The Phantom Vs. The Batman

[Frozen_Feet]

The Ghost who Walks (http://www.schapter.org/wiki/Main_Page), the allegedly immortal Nemesis of pirates everywhere, vs. an eccentric millionaire playboy in a bat suit. Both have, for some asinine reason, decided the other is an enemy to justice and must pay for his crimes.

There are two scenarios. In the first, the Phantom comes to visit Batsy in Gotham. In the second, Batman takes initiative and goes to the deep jungles of Bengali. Both are trying to capture the other and bring him to custody,

Some notes:


Phantom is not averse to using firearms. Indeed, pistols are his signature weapon.
While he's been shown to kill very rarely, Phantom is not explicitly averse to using lethal force in self-defence. His forefathers have fought in wars and revolutions and killed people. His motto is to be "tough to the tough".
Both are restricted to modern, or modernly plausible, technology. This means no voodoo magic for the Phantom, and no scifi-gadgets for Batman. If unsure what tools are available for Batman, refer to Nolan movies.

[Tanuki Tales]

Is this comic Bruce? And I'm not well versed on the Phantom; does he have any good peak human feats? How good is his martial arts competency?

[BWR]

Thing is, Batman has generally met far nastier things than the Phantom ever has. Depending on which stories you read or watch, Batman has thrown Supes across a room (and gone down hard after, sure, but stil, he threw Superman across a room), pissed off Darkseid and lived to tell about it, regluarly takes blows from beings that would turn an average human to pulp. Plenty of people try to use guns at Batman. They just make him angry. I just don't see the Phantom coming out on top here.

What has the Phantom met that can measure up to a classic Batman villain like e.g. Clayface?
(my Phantom reading is technically greater than my Batman reading, but I've watched and read about the Bat a great deal more than I have about the Ghost Who Walks)

[Tiki Snakes]

Both are restricted to modern, or modernly plausible, technology. This means no voodoo magic for the Phantom, and no scifi-gadgets for Batman. If unsure what tools are available for Batman, refer to Nolan movies.


It would probably be best just to straight up limit this to either movie batman depictions or even specifically the nolan-verse Batman, I think.

[Frozen_Feet]

Is this comic Bruce? And I'm not well versed on the Phantom; does he have any good peak human feats? How good is his martial arts competency?

Comic or movie Bruce, minus super science. Your pick.

When he was still an university student, the current Phantom broke world records in track&field and was considered "the best sportsman ever". He also duked it out with then-current heavy-weight champion in boxing, and won easily. He routinely knocks grown men unconscious with a single punch. When other have commented on his general build or weight, they've said he feel's like "he's made of cast iron!" His body contains antibodies to all known diseases, and hence is immune to them. He can fight with swords, spears, bows, guns and his fists. With his pistols, he is accurate enough to knock guns and knives out of hands of his enemies.

He also inexlicably manages to sneak past airport security to get into any country he wants, despite being clad in a trenchcoat and sunglasses and not having a real civilian identity / passport.

[Anteros]

Phantom stomps movie Batman. Comic Batman stomps Phantom. Neither fight is close.

[Frozen_Feet]

Phantom stomps movie Batman.

Please elaborate.

[TheThan]

Also are we using movie Phantom? There’s two, if so, which one, as they have access to completely different tech levels.

[Tanuki Tales]

Please elaborate.

I'm going to assume he'll point out that no movie version of Batman ever showed any actual competency at doing anything.

[tyckspoon]

I'm going to assume he'll point out that no movie version of Batman ever showed any actual competency at doing anything.

I dunno, move-Batman could probably out-stuntdrive The Phantom.

[Frozen_Feet]

Also are we using movie Phantom? There’s two, if so, which one, as they have access to completely different tech levels.

What movie Phantom? There was no movie. :smalltongue: Nanana can't hear you~

[Hopeless]

Billy Zane versus Christian Bale or George Clooney or Val Kilmer or Michael Keaton or Adam West or Ben Affleck... okay ignore that last one for now!:smallamused:

Cartoon Phantom has Flash Gordon and a number of other allies for help and they'd only make sure he doesn't kill Batman... well except for the Kevin Conroy Batman, they'd have a brief fight and then get talking... seriously why wouldn't they given their backgrounds, Phantom probably trained Batman!:smallwink:

[Avilan the Grey]

I think they are very even. Bats has more tricks.
Phantom has guns, and is a crack shot.

Physically they are about equal. Phantom knows much less martial arts, but is a world class fighter (in the old days they would say "bare knuckle boxer" but to be fair these days it's basically he is a MMA fighter on international levels.

He is strong enough to punch out men twice his size with a single hit on the jaw, He also at least at one occasion, in canon. punched a grown male lion unconscious the same way.

[Raimun]

I would say The Phantom.

When all is said and done, The Phantom is just more physically imposing and also willing to use lethal force. Batman has fought all manner of super foes but I think we all know by now that only a fellow Badass Normal can defeat Batman.

The Phantom is so strong, tough and quick that all the crooks he fights think he's an immortal revenant with super powers. The dude is just that good. On those rare cases when some crook has a chance fleeting "upperhand", they're even then too scared to unmask him. That's even if the crooks at hand have not even heard the legend of The Phantom, the ghost who walks.

The crooks of Gotham city are certainly intimidated by Batman but they all know Batman is just a man and that he doesn't kill. With The Phantom, all the bets are off. Everyone is scared of him. Even the airport security, when Phantom travels incognito.

I mean, just read old jungle sayings (http://deepwoods.orgfree.com/oldsayings.htm).

[Frozen_Feet]

It also helps that in case some crook actually does manage to kill you, you have a kid or two ready and trained to take your place, as well as multiple people in other countries who occasionally impersonate you. :smallwink:

The interesting question is... would Batman buy into this myth? Sure, it is a fabrication. But on the other hand, Batman has other enemies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%27s_al_Ghul) who have de facto lived for centuries, come back from the dead etc.. How would that affect his preparations?

[Raimun]

It also helps that in case some crook actually does manage to kill you, you have a kid or two ready and trained to take your place, as well as multiple people in other countries who occasionally impersonate you. :smallwink:

The interesting question is... would Batman buy into this myth? Sure, it is a fabrication. But on the other hand, Batman has other enemies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%27s_al_Ghul) who have de facto lived for centuries, come back from the dead etc.. How would that affect his preparations?

I just happened to read a Phantom-story last week after long time. The Phantom was fighting crooks in America and not even one of them knew the legend of The Phantom. They were still scared of him.

[Avilan the Grey]

All in all, though, this is definitely a story I would love to read. These heroe's backgrounds and canons do not clash with each other, and there is a logical explanation to them never had run into each other before.

[Tanuki Tales]

Isn't taking out two lions barehanded the best strength feat from one of the Phantoms?

Batman has this (just one example):

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98946/2048009-1954247-batvsninmanbats_super.jpg

[Avilan the Grey]

In fact, I would love a three-some :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

Green Hornet, Phantom, Bats.

[Tanuki Tales]

In fact, I would love a three-some :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

Green Hornet, Phantom, Bats.

No love for Lamont Cranston?

[Ebon_Drake]

Isn't taking out two lions barehanded the best strength feat from one of the Phantoms?

Batman has this (just one example):

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98946/2048009-1954247-batvsninmanbats_super.jpg

If we're treating the Defenders of the Earth cartoon as canon (which we should because it ruled), the Phantom could conjure up the strength of ten tigers. I don't think tigers are really known for their strength per se, but having the strength of ten of them would still be pretty impressive.

[Tanuki Tales]

If we're treating the Defenders of the Earth cartoon as canon (which we should because it ruled), the Phantom could conjure up the strength of ten tigers. I don't think tigers are really known for their strength per se, but having the strength of ten of them would still be pretty impressive.

First post says no Voodoo magic for Phantom.

[KnightDisciple]

Uh, this would go to Batman.

At best, the Phantom may have a slight physical power/speed edge on Batman. But skill-wise? Bruce knows basically every major martial art in the world, and has fought Bane and won (the Bat was Broken after Bruce was so tired he could barely freaking stand; Bane had to use every criminal in Arkham and a load of super-steroids just to feel he had an even chance).

And two pistols? Pshaw. Those'll be out of the Phantom's hands in no time, at which point it's just a matter of how long until Batman hits him with a dozen nerve strikes and ties him upside down to a streetlight.

[Frozen_Feet]

@Tanuki_tales:Precisely. At their core, both heroes are (supposed to be) natural. Without that restriction, we'd eventually have to deal with supermen and golems, which I'm not interested in.

[Tanuki Tales]

Precisely. At their core, both heroes are (supposed to be) natural. Without that restriction, we'd eventually have to deal with supermen and golems, which I'm not interested in.

I'll bet dollars to donuts Batman probably has better feats than Phantom even without bringing in any "Batgod" shenanigans.

[MLai]

Batman has this (just one example):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98946/2048009-1954247-batvsninmanbats_super.jpg
Without any context, this is just so BS.
That's like what, 30 armed humanoids who can fly (think about that mobility for a second) and who presumably have greater-than-human strength. At the very least, armed with bestial fangs and claws.

And he beats them up while in a suit? I'll buy it if he was fully kited out in bat-armor and bat-gear, and a fully planned ambush. But out in the open, presumably being ambushed, and in a suit? :smallmad:

Edit: My point is, if we're talking about a character with superpowers, then you can set his level at anywhere you want. He can beat up 10 mutants, or 10,000 mutants, it depends on his backstory.
But Bruce Wayne is a normal human (at peak training). He can do martial arts but at the end of the day he prevails because he also uses his brain and his rich boy gear. You can't just scale him up willy-nilly and say because he's a "superhero" he can do this feat.
Please tell me in that scene he had prep and booby-trapped the town square or something. Don't tell me he just beat up 30 flying mutants with no gear and not a scratch afterwards.

[Tanuki Tales]

Without any context, this is just so BS.
That's like what, 30 armed humanoids who can fly (think about that mobility for a second) and who presumably have greater-than-human strength. At the very least, armed with bestial fangs and claws.

And he beats them up while in a suit? I'll buy it if he was fully kited out in bat-armor and bat-gear, and a fully planned ambush. But out in the open, presumably being ambushed, and in a suit? :smallmad:


Issue 656 is where this all starts. I'm trying to track down the exact issue that image is from. I was never contending he could beat 30 man-bats in just a casual suit, just that he has taken down things more impressive than two lions.

In 656 he did take down several Manbats (who are League of Assassins operatives) who were attacking the expo he was at with just a grappling device, some flash bangs, a fire alarm and his fists. He was ultimately overpowered so that Talia could reveal the fact his son exists.

Edit:

Peak Human is basically a superhuman power by the by. Batman has done things no human being should rationally be able to do, potentially even when under the effects of drugs or an adrenaline rush.

[TheThan]

Yeah, I really want batman to lose this. Basically at this point, I’m so tired of “Batgod” existing. It’s come down to “batman can’t lose unless the plot demands it”. Batman has just grown too much for vs threads, each one ends up with “batman wins if given any time” as the main argument. It's become so boring.

[MLai]

Yeah, I really want batman to lose this. Basically at this point, I’m so tired of “Batgod” existing. It’s come down to “batman can’t lose unless the plot demands it”. Batman has just grown too much for vs threads, each one ends up with “batman wins if given any time” as the main argument. It's become so boring.
Batman doesn't need to lose this, because he has bat-gear while Phantom doesn't have "phantom-gear," and Phantom Voodoo has been specifically prohibited (unfairly, since that is his "gear"). Knockout gas, tazer, tranquilizer... any number of purpose-built bat-gear can take down Phantom.

But if Batman just decides to fistfight Phantom, what should happen is what we saw in TDKR when old!Bat went up against the Mutant Leader. Or Bale!Bat fighting a Hardy!Bane who doesn't have a gas mask weakness.

[BWR]

Batman doesn't need to lose this, because he has bat-gear while Phantom doesn't have "phantom-gear," and Phantom Voodoo has been specifically prohibited (unfairly, since that is his "gear"). Knockout gas, tazer, tranquilizer... any number of purpose-built bat-gear can take down Phantom.

But if Batman just decides to fistfight Phantom, what should happen is what we saw in TDKR when old!Bat went up against the Mutant Leader. Or Bale!Bat fighting a Hardy!Bane who doesn't have a gas mask weakness.

Why? Why should Batman automatically be weaker, slower, less endurant and less competant than the Phantom? Especially when there have been examples of where Batman clearly does stuff way beyond anything the Phantom has done.
As I said earlier I'm haven't read everything the Phantom or the Bat have done so there may be arguments in favor of the Phantom that I am unaware of, but if you are going to be fair about it you have to choose both parties at their peak. You can't choose the best for one and not the best for the other; otherwise, you are just playing favorites.

[Tanuki Tales]

Batman doesn't need to lose this, because he has bat-gear while Phantom doesn't have "phantom-gear," and Phantom Voodoo has been specifically prohibited (unfairly, since that is his "gear"). Knockout gas, tazer, tranquilizer... any number of purpose-built bat-gear can take down Phantom.

But if Batman just decides to fistfight Phantom, what should happen is what we saw in TDKR when old!Bat went up against the Mutant Leader. Or Bale!Bat fighting a Hardy!Bane who doesn't have a gas mask weakness.

Bale!Bat couldn't really fight to any degree worth mentioning and compared to actual martial artists (let alone DC top tiers in hand to hand like Batman) Hardy!Bane was a rank amateur.

And really? Using decrepit Bruce against a metahuman with barely any feats to judge by?

Batman doesn't need to be Batgod to school someone who is below him in practically all regards except raw strength when amped. The gap isn't that great mind, but its enough for Batman to win.

[MLai]

Why no references to bat-feats? Because if you're only going to listen to DC, then this thread is an open-and-shut case. Batman regularly tackles powered individuals faaaaaaaaar beyond what a "peak human" should be capable of, gear or no gear. There's no discussion value for any "Batman vs non-super" in that case.

[Tanuki Tales]

Why no references to bat-feats? Because if you're only going to listen to DC, then this thread is an open-and-shut case. Batman regularly tackles powered individuals faaaaaaaaar beyond what a "peak human" should be capable of, gear or no gear. There's no discussion value for any "Batman vs non-super" in that case.

Did I ever mention Batman doing stupid things like going toe to toe with heralds and winning with few losses? No.

But he can beat flat metahumans through skill, gear and intellect without too much damage taken on his terms and he can even beat stronger characters if the skill gap is large enough and he has enough things in his favor.

Until I see some better feats from Kit (I'm assuming this is the Phantom we're discussing) other than beating some regular animals and some regular, non-peak humans, I see no grounds to say he'd beat Batman.

[TheThan]

I pulled this from the wiki:


Batman has no inherent superhuman powers. To compensate for this, he relies on "his own scientific knowledge, detective skills, and athletic prowess."[28] In the stories, Batman is regarded as one of the world's greatest detectives, if not the world's greatest crime solver.[120] In Grant Morrison's first storyline in JLA, Superman describes Batman as "the most dangerous man on Earth," able to defeat a team of superpowered aliens by himself in order to rescue his imprisoned teammates. He has spent a significant portion of his life traveling the world and acquiring the skills needed to aid in his crusade against crime. His knowledge and expertise in almost every discipline known to man is nearly unparalleled by any other character in the DC Universe.[121]

Batman is an expert in interrogation techniques and would often use law enforcement methods as well as torture. Several of his methods include hanging a person over the edge of a building by the leg or chaining a person upside down and beat them. He usually just uses his frightening appearance to get answers. Batman has been repeatedly described as one of the greatest martial artists in the DC Universe; his skills in hand-to-hand combat are said to rival such notable martial artists as Lady Shiva, Bronze Tiger, and Richard Dragon.

Batman has the ability to function while tolerating massive amounts of physical pain, withstand telepathy and mind control. He is a master of disguise, often gathering information under the identity of Matches Malone, a notorious gangster. He is also skilled in spying, thus allowing him to hide in unexpected places. His ninjutsu training has made him a master at stealth where he can can appear and disappear in rather impossible situations. He is efficient with observation skills and forensic investigation.



This sums it up. The man has no real weakness, no disadvantages. He knows everything and is one of the greatest fighters in his world. Batman simply wins.

He needs to have some disadvantages, skills he hasn’t learned or mastered, maybe he’s not the greatest martial artist in the world, but by utilizing his theatrics he can get the drop on people and beat them (basically by not making it a fair fight). Maybe he’s not the best at computer use, so he contacts… someone… someone skilled at that sort of stuff… maybe some sort of Oracle.

I just want some other non-powered heroes to have something over batman. Give them something that makes them worthy of being a superhero. It feels like nobody else is allowed nice things because batman trumps them.

[Tanuki Tales]

Batman isn't DC's greatest martial artist though.

Richard Dragon flat stomps him and I'm pretty sure Lady Shiva has more wins than she doesn't. And then you get into Karate Kid...

Batman has superhuman powers though, regardless what DC wants to keep telling everyone. Same goes for Captain America and Marvel.

[BWR]

There is a difference between comic book physics and real world physics. Yes, Batman and Captain America (and other 'normal' humans in DC and Marvel) regluarly do things that are impossible in the real world. In univerese they are still not super-powered.

[TheEmerged]

I don't think I still have the books, but if I recall correctly the old DCU RPG had a Batman writeup that cost more points than Superman - and that was BEFORE the Morrison-era BatIdol that had sufficient superscience to create nanites that could transmute and alien's skin into magnesium...

[Tanuki Tales]

There is a difference between comic book physics and real world physics. Yes, Batman and Captain America (and other 'normal' humans in DC and Marvel) regluarly do things that are impossible in the real world. In univerese they are still not super-powered.

See, I don't buy that since they do have characters who are "regular humans" too and follow regular human limitations.

And no, Captain America is superhuman. He can run almost a mile a minute, he can snap steel, he can bullet time, he is immune to almost all earth borne illnesses, he can't get drunk, and he doesn't really age.

Batman you can argue about, but he's pretty close to Cap in several regards.

[Raimun]

Look, you can argue that Batman wins "because he's Batman".

Where I come from, the argument that The Phantom wins "because he's The Phantom" is as valid and more often than not even more so.

Because he's The Phantom.

[BWR]

No one is seriously arguing that Batman would win 'because he's Batman!', however fun it is to say. We are arguing that the Phantom has not come close to any of the feats that Batman has. That is why Batman would win. If there are any absurd feats the Phantom has pulled off that we are unaware of, please show them instead of just making this a popularity contest.


See, I don't buy that since they do have characters who are "regular humans" too and follow regular human limitations.

And no, Captain America is superhuman. He can run almost a mile a minute, he can snap steel, he can bullet time, he is immune to almost all earth borne illnesses, he can't get drunk, and he doesn't really age.

I doubt the two are 'regular'. They are probably the pinnacle of human achievement. I never claimed they were regular humans. However, they are not superpowered in universe, no matter how much you want to think so. We are discussing the rules as they exist in universe, not real world. In universe Bats and Cap are not superpowered. If we discuss based on real world physics I would beat every superhero, god and whatnot in any universe because they don't really exist.

[Tanuki Tales]

I doubt the two are 'regular'. They are probably the pinnacle of human achievement. I never claimed they were regular humans. However, they are not superpowered in universe, no matter how much you want to think so. We are discussing the rules as they exist in universe, not real world. In universe Bats and Cap are not superpowered. If we discuss based on real world physics I would beat every superhero, god and whatnot in any universe because they don't really exist.

Then, for Captain America, you're just flat out ignoring he's superhuman. Marvel in even their handbook entries in a round about way state he's superhuman, even if they don't totally show it on their power grid for him. They state he can lift 800 lbs, which is the bottom rung of their definition for Superhuman strength. They give him flat "Enhanced" durability, which is superhuman and not the level for "normal". They list his speed as normal, but that's because their "Superhuman" speed lowest rung caps out at 700 mph and only covers movement speed, not reactions. In reaction times, he's past Mach 1.

You cannot tell me that all of that is within the potential bounds of the human body, all the time. When someone is in the throws of an adrenaline rush, we call the acts they perform "Superhuman". That's Steve Rogers at base levels at all times. He can then have an adrenaline rush on top of that, pushing him straight into the territory of Superhuman.


Batman is far more arguable, since his feats aren't always as crazy as Captain America's, but he's still done things completely outside human capability and are still superhuman.

You can't just go "la la la that's not what the editor's/writer's/what have you say", because they're just wrong. DC more than Marvel, since Marvel is beginning to just admit Cap has powers.

[Tiki Snakes]

Well, Cap straight up has a superhero origin, as in the whole Super Soldier Syrum. He's classed as whatever it is he's classed as, but I never got the impression there was a serious claim that he was merely peak-regular-human.

He's quite literally super-human in some ways. Specifically, he's something like theoretical peak, his capabilities taken past the point a human could actually hope to achieve despite still being within the conceptual boundaries of the definition. He doesn't have powers, but he's certainly not just a well trained regular joe.

Batman? I choose to believe that he's actually just a low-level Marvel style Mutant who has gotten displaced in the time/space continuum. Super Genius who walked off a broken back? Sounds mutant enough to me.

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, Cap straight up has a superhero origin, as in the whole Super Soldier Syrum. He's classed as whatever it is he's classed as, but I never got the impression there was a serious claim that he was merely peak-regular-human.

He's quite literally super-human in some ways. Specifically, he's something like theoretical peak, his capabilities taken past the point a human could actually hope to achieve despite still being within the conceptual boundaries of the definition. He doesn't have powers, but he's certainly not just a well trained regular joe.

Batman? I choose to believe that he's actually just a low-level Marvel style Mutant who has gotten displaced in the time/space continuum. Super Genius who walked off a broken back? Sounds mutant enough to me.

But then it begs the question:

"How do we define powers?"

[Tiki Snakes]

Loosely. :smallwink:

[Avilan the Grey]

No one is seriously arguing that Batman would win 'because he's Batman!', however fun it is to say. We are arguing that the Phantom has not come close to any of the feats that Batman has. That is why Batman would win. If there are any absurd feats the Phantom has pulled off that we are unaware of, please show them instead of just making this a popularity contest.

See, I don't agree at all. Because Batman DOES those feats BECAUSE "He Is Batman". The writers feel they can get away with extremely unrealistic stuff because of the reputation already in place.

If we stay with the descriptions of the heroes, it would be an even fight. If go by what someone wrote in a comic at one point or another Batman would always win, because he exists in a far less realistic setting, period (yes, even with the "cavemen" and "Eden Island" and other crap I don't want to think about included).

Both are pure humans with extreme physique.
Both are extremely skilled in hand to hand combat.
Both use their reputation to scare criminals.

Everything else is just fluff we can argue about for years.

[Tanuki Tales]

Everything else is just fluff we can argue about for years.

Not really. If you ignore the outliers and "Batgod!!!!" Grant Morrison stuff, he still is above Kit in practically every regard except amped strength.

Unless you want to arbitrarily reduce Batman to being as weak and incompetent as Nolanverse Batman.

[Avilan the Grey]

Not really. If you ignore the outliers and "Batgod!!!!" Grant Morrison stuff, he still is above Kit in practically every regard except amped strength.

Unless you want to arbitrarily reduce Batman to being as weak and incompetent as Nolanverse Batman.

See, I don't see that. I have read my share of Bats over the years and except for the "BatGod!!!" stuff, he really HASN'T displayed any skills that puts him above the Phantom, really. He moves fast, somehow manages not to get caught on his cape (his biggest feat!) and can throw smoke grenades and batarangs at people.

[KnightDisciple]

See, I don't see that. I have read my share of Bats over the years and except for the "BatGod!!!" stuff, he really HASN'T displayed any skills that puts him above the Phantom, really. He moves fast, somehow manages not to get caught on his cape (his biggest feat!) and can throw smoke grenades and batarangs at people.

Batman regularly fights an assortment of foes who bring far more to the table than the Phantom. And this isn't just "BatGod".

Assuming they're almost physically equal, with a slight strength edge to Phantom, Batman wins by virtue of a much wider skill base. Even if you reject him knowing 100+ forms of martial arts, it's inarguable that he likely knows 20+ forms and has merged them into one seamless system. He wears an armored suit that's at least bullet resistant, and "guy with a couple of pistols" is old hat to him.

In short, putting aside any mystical feats (since we also put aside Batman's more exotic technology), Batman has a definitive skill edge over the Phantom while they're fairly well-matched in other areas. Thus, Batman defeats Phantom.

As for the "why can't other Badass Normals have nice things" post, that's ridiculous. One guy being the theoretical "best badass normal" does not mean there's no point in telling stories with others. That's why we've got guys like Green Arrow, Iron Fist, etc. in both Marvel and DC. There are a variety of ways to go about the style of character, and that variety lends itself to multiple stories.

[TheThan]

So forum ate my last post.

Anyway, I’m been more or less just complaining about batman here. Because “they” take his capabilities and stretch them so far it starts to strain credibility.

If we remove “batgod” from the equation, then this is a much closer contest. I still think batman unfortunately has this, but that’s pretty much because he’s fought and won against a few low level meta-humans (bane on venom, killer croc, clayface etc), and a whole lot of crazy. While I don’t think The Phantom has. Granted I’m not an expert on ether. As for experience and training, it’s a fair bet they’re more or less equally qualified in training, both have dedicated their lives to fighting crime, injustice etc, so it makes sense they’ve both been training since they were young. I think batman has the edge in experience though, Gotham city is famous for its crime, so there’s always someone for him to go after. As for the phantom, I imagine there’s a lot of lulls in-between his adventures.
Although a batman/Phantom crossover would be pretty awesome.