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redfeline
2013-08-24, 04:49 PM
Okay my wife wants to run a mage-a-phobic 3.5 game. Character creation is strictly magic free, to the point were monk is considered to magical. Players are forced in the army where they are told "some one over in that village has a magic potion, burn down that village."

At a turning point in the game players will start to gain advancement on a magic and supernatural abilities chart. That is where we need help. We want a tier system with three categories: utility, offense, and defense. 6 tiers will be used.

I am asking for suggestions of cool abilities you would put at specific tiers. It is fairly easy to say magic missile as a spell like ability at tier 1 offense. I am more looking for help with supernatural and extraordinary abilities like animal companion, would it be tier 2 utility.

Please use the following form for suggestions.
con +2, tier 3 defense.

JusticeZero
2013-08-24, 05:36 PM
The main issue is that a lot of things are not so simple. I'd honestly just start letting people trade up to spellcasting classes. Take Sonic Burst - damage and a status. Is that offense because it's a blast, defense because it's a debuff?
You could start picking up magic item abilities of some sort, I suppose, in some Incarnum-esque way...

redfeline
2013-08-25, 11:04 AM
Yeah, she didn't want to gestalt into mage classes, but I made a similar pitch to her.

Incarum might actually be a good source of idea's for tier level, if I look at which soul meld chakra bond is available at what level. I am also thinking about looking at the evolutionist, savage, and swarm lord homebrew for some idea's on super natural powers.

But again this is just asking for opinions and suggestions as to what you would include as well to as where you would include it. I think as we getting going into the game it is meant to have a sorta superhero feel as nearly no one else will have a deflection bonus or acid damage on a weapon.

As for appearing in a tier category there may be overlap. Animal companion may appear in offense, where as mount may appear in utility.

Veklim
2013-08-26, 08:17 AM
I'd have to disagree with the assertion that animal companion would be offense, it depends MASSIVELY upon which animal you have, some would be offensive, sure, but others could be utility and a few may even be defensive...

A project like this needs to do 3 things IN ORDER. Firstly, identify the abilities you wish to be present within the system. Secondly, figure out which category or categories each ability belongs to. Thirdly, decide what power level they should belong in. Keeping with the animal companion thing, you could present it as utility at tier 1, defense at tier 2 and offense at tier 3, each one representing a different list of possible animal companions.

It might also be worth cutting the system down dramatically, whereby you have a choice of 3 or 4 abilities for each category, and these abilities PROGRESS through tiers of power instead of just adding new stuff for each tier. It would cut back on the volume of work to be done, and offer a far simpler approach to the issues you are currently having.

redfeline
2013-08-27, 10:57 AM
Well I am at the gather abilities section. I am looking for suggestions as for powers leveling up, I will happily listen to any suggestions there if you are willing to help work on it with me.

NichG
2013-08-27, 11:48 AM
This is kind of an opportunity to do something unique with it. If you've got a favorite 'fix the magic system' idea, now's the time to try it out I think. Or you could make a completely new magic system that doesn't have to compete with D&D's default magic system (which, as the Shadowmage and Truenamer proved, is a hard act to follow).

Here is an example off the cuff system:

Through the game, characters gain a resource that attunes them with magic and unlocks new abilities. They are forced to spend this resource as it accumulates (since becoming a mage in a mage-phobic world is probably not something most of the characters would want to do), but they only have to spend it when it accumulates to the level of the most expensive thing they can buy next.

Tier 1 abilities cost 1 point, Tier 2 abilities cost 2 points and require a Tier 1 in the same line (Offense, Defense, Utility), and so on.

Each character gets to pick (or is assigned) one 'theme' or 'seed' per the highest Tier they possess. When they buy a new ability, they must choose to associate it with one of their Themes. You could make a list of Themes and roughly what they do at each Tier and category.

The following example assumes that these are at-will abilities.

For example, the Fire theme:

Offense: Allows you to surround your hand in flames, shoot a ray of flames, or create a fiery explosion. These deal, respectively, 4d6, 3d6, and 2d6 fire damage per Tier of the ability. The save DC is 10+Stat mod+Tier.

Defense: At Tier 1 you can surround yourself with a wall of flames that deals damage to those who make touch attacks against you. At Tier 2 this extends to melee attacks with weapons made against you. At Tier 3 this grants Cold Resistance too. At Tier 4 you can position the wall elsewhere on the field, and it auto-dispels lower or equal Tier cold effects that are sent through it. At Tier 5 the field vaporizes arrows, stones, and bullets fired through. At Tier 6 you can make a shell, and cold-based abilities do not work within the shell until it is broken.

Utility: At Tier 1 you can damp down small fires or cause them to flare up. At Tier 2 you can move existing fires around with your will at 30ft/round and can sustain fires without fuel. At Tier 3 you can hear words spoken next to a fire or speak back through it if you have a portion of that fire that you have taken (using the Tier 2 ability, or just having lit a torch off of it). At Tier 4 you get images. At Tier 5 you can treat fire as a solid thing and can fly on a sheet of your own flames. At Tier 6 you can teleport through fire.


Time:

Offense: All of these powers have an AoE version that appears 1 tier later. At Tier 0* you can lower someone's initiative by 10 on a failed save, or alternately you can render a target flatfooted against an ally's attack. At Tier 1 you can nullify someone's next move action for one round. At Tier 2 this becomes 1d4 rounds. At Tier 3 you can nullify their next standard action for 1d4 rounds. At Tier 4 you can temporarily age someone to the venerable age category (reverts in 10 minutes), giving them a number of physical stat penalties. At Tier 5 you can jump someone forward in time for 1d4 rounds, effectively denying them actions during that period. At Tier 6 you can permanently lock someone into temporal stasis.

Defense: At any tier you can delay projectiles that you aren't flatfooted against slightly as an immediate action, giving yourself +2*Tier to your Touch AC against the attack. At Tier 2 as a standard action you can create a buff effect that reduces the effects of continuing damage by 50% for 1d4 rounds, but also reduces the effects of Fast Healing and the like by the same amount. At Tier 3 you can slow your own falling or the falling of others to negate falling damage and to extend the time you spend in the air. At Tier 4+ you can grant yourself or another reactive prescience, a 1d4 round buff that improves your Reflex saves by 2xTier. At Tier 5 you can spend an immediate action to delay the onset of an enemy's spell or the impact of an enemy's projectile. At Tier 6 you can spend an immediate action to time-lock yourself against a single attack or damaging effect, negating the damage.

Utility: At Tier 1 you can increase your movement speed or that of another by a factor of 2 for 1 minute per Tier. At Tier 2 you can grant yourself or another person the full effects of Haste for 2 rounds per Tier. At Tier 3 you become immune to the harmful effects of old age, or you can scry up to Tier hours into the past to see what previously happened somewhere. At Tier 4 you can make someone else younger, or you can be immune to surprise and being flatfooted. At Tier 5 you can divine upon a future decision and get an impression of your emotional state within a minute after each choice. At Tier 6 you can Quicken other supernatural powers every other round.

Xaotiq1
2013-08-27, 04:48 PM
If I may be so bold as to offer up the powers from this class http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277986 as a means to assist.

redfeline
2013-08-27, 06:00 PM
Thank you, you both wonderful suggestions and that is exactly what I am looking for.

cameronpants
2013-08-28, 03:03 PM
Why not try this:
There are three categories; Offensive, Defensive, and Utility.

Offensive usually require a standard action. Defensive usually require a Swift or Immediate action. Utility varies on what action is required.

There are six tiers of power, from 1 to 6.
Each player gains a Power Chain- a series of abilities with a similar theme. They then choose a Major category and a Minor category.

These determine when they gain said powers and the level at which they gain them. As they progress, they get more Themes, and thus more powers.

So, let's say that he gains three themes; one at 1st, one at 5th, and one at 9th. He gains his primary categories right away. He gains his secondary category two levels after. He never gains the third one.

Johnny Lastmane's selections are Fire at 1st (Primary Offensive, Secondary Defensive), Ice at 5th (Primary Defensive, Secondary Utility), and Lightning at 9th (Primary Utility, Secondary Offensive)

{table=head]Level|Powers|First Theme Tier|Second Theme Tier|Third Theme Tier
1|First Theme (Primary)|1|-|-
2|Extra Power|1|-|-
3|First Theme (Secondary)|2|-|-
4|Extra Power|2|-|-
5|Second Theme (Primary)|2|1|-
6|Extra Power|3|1|-
7|Second Theme (Secondary)|3|2|-
8|Extra Power|3|2|-
9|Third Theme (Primary)|4|2|1
10|Power|4|3|1
11|Third Theme (Secondary)|5|3|2
12|Extra Power|5|4|2
13||6|4|3
14|Extra Power|6|5|3
15||6|5|4
16|Extra Power|6|5|4
17||6|6|4
18|Extra Power|6|6|5
19||6|6|5
20|Extra Power|6|6|6
[/table]

Like that.
It provides a decent curve to power and has a large amount of diversity as he levels.

Assigning power to abilities is pretty easy. Take the level it is normally available at, divide it by two, and Subtract one.
Eldritch Blast 6d6 is available at 11th level. Divided by 2 is 5.5. Minus one is 4.5. Drop the decimal, and poof, Tier 4.

For spells at will, well, might I suggest something like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187632)? It balances pretty well. Add in a 1d4 round cool down period and you're golden. You'll also have to modify Offensive Powers differently, or ignore the part about reducing the number of targets if it has more than one, and you're set.

When you gain a Power Theme, you gain a Tier 1 power in that set. Every even level, you gain a new power up to one tier higher than you already have or the highest tier available to that Theme.


Example Powers:
Fire Theme

Offensive: Fire Blast
Tier 1:
Conical Flame: As a standard action, you fire a cone-shaped burst with a radius of 5ft + 5ft/Tier. It deals 1d4 damage + 1d4 per tier.

Orb of Fire: As a standard action, you form and throw a ball of fire at a target within 30ft + 15ft per Tier. It deals 1d6 damage + 1d6 per tier.

Flame Fist: You wreath your hands in flame as a move action. Any unarmed attack, natural attack with your arms, or melee weapon attack deals an additional 1d6 damage. This damage increases by 1 size category per tier (1d6 > 1d8 > 2d6 > 3d6 > 4d6 > 6d6). These flames last for 1 round + 1 round per tier.

Tier 2:
Conflagration Sphere: You create a rolling ball of fire as a standard action. It moves from your square to another square up to 30ft away. Any creature it shares a space with takes 2d6 fire damage and must succeed on a reflex save or catch fire. This sphere lasts for 2 rounds + 1 round per tier. On your turn, you may direct it to move up to 30ft as a move action. You may only have one such sphere manifested at one time. You are not damaged by your own conflagration sphere.

Burning Needles: You litter the ground around you with super heated blade of fire. Any creature moving through this area takes 1d4 damage per 5ft feet of movement. As a standard action, you cover a radius up to 5ft per tier centered on you. These needles last for 1 round + 1 round per tier.

Tier 3:
Inferno Cone: (Requires Conical Flame): You create a massive spray of fire, coating things around you in sticky, super-heated liquid flame. You create a cone with a radius of 15ft + 5ft per tier, and it deals 1d8 damage + 1d8 per tier. A reflex save halves the damage. On a failed save, the target also catches fire, and is coated in the liquid flame. They take the normal damage for burning and may put it out as normal, but the DC increases by your Tier and they take 2d6 per round instead of 1d6.

etc....


EDIT: Of course, it's also super easy to just slot in existing spells/powers into these slots... I just got carried away.

If you like, fire off some suggested Themes or whatnot and I can devise some good benchmarks of power for you, tier 1 to tier 6.

redfeline
2013-08-28, 05:37 PM
I personally love that set up. It is beautiful and well thought out. That said my wife hates magic systems and while I am going to pitch that set up to her, she turned down my suggestions of magic themes before I posted it here.

She said keep it simple. 3 categories they choose to level offense, defense, and utility. As for advancement we were initially going to go gestalt but it became a far less complex set up of you advance when I say so.

The set up of standard action is offense and swift is defensive is actually a really good rule of thumb that I think I will be applying with the obvious exception of something like rage, (in bear form.)

PS: if she doesn't go with that system and you want to run it please pm me because that looks fun.:smallsmile:

cameronpants
2013-08-28, 06:16 PM
I personally love that set up. It is beautiful and well thought out. That said my wife hates magic systems and while I am going to pitch that set up to her, she turned down my suggestions of magic themes before I posted it here.

She said keep it simple. 3 categories they choose to level offense, defense, and utility. As for advancement we were initially going to go gestalt but it became a far less complex set up of you advance when I say so.

The set up of standard action is offense and swift is defensive is actually a really good rule of thumb that I think I will be applying with the obvious exception of something like rage, (in bear form.)

PS: if she doesn't go with that system and you want to run it please pm me because that looks fun.:smallsmile:

Leveling them as categories has the same trap that low tier classes have: you become a one-trick, single-speed pony. The guy who chooses offense is going to feel like a useless prat compared to the guy who chooses to specialize in utility. Spreading it out so that they each have a niche and can contribute is the best plan.

Instead themes, why not sources?
Arcane (Reserve Feats, Summon Familiar, Artificer-like Craft Wands and Scrolls) Divine (Lay on Hands, Divine Health, Monk-ness (like slow fall and Abundant Step))
Primal (Wild Feats, Shapeshift, Animal Companion)
Anima (soulmelds, binding, truenaming)
Psionic (Psionic feats, Mind Blade feats from Dreamscarred Press, Mantles)
Might (supernatural maneuvers, basically anything from ToB)


I can sympathize with the dislike of spells. But they do provide good benchmarks of power overall, or so I find.

Another idea: granting access to feats while ignoring prerequisites. Taking the idea of having a magical evolution point pool from above... ooh. Neat. Idea.

You have a pool of points per day/per encounter/per whatever to spend while activating feats.
Each character chooses a [Descriptor] of feats. [Wild], [Psionic], [Incarnum], [Divine], and [Reserve] are all examples. The character ignores all prerequisites of said feats. To use them, the player spends points from the pool in one of various ways.
[Wild] feats treat spent points like uses of Wild Shape.
[Divine] feats treat spent points like Turn Undead or Rebuke Undead.
[Incarnum] feats treat points like Essentia and can be loaded like normal.
[Reserve] feats need X points to be used, where X is no higher than half their character level. Points spent in this way return at the rate of 1 per round. The level of spell you are treated as having readied/available is equal to the number of points spent.

And so on. You get magic-like abilities without resorting to spells, get a minor boost to power in all three categories (based on your choices), and no messy reprinting of abilities.

To make it better, open the floor to Dreamscarred Press' s SRD, and assign descriptors to Truenaming feats, Binding feats, Shadowcaster feats, and any other subsystem you like.

redfeline
2013-08-29, 08:24 PM
Personally I really like the system you had above compared to evolution points.

Which is odd. I am a big fan of customization and would obviously prefer not to be a one trick pony. I think this idea of hers partially comes from a popular game I ran. I had them roll a d4 to see which of four categories they landed in spell like abilities, grafts, body transfer or a mix of the 3. The resulting characters where fun because each person had 3 or 4 unique traits or 1 big unique item like being a were dragon. It was a kinda **** balance game but every one enjoyed it.

This time around the development of magic powers forces the players a choice. Stay and hide there powers or run and hide themselves. The world lacks magic for the most part so hopefully even a few tricks will be over powered enough to make them feel special or so we hope.

Veklim
2013-08-29, 11:03 PM
Out of curiosity...what base classes ARE you allowing then...? Monk has many supernatural bits but nothing outright magical (although some like abundant step are pretty much magic), there's a spell-less Ranger variant which gives you a feat instead of spell level, otherwise it's Barbarian, Fighter and Rogue...and thatbs it. Everything else has too much magic to ever pass as mundane. There's always the Complete Splat classes to pick from as well I guess, but no magic limits you a lot...

My point is, you are gonna NEED a highly customisable system if you want much of any group diversity at all. A truly simple approach is to go by domains (including the arcane domains) and grant limited uses per day of them, probably at limited level (say 1st - 5th over 20 levels).

I really quite like the theme approach in many regards, but perhaps you could grant a single theme only per character, and give all the players access to offensive, defensive and utility abilities tied to that single theme (in an order chosen by the player) with a favoured enemy style progression whereupon you gain a tier for one of the 3 every 4 levels or so, thus cutting down on the amount of magic-like stuff each character gets, offering customising options without messing about too much with power.

Also, what's the stance on magical beasts, monsters with magic/supernatural abilities and extra-planar influences? Are there no gods, or are they just so disinterested in the world that they cannot be bothered to exert any sort of divine influence?

I ask a lot of questions sometimes...:smallbiggrin:

redfeline
2013-08-30, 10:47 AM
In terms of magical beasts spell warped creatures are quite common... in the wilds. Most of the game is supose to be urban to some extent.

As for class she has picked 7, I don't recall them all off the top of my head. I know swashbuckler is one... knight may of been one, scout is one. In any case more classes are avaible then the number of players.

I too agree with customization being key here. It is the themes which I feel I would use she wants to avoid.

Currently I am looking at stealing the supernatural, spell like abities, and likely the extrodinary ability sections from the evolutionist class. That should work fine because I am the only one in the group that knows that class exists.

As for spell like abities we'll likely further mod them with metamagic feats preloaded. Quickened shield, and maximized cure light wounds comes to mind.




I am definitly happy that this thread is starting to get attention. If you guys want to, once I have the basics worked out for my wifes game I would like to flesh out cameronpants system because I think it would be fun to have aqround in some of the games here.

redfeline
2013-08-30, 10:49 AM
On a side note I showed this to her, and she didn't understand any of this. Oh keep your fingers cross she has jury duty today, so hope she doesn't get picked.


Why not try this:
There are three categories; Offensive, Defensive, and Utility.

Offensive usually require a standard action. Defensive usually require a Swift or Immediate action. Utility varies on what action is required.

There are six tiers of power, from 1 to 6.
Each player gains a Power Chain- a series of abilities with a similar theme. They then choose a Major category and a Minor category.

These determine when they gain said powers and the level at which they gain them. As they progress, they get more Themes, and thus more powers.

So, let's say that he gains three themes; one at 1st, one at 5th, and one at 9th. He gains his primary categories right away. He gains his secondary category two levels after. He never gains the third one.

Johnny Lastmane's selections are Fire at 1st (Primary Offensive, Secondary Defensive), Ice at 5th (Primary Defensive, Secondary Utility), and Lightning at 9th (Primary Utility, Secondary Offensive)

{table=head]Level|Powers|First Theme Tier|Second Theme Tier|Third Theme Tier
1|First Theme (Primary)|1|-|-
2|Extra Power|1|-|-
3|First Theme (Secondary)|2|-|-
4|Extra Power|2|-|-
5|Second Theme (Primary)|2|1|-
6|Extra Power|3|1|-
7|Second Theme (Secondary)|3|2|-
8|Extra Power|3|2|-
9|Third Theme (Primary)|4|2|1
10|Power|4|3|1
11|Third Theme (Secondary)|5|3|2
12|Extra Power|5|4|2
13||6|4|3
14|Extra Power|6|5|3
15||6|5|4
16|Extra Power|6|5|4
17||6|6|4
18|Extra Power|6|6|5
19||6|6|5
20|Extra Power|6|6|6
[/table]

Like that.
It provides a decent curve to power and has a large amount of diversity as he levels.

Assigning power to abilities is pretty easy. Take the level it is normally available at, divide it by two, and Subtract one.
Eldritch Blast 6d6 is available at 11th level. Divided by 2 is 5.5. Minus one is 4.5. Drop the decimal, and poof, Tier 4.

For spells at will, well, might I suggest something like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187632)? It balances pretty well. Add in a 1d4 round cool down period and you're golden. You'll also have to modify Offensive Powers differently, or ignore the part about reducing the number of targets if it has more than one, and you're set.

When you gain a Power Theme, you gain a Tier 1 power in that set. Every even level, you gain a new power up to one tier higher than you already have or the highest tier available to that Theme.


Example Powers:
Fire Theme

Offensive: Fire Blast
Tier 1:
Conical Flame: As a standard action, you fire a cone-shaped burst with a radius of 5ft + 5ft/Tier. It deals 1d4 damage + 1d4 per tier.

Orb of Fire: As a standard action, you form and throw a ball of fire at a target within 30ft + 15ft per Tier. It deals 1d6 damage + 1d6 per tier.

Flame Fist: You wreath your hands in flame as a move action. Any unarmed attack, natural attack with your arms, or melee weapon attack deals an additional 1d6 damage. This damage increases by 1 size category per tier (1d6 > 1d8 > 2d6 > 3d6 > 4d6 > 6d6). These flames last for 1 round + 1 round per tier.

Tier 2:
Conflagration Sphere: You create a rolling ball of fire as a standard action. It moves from your square to another square up to 30ft away. Any creature it shares a space with takes 2d6 fire damage and must succeed on a reflex save or catch fire. This sphere lasts for 2 rounds + 1 round per tier. On your turn, you may direct it to move up to 30ft as a move action. You may only have one such sphere manifested at one time. You are not damaged by your own conflagration sphere.

Burning Needles: You litter the ground around you with super heated blade of fire. Any creature moving through this area takes 1d4 damage per 5ft feet of movement. As a standard action, you cover a radius up to 5ft per tier centered on you. These needles last for 1 round + 1 round per tier.

Tier 3:
Inferno Cone: (Requires Conical Flame): You create a massive spray of fire, coating things around you in sticky, super-heated liquid flame. You create a cone with a radius of 15ft + 5ft per tier, and it deals 1d8 damage + 1d8 per tier. A reflex save halves the damage. On a failed save, the target also catches fire, and is coated in the liquid flame. They take the normal damage for burning and may put it out as normal, but the DC increases by your Tier and they take 2d6 per round instead of 1d6.

etc....


EDIT: Of course, it's also super easy to just slot in existing spells/powers into these slots... I just got carried away.

If you like, fire off some suggested Themes or whatnot and I can devise some good benchmarks of power for you, tier 1 to tier 6.

redfeline
2013-08-30, 09:37 PM
Great news we now have a magic system so I can be specific on the help I need!

Okay so she went for a compromise we are going with a theme set. How it will now work is each player will receive one theme at the start it will have nine tiers. They will then get what we call the common spell pool later which is pick offensive, defensive or utility spells. These go to tier six and advance slower.

Any how for themes we need six themes each theme gives one ability at each tier. At the next advance you have a choice of two upgrades for the ability. So themes advance like this:
Espionage: tier 1 invisibility: upgrade choice 1 quickened invisibility. Choice 2 extended invisibility.

Okay so we need six themes total and that is where I would like the most help. If you could suggest themes we need 6 total and I would like for suggestions on what to include and any upgrades you'd suggest for abilities. Remember supernatural and extraordinary abilities are fair game and should be included.

Currently we want a minion theme that will include familiar, animal companion, mount and what ever else we can find.

We also have a person in the group who will being spying for the mages he will have an espionage theme. Tier one will include read magic and arcane mark so he can well leave messages for the mage group.

Thank you for all help and I need to finish this by monday if at all possible.

cameronpants
2013-08-31, 12:46 PM
Great news we now have a magic system so I can be specific on the help I need!

Okay so she went for a compromise we are going with a theme set. How it will now work is each player will receive one theme at the start it will have nine tiers. They will then get what we call the common spell pool later which is pick offensive, defensive or utility spells. These go to tier six and advance slower.

Any how for themes we need six themes each theme gives one ability at each tier. At the next advance you have a choice of two upgrades for the ability. So themes advance like this:
Espionage: tier 1 invisibility: upgrade choice 1 quickened invisibility. Choice 2 extended invisibility.

Okay so we need six themes total and that is where I would like the most help. If you could suggest themes we need 6 total and I would like for suggestions on what to include and any upgrades you'd suggest for abilities. Remember supernatural and extraordinary abilities are fair game and should be included.

Currently we want a minion theme that will include familiar, animal companion, mount and what ever else we can find.

We also have a person in the group who will being spying for the mages he will have an espionage theme. Tier one will include read magic and arcane mark so he can well leave messages for the mage group.

Thank you for all help and I need to finish this by monday if at all possible.

A good place to start for themes are Domains and Mantles. Not the specific powers therein, but the general ideas they portray.

Elements, energies, races, alignments. Take each character's class and slap on some adjectives on them; subterfuge, fear, dominance, charm, violence, freedom, espionage, justice.

So you want nine separate powers, slowly increasing in power, and each one gets one of two upgrades? Is that right?

Power 1
|______\
Upg. A:::Upg. B
|______/
Power 2
|______\
Upg. A:::Upg. B

etc.

And you only need six? Are you assigning them to players, or will they get to choose? Other than Subterfuge, why not the following five:
Nature, Spirit, Justice, Madness, and Protection?

After deciding on the themes the abilities should roll out quickly with all the help around here.

redfeline
2013-08-31, 02:24 PM
You are very correct sir. We are randomly assigning these themes with the exception of subterfuge which is already assigned to a person who needs it for plot.

I like your suggestions for the most part I want to avoid the over used fire, ice, and electricity as domains because well they are over used. Nature I think is a fair example of used but not over used, and if possible I would like the themes to be guessable with out saying oh your in the _____ theme.

That said I get most of your suggestions but I am having a hard time guessing what one would put into justice and still have it identifiable to an onlooker. Same with spirit but a little less so. Perhaps a change of name from justice to vengeance so we can fit share pain, acid blood, and the like on it.

Madness sounds like a great deal of fun and could have anything from a rage power to rod of wonder to something similar to word of chaos. Truly a fun concept.

Protection seems self explanitory.

cameronpants
2013-08-31, 03:02 PM
You are very correct sir. We are randomly assigning these themes with the exception of subterfuge which is already assigned to a person who needs it for plot.

I like your suggestions for the most part I want to avoid the over used fire, ice, and electricity as domains because well they are over used. Nature I think is a fair example of used but not over used, and if possible I would like the themes to be guessable with out saying oh your in the _____ theme.

That said I get most of your suggestions but I am having a hard time guessing what one would put into justice and still have it identifiable to an onlooker. Same with spirit but a little less so. Perhaps a change of name from justice to vengeance so we can fit share pain, acid blood, and the like on it.

Madness sounds like a great deal of fun and could have anything from a rage power to rod of wonder to something similar to word of chaos. Truly a fun concept.

Protection seems self explanitory.

Instead of Justice, how about Retribution?

Are you looking for per day, per encounter, or at will abilities?

I've got Espionage/Subterfuge powers to suggest, just need to type them up. Which I will do after work. And I've got ideas for all the others.

redfeline
2013-08-31, 03:45 PM
I like the sound of retribution.

She says not per encounter, but I disagree. Any how strong stuff per day and weak stuff at will.

So for the subterfuge the tier 1 item is going to be arcane mark and read magic both are at will. Had it been invisibility it would be x per day. Of coarse later on lets say at tier 6 or higher we may have a breath weapon that is usable at the normal every 1d4 rounds, but a fireball is probably about as strong and limited in daily uses at lets say tier 3 or 4.

cameronpants
2013-08-31, 04:48 PM
I like the sound of retribution.

She says not per encounter, but I disagree. Any how strong stuff per day and weak stuff at will.

So for the subterfuge the tier 1 item is going to be arcane mark and read magic both are at will. Had it been invisibility it would be x per day. Of coarse later on lets say at tier 6 or higher we may have a breath weapon that is usable at the normal every 1d4 rounds, but a fireball is probably about as strong and limited in daily uses at lets say tier 3 or 4.

Posting from phone, apologies for spelling and formatting.

Thoughts on Subterfuge theme:

Level 1 Upgrades:
Cipher: write coded messages that can only be read while holding specially-prepared items.
Glyph: create Glyph of Warding style triggers. Can recreate message, ghost sound, or minor image when seen. Lasts a few days.

Level 3: Ranged Legerdemain: as the Arcane Trickster (DMG) class feature. X/day?
Stiff Fingers: Greater Mage Hand (spell compendium) at will
Probing Fingers: can also Search and feel with ability (geants blindsight for 1 round/level with each use)

Level 3: Deep Pockets: shrink item at will. Only solid objects (no potions or alchemist's fire).
Upgrades:
Quick Draw: Quick Draw feat, can dismiss Shrink Item as free action.
Ranged Shrink: can use Shrink Item witgin close range. Attended items get a Reflex save.

Level 4: Glibness: when making diplomacy or bluff checks, can use a silent stilled greater command.
Upgrades:
Greater Command: suggestion instead of command.
Quick Chat: no penalty for rushed Cha checks

Level 5: Flee the Scene: as the warlock invocation
Upgrades:
Stand and Chat: 1/day, copy remaining behind is major image, can talk and act as you would, image and invisibility last 1 minute/level
Group Escape: can target self and up to character level allies within 30ft.



More to come if wanted.

redfeline
2013-08-31, 10:06 PM
Thank you please continue. I am sorry I haven't contributed much myself but we are working on some earlier game play. npcs and such.

We are starting level 2 commoner and in small town. See some propaganda and have a npc bash it. She'll be arrested as a witch and then the town forced into service. So combat pit... I don't get it but she wants to. Then military service, and as we make our way to the town the pcs start to get there rank 1 theme powers. End chapter 1.