it, but I'm not having any luck Googling it. Maybe it wasn't Sworsage but another martial class, and maybe it was a Fleshraker or other dino...I know something exists somewhere!

[hamishspence]

I think the ones in the movie were somewhere betwen the Deinonychus and the Utahraptor, it looked them right about in the eye. but it's head was also more upright - tail wasn't quite as long either if I remember correctly (I've not seen the movies in a while).

Longer legs probably played a big part in this.

Sizes I've seen given:


Deinonychus, at 11’2” in length, stands 2’10” at the hips. JP raptors, at 13’6” in length, stands 4’3” at the hips.

[Prince Raven]

I was quoting almost word for word from Raptor Red appendix.

Deinonychus was much lower at the hip than the movie raptors.

Utahraptor was large enough, that the movie raptors were between it and Deinonychus in size.

Thus- they know something the size of the movie raptors existed- since we have fossils a size bigger and a size smaller.

Ah ok, I see what you mean now.

[hamishspence]

I'd say that, regardless of the extra bit of height, JP raptors should still just about fit into Medium rather than Large- if the OP's using those as the basis.

[Prince Raven]

I agree, if an 8 foot tall orc is medium sized, those raptors definitely are.

[hamishspence]

If you're using height tables- the ones for orcs are in Races of Faerun- and in that, the tallest mountain orcs (ones that use the default MM stats) are 7'4".

The slightly larger orogs (also RoF) max out at 7'6".

And the varags (hobgoblin relative, in MM IV) max out at 7'11".

I'm not sure if there's any Medium sized creatures without Powerful Build that exceed that, on the random height tables.

Some Large creatures have minimum heights well below those, it must be said- the shortest half-ogres are only 6'7".

[Cerlis]

you should definitely be an awakened raptor(or whatever). The two best routes for your origin would be part of an intelligent species of raptor (I.E. Dinotopia or Warcraft) or a unique individual.

Either way you should probably be awakened.

You could be gratuitous and be zombie raptor jesus that farts rainbows or w/e
But i think it would be alot more fun (from a narrative perspective) to actually get into the head of your character. Some of this would be aided by deciding between barbarian and warblade.

Either way, your character is a spark, more intelligent than an animal, but far to beastly to be human. No doubt you look down on the form of humanoids for having weak skin, jaws, limbs and slow bodies, but if anything that makes them all the more impressive since they use technology and their wits and numbers to dominate the landscape. Like wild animals do in the real world you might latch onto a "pack" of them, since a pack of unintelligent raptors or other predators are definitely beneath you.
If you go barbarian it could be as simple as that. Roleplay wise you might focus on the fact that you are a unique individual and your "cultural" differences with others. I'd use Dinobot (Beast Wars) as inspiration. He is naturally predatory, values strength above (almost) all else. He follows orders like a pack member but like an animal (and pack member) that if there is an opportunity to take over the group he would (and does) take it and is usually only put in his place after...being put in his place.

I do like the notion of the blade-scholar. No spellcasting or anything but i think as a warblade you would have much greater goals. You take the same thing you have with a barbarian but you add the fact that someone who used the wit and battle tactics of humanoids with the power of your natural form would be very powerful. A bit of a glory hound seeking out stronger and stronger opponents. Your greatest glory might be the day that you take out a tyrannosaurus (part way into your game career, because animals in dnd are only scary for their strength and size) by yourself. Despite your thirst for strength (to improve yourself) you might not persue easy fixes both because they are beyond your martial mentality (such as complex technology) or leg ups ( like weapons)
Naturally though, you see the strength and value of these other forms of strength, and like any aspiring pack master know to use your pack's strength the right way.
An example would be that you might not seek to understand how your pack's magic works, but you get a clear picture of what it DOES and how it can be used to solve problems.

[Fouredged Sword]

No, you see, the T-Rex is obviously a crusader. Very dangerous.

[Darrin]

No, you see, the T-Rex is obviously a crusader. Very dangerous.

I'd say some combo of Rogue/Swordsage, probably PrCed into Spymaster:

The Return of Rex Ready. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/04/04)

[gurgleflep]

I'd say that, regardless of the extra bit of height, JP raptors should still just about fit into Medium rather than Large- if the OP's using those as the basis.

I am using the JP styled ones that I found statted out, I think it's their length that makes them a size "large" though (nose to tail).


you should definitely be an awakened raptor(or whatever). The two best routes for your origin would be part of an intelligent species of raptor (I.E. Dinotopia or Warcraft) or a unique individual.

Either way you should probably be awakened.

You could be gratuitous and be zombie raptor jesus that farts rainbows or w/e
But i think it would be alot more fun (from a narrative perspective) to actually get into the head of your character. Some of this would be aided by deciding between barbarian and warblade.

Either way, your character is a spark, more intelligent than an animal, but far to beastly to be human. No doubt you look down on the form of humanoids for having weak skin, jaws, limbs and slow bodies, but if anything that makes them all the more impressive since they use technology and their wits and numbers to dominate the landscape. Like wild animals do in the real world you might latch onto a "pack" of them, since a pack of unintelligent raptors or other predators are definitely beneath you.
If you go barbarian it could be as simple as that. Roleplay wise you might focus on the fact that you are a unique individual and your "cultural" differences with others. I'd use Dinobot (Beast Wars) as inspiration. He is naturally predatory, values strength above (almost) all else. He follows orders like a pack member but like an animal (and pack member) that if there is an opportunity to take over the group he would (and does) take it and is usually only put in his place after...being put in his place.

I do like the notion of the blade-scholar. No spellcasting or anything but i think as a warblade you would have much greater goals. You take the same thing you have with a barbarian but you add the fact that someone who used the wit and battle tactics of humanoids with the power of your natural form would be very powerful. A bit of a glory hound seeking out stronger and stronger opponents. Your greatest glory might be the day that you take out a tyrannosaurus (part way into your game career, because animals in dnd are only scary for their strength and size) by yourself. Despite your thirst for strength (to improve yourself) you might not persue easy fixes both because they are beyond your martial mentality (such as complex technology) or leg ups ( like weapons)
Naturally though, you see the strength and value of these other forms of strength, and like any aspiring pack master know to use your pack's strength the right way.
An example would be that you might not seek to understand how your pack's magic works, but you get a clear picture of what it DOES and how it can be used to solve problems.

I don't really know how to reply to this other than with a simple statement: I like this :smallamused:



Also (this isn't directed towards anybody in particular), the raptors in question aren't "awakened", they're just "smart" - they watched and they learned, they can use weapons with penalties (lack of thumbs), speak raptor (if the DM allows it, the character will know common as well), and they're very full of themselves (typically).

[dysprosium]

The Guide to Velociraptors is an expansion for the Broncosaurus Rex game by Goodman Games where the Civil War ended in a stalemate and the Union and Confederates found a planet where dinosaurs never died out.

The raptors on that planet are based on the theory that if dinosaurs never died out on Earth, then the smartest of the dinosaurs would have developed human lilke intelligence.

Anywho, I made a velociraptor character for a friend of mine--warblade all the way. Tiger Claw maneuvers for the win. He liked that character a lot.

[hamishspence]

I am using the JP styled ones that I found statted out, I think it's their length that makes them a size "large" though (nose to tail).


Size categories are usually determined by length nose to base of tail, rather than nose to tip of tail. But that might only apply to quadrupeds.

Still, MM (errataed) has, like the SRD, 600 lb Medium deinonychuses:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus

[gurgleflep]

The Guide to Velociraptors is an expansion for the Broncosaurus Rex game by Goodman Games where the Civil War ended in a stalemate and the Union and Confederates found a planet where dinosaurs never died out.

The raptors on that planet are based on the theory that if dinosaurs never died out on Earth, then the smartest of the dinosaurs would have developed human lilke intelligence.

Anywho, I made a velociraptor character for a friend of mine--warblade all the way. Tiger Claw maneuvers for the win. He liked that character a lot.

Thank you for the tip :smallsmile:
How'd you two get around the language barrier?


Size categories are usually determined by length nose to base of tail, rather than nose to tip of tail. But that might only apply to quadrupeds.

Still, MM (errataed) has, like the SRD, 600 lb Medium deinonychuses:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus

Thanks for the link. I find it funny how the one from the velociraptor guide weighs about 120 (bird-like so they're lightweight *shrugs*) while the MM has 600 :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

Could be a holdover from when they were Large- 600 lb is very light for a Large creature.

[gurgleflep]

Could be a holdover from when they were Large- 600 lb is very light for a Large creature.

That makes sense, I guess.

[dysprosium]

Thank you for the tip :smallsmile:
How'd you two get around the language barrier?

No problem!

It was a limited campaign with a whole host of non-standard characters from different planes of existence, alternate time lines, etc. One of the houserules was that all of them were able to speak Common.

But for your purposes I think there is an amulet of natural speech (iirc) that makes the wearer capable of speech.

[gurgleflep]

No problem!

It was a limited campaign with a whole host of non-standard characters from different planes of existence, alternate time lines, etc. One of the houserules was that all of them were able to speak Common.

But for your purposes I think there is an amulet of natural speech (iirc) that makes the wearer capable of speech.

That would come in quite handy, I'll begin scouring the internet and various books for the amulet - and again, thanks for the info! :smalltongue:

[Vedhin]

Wasn't there a campaign journal for a Velociraptor Swordsage on the boards here from a while back?

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4954014#post4954014) was the link. It'll take someone with more internet savvy than me to get through it though.

[Prince Raven]

Size categories are usually determined by length nose to base of tail, rather than nose to tip of tail. But that might only apply to quadrupeds.

Still, MM (errataed) has, like the SRD, 600 lb Medium deinonychuses:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus

I have the best idea ever. Palandin Halfing Outrider riding a celestial Deinonychus into battle. Gotta convince the DM to let me do this next time I start a D&D game.

[gurgleflep]

I have the best idea ever. Palandin Halfing Outrider riding a celestial Deinonychus into battle. Gotta convince the DM to let me do this next time I start a D&D game.

Hopefully he lets you, that sounds kinda fun :smalltongue:
Bonus points if the celestial deinonychus is another player!

[gurgleflep]

Wow, this thread's gone quiet :smallfrown: Are there any more suggestions/tips/ideas? Any at all?

[dysprosium]

But for your purposes I think there is an amulet of natural speech (iirc) that makes the wearer capable of speech.

It's actually called a pearl of natural speech, but it does what I said it does.

[gurgleflep]

It's actually called a pearl of natural speech, but it does what I said it does.

Just read through it (took me a while to find it though), and it's pretty cool. The only thing I didn't like is that it's just one language.

[Fouredged Sword]

Get one for each language and switch them out as needed. Get a permanent comprehend languages cast so you can understand people talking TO you as well.

[gurgleflep]

Get one for each language and switch them out as needed. Get a permanent comprehend languages cast so you can understand people talking TO you as well.

Not a bad idea, thanks for the suggestion :smallsmile: