Can you activate any TOB maneuvers while grappling?

[CyberThread]

I don't have my book infront of me, but can you activate any TOB maneuvers, while grappling?

[HunterOfJello]

You can't activate Stone Dragon maneuvers if you aren't touching the ground. If a giant crab picks you up with its pincer, then all your maneuvers from that discipline become worthless.


Any of the maneuvers that work as supernatural abilities should work while grappling. I'm not sure why maneuvers in general wouldn't, though there are likely some that wouldn't, like Sudden leap.

[Crake]

I think as long as you're capable of performing the actions required by the maneuver (for example, needing to attack, you'd need to have a light weapon in hand, otherwise you're unable to attack) then you should be fine.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I Iron Heart Surge the grapple rules!

[DeltaEmil]

Maneuvers that require you to move like Battle Leader's Charge, Sudden Leap, Swooping Dragon Strike, War Master's Charge or Pouncing Charge shouldn't be possible while grappled, because you can't move unless you succeed on a grapple check.

All other maneuvers ought to be possible, albeit with the restrictions that you have to make the attacks with a light weapon, and must take a -4 penalty on the attack roll, unless you have special feats and abilities, like the Wolverine Stance (making it quite useful to Power Attack with a strike maneuver while grappled, if you don't want to use your unarmed strike).

[Snowbluff]

I Iron Heart Surge the grapple rules!

Hahaha, very funny.

Grappled is actually a condition I think you can not Iron Heart Surge. No duration, you see.

[Aspargo]

Actually, if you look in page 38 of ToB, in Initiating Maneuvers and Stances, the only pre-requisite is to be able to move.

But in a grapple, you can only move if you win a grapple check, that is considered a standart action. So you can only initiate a maneuver that isn't a stardart action (like the Diamond Mind maneuver that change a save for a concentration check) after winning the oposed grapple check.

Besides any specification of the maneuver, of course. (like the touching the ground in the stone dragon discipline)

[Harlot]

That'd depend on the specific maneuver:
As I recall it, most Setting Sun maneuvres are initiated by you tripping your opponent so you'd have to break his grapple first.
With Desert Wind it seems like a few of those maneuvres - distracting ember, dragons flame, inferno blast - do not require any sort of movement to initiate...

Flipping through the book just now, it does seem like most of the maneuvres require freedom of movement.

[Starmage21]

There is a warblade stance that allows you extra freedoms while in a grapple.

Wolverine Stance, 3rd level Tiger Claw maneuver that lets you attack with any weapon while in a grapple, not just light weapons.

I'm not sure if it gets any better than that as the maneuvers go higher in level.

Stances can be switched as long as you've got a swift. No requirement to move.

[Raendyn]

Despite what I'd rule

RAW you can't initiate maneuvers while in grapple. Why? Because Rules compendium doesn't list it as an available option. Also, neither Su, nor Sp abilities are available options.

[DeltaEmil]

That'd depend on the specific maneuver:
As I recall it, most Setting Sun maneuvres are initiated by you tripping your opponent so you'd have to break his grapple first.
With Desert Wind it seems like a few of those maneuvres - distracting ember, dragons flame, inferno blast - do not require any sort of movement to initiate...

Flipping through the book just now, it does seem like most of the maneuvres require freedom of movement.You can trip an opponent during a grapple. You simply get the -4 penalty on the melee touch attack roll, and you would still be in a grapple with the opponent, while he or she is tripped.

The problem comes from the Setting Sun maneuvers also throwing the opponent away, and the opponent is still technically grappling you.

Then again, by the rules, an opponent that is in a grapple with you and then dies is still grappling you, and you need to escape the grapple first before being able to move and/or act normally again, so eh.

The Wizards of the Coast sage interprets the rules so that you can initiate a few maneuvers while grappled, but not while pinned. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19525942/Tome_of_Battle_Q38;A)But as mentioned, that's his interpretation, not 100% clearly defined rules clarification.


Q: Dear Sage
Can a martial adept (Tome of Battle) initiate a maneuver or change a stance while grappling? While pinned?
--Alan

A: The grapple rules provide a list of actions available to a grappling character, but it’s obviously not an exhaustive list. (It doesn’t, for example, mention “speaking” as an option.) It’s really intended more as a description of how grappling alters many normal actions available to characters (such as attacking and moving). Thus, the DM must apply a bit of his own common sense when adjudicating any grapple situation.

Any maneuver that involves an attack may be used while grappling, as long as it’s made with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling (PHB p156).

It’s easiest to rule that other maneuvers and stances can be initiated normally while grappling unless something intrinsic to the maneuver indicates otherwise. (For example, a maneuver that requires movement can’t normally be initiated while in a grapple because the grappling character can’t move freely.) Many maneuvers and stances are designed for use by grappling characters, and it seems counterintuitive to restrict those options. A grappling character is somewhat limited in his physical mobility, but to prevent him from initiating a maneuver or stance seems unreasonably limiting.

The Sage strongly recommends that a pinned character not be allowed to initiate a maneuver or stance. The rules clearly state that “to initiate a maneuver or stance, you must be able to move” (ToB p38), which suggests that a pinned character shouldn’t be able to accomplish this.

[Starmage21]

I find this a reasonable interpretation. There is no such restriction against spellcasters from casting spells in a grapple either, with the exception of somatic components.