Fall of the Linear Guild - IFCC's Response? [Archive]

Necris Omega

2013-08-24, 09:07 PM

So bit by bit the Linear Guild's been dismantled - possibly on a permanent basis, we can't say for now, but whatever. For now, they're as down as they've ever been.

How do you suppose our Evilest of Overlords are to react to this? A possibly substantial portion of their pawns have been removed from play. Clearly they're going to be effected. Regardless of what Sabine thinks or wants, its really her bosses who whole the infernal cards in this game.

Muenster Man

2013-08-24, 09:19 PM

I think we're deep enough into the story where the IFCC is likely going to start showing cracks in their plan and cease to appear invincible. This is probably a set-back for them, but they likely have back-up plans, which I doubt include resurrections. Everyone seems to be anticipating a schism between Sabine and her superiors, and this may directly lead to that.

David Argall

2013-08-24, 09:22 PM

I see them as horrified, with their entire plan in disarray.
We are told they must act thru agents, and now all their agents seem to be dead or rather inferior. I can even justify the next strip showing them talking about their total failure and how they were no longer in the hunt.

tomaO2

2013-08-24, 09:34 PM

No, the plan was a perfect success. What they wanted was for neither side to get the gate. Which is EXACTLY what happened.

They don't need the liner guide anymore, there is only one gate left and everyone is gathering to fight for it in one last showdown. I'm sure they were treating Nale and friends as completely disposable pawns. The only thing that was required of them was to make sure no one got the gate.

I'm sure they have a completely different plan for the final one.

angry_bear

2013-08-24, 09:53 PM

Sabine might be capable of making a new Linear Guild... I'm not expecting her to resurrect anyone, but I wouldn't be surprised if she recruited a couple of fiends or something to challenge the Order before they face off against Xykon...

JackRackham

2013-08-24, 09:54 PM

Steward

2013-08-24, 10:11 PM

Jurai

2013-08-24, 10:30 PM

They're Demons, Daemons, and Devils. Of course they have more pawns. They have at their disposal A)an infinite amount of infinitely expansive layers of the Abyss; B) nine infinitely expansive Hells; and C) uhhh... An infinitely expansive plane or planes wherein Yugoloths/Daemons hang out and play checkers. They can also just corrupt another. Belkar, perhaps, or even Mr. Scruffy.

AllenFromMars

2013-08-24, 10:48 PM

I may be wrong, but didn't Tarquin imply that he was the one that introduced Sabine and Nale in the first place?

And hasn't Sabine been working for the ICC from the beginning?

So I personally see Sabine joining Team Tarquin and acting as an agent of the ICC while there.

Bulldog Psion

2013-08-24, 11:27 PM

I have a feeling V is a lot more useful to them than Nale ever was. So, they're going to shrug and say, "well, we lost the jack. Still got the ace, though."

Knight.Anon

2013-08-25, 12:37 AM

Back when V was pre-approved the Fiends listed his plane as 00001. So the OotS world must be important. I assume world 00000 is the one in the rift. Maybe the snarl has a function similar to Sigil's to the outer planes.

They also seemed very wary of tipping off the Gods that the game was afoot.

Also I can't see the fiends not tearing themselves apart, because that's what fiends have always done. In DnD cosmology if the fiends every got their devil ducks in a row they could pave the omniverse without even trying. There's no much that can stand against an literally endless wave of the damned.

Gorbad Ironclaw

2013-08-25, 01:05 AM

What I'd like to see is how they're gonna deal with the Dark One. He's also after the gates, and since he's (probably) an evil god, he might have some influence in what the IFCC does. Although I have a feeling that the Dark One may also have been mislead about whatever's in the rifts.

David Argall

2013-08-25, 01:16 AM

No, the plan was a perfect success. What they wanted was for neither side to get the gate. Which is EXACTLY what happened.
They have had to pay major costs, such as the ire of a god for what seems very little, and that little likely to happen if they did nothing. [3 fights for the gate lead to 3 gates destroyed.] Why did they need to fuss to get the 4th destroy when it was so likely to be destroyed anyway?

They don't need the liner guide anymore, there is only one gate left and everyone is gathering to fight for it in one last showdown. I'm sure they were treating Nale and friends as completely disposable pawns. The only thing that was required of them was to make sure no one got the gate.

I'm sure they have a completely different plan for the final one.
But that plan is completely unknown to us. And what we do know does not give them any infinite number of minions to play with. In fact, it seems to suggest they are short of help.

tomaO2

2013-08-25, 02:54 AM

They have had to pay major costs, such as the ire of a god for what seems very little, and that little likely to happen if they did nothing. [3 fights for the gate lead to 3 gates destroyed.] Why did they need to fuss to get the 4th destroy when it was so likely to be destroyed anyway?

Well, the ire of the dragon god got them the ability to kill off all the defenders of the gate. So I'd say it was a good trade on their part. I think it's entirely possible that they were hoping that V would cast Familiarcide for that very result. I get the feeling they are extremely Machiavellian in their planning.

They clearly wanted the gate destroyed. If they didn't then V wouldn't have been stopped. They also don't want Xykon to have it. If the illusionists had survived, then I have a hard time believing Nale would have been able to take it down. It would have gone much differently.

In the end, the trio said they want conflict. Which is what the last gate is going to be. One massive conflict.

But that plan is completely unknown to us. And what we do know does not give them any infinite number of minions to play with. In fact, it seems to suggest they are short of help.

I agree we don't really know anything about them except that they wanted to destroy the gate, which they succeeded in doing. Their end game is unclear but I doubt they were putting a lot of worry into making sure Nale's team gets to the next gate. Heck, Nale doesn't even know where the last Gate IS and the final battle is going to be starting soon since Xykon does.

I'd imagine they had a different plan for the last gate which may even be going on as we speak.

Kish

2013-08-25, 04:56 AM

Back when V was pre-approved the Fiends listed his plane as 00001. So the OotS world must be important.
Pretty sure that plane number was "Prime Material Plane," not "OotS world."

The Pilgrim

2013-08-25, 05:24 AM

IFCC's reaction:

- Well, you can't make an omelette without cracking the eggs.
- We got the Gate destroyed. I say the plan came together rather nicely.
- We need to adquire new pawns for the next Gate, trough.
- How about that debonair warlord who just slaughered his own son?
- Nah, we already tried him. Whom do you think we originally sent Sabine to?
- Oh, right. Well, it sucks. Do we have to raise the idiot, then?
- Let's not go crazy here

dps

2013-08-25, 05:57 AM

But that plan is completely unknown to us. And what we do know does not give them any infinite number of minions to play with. In fact, it seems to suggest they are short of help.

We never really knew what their plans were before the Linear Guild got wrecked, either; but keeping in mind that they viewed the Guild as a bunch of idiots that didn't do anything except cause senseless destruction, I don't think Nale and the others were really that important to them anyway.

luc258

2013-08-25, 09:03 AM

What I would expect: the IFCC will be the last panel of the book and give an ominous forshadowing of an yet unnamed agent which they will have to use now. You know that would be the most dramatic.

martianmister

2013-08-26, 12:49 PM

IFCC's reaction:

A severe case of Lackofimaginationitis? IFCC should be disbanded for this crime, and only for this crime...

SavageWombat

2013-08-26, 04:51 PM

Maybe the IFCC knew that - whatever their true goals are - it would be wrecked if Tarquin's army fought Xykon here instead of at the final conflict. So they let the gate be destroyed to make sure Xykon moved on.

Now that the Linear Guild got Tarquin where they wanted him, the IFCC is done with them.

Either that, or their plans for Nale aren't finished yet...

Anarion

2013-08-26, 05:44 PM

A related question: Is Xykon really the BBEG in this comic or are the IFCC the true threat? 'Cause if this is enough to take them out of it, they were never really players to begin with. On the other hand, if they have other assets, they may be scarier than Xykon, because so far they seem to be much more clever. I think we'll learn a lot about the IFCC from their reaction to the last couple strips (if Rich chooses to show it).

Xykon is the BBEG with the longest setup, but this comic has a lot of moving parts. I don't think you can dismiss the IFCC because they lost some pawns, but I also don't think Xykon will be supplanted for the role of major villain.

Maybe the IFCC knew that - whatever their true goals are - it would be wrecked if Tarquin's army fought Xykon here instead of at the final conflict. So they let the gate be destroyed to make sure Xykon moved on.

Now that the Linear Guild got Tarquin where they wanted him, the IFCC is done with them.

Either that, or their plans for Nale aren't finished yet...

Their plans for Nale are done. The Giant had a character disintegrate him and explain that he could not be brought back, and the Giant is also on record as saying that True Resurrection is not a thing that exists in this comic (comment about Redcloak by Belkar notwithstanding).

I don't even think the IFCC will be all that upset. They knew that Nale and co were basically idiotic pawns from the start. Even if they're hindered by no longer having them, they still have Qarr and Sabine and the ability to recruit.

Kish

2013-08-26, 06:16 PM

The Giant had a character disintegrate him and explain that he could not be brought back, and the Giant is also on record as saying that True Resurrection is not a thing that exists in this comic (comment about Redcloak by Belkar notwithstanding).
Telephone Game. He's on record as saying True Resurrection is a horrible, game-breaking spell and he wishes it didn't exist. He's also on record as explaining why the ancient black dragon did not have her son True Resurrected in the same post. It was not "because there is no such spell in the comic's universe."

I think the fact that Rich hates True Resurrection makes it very likely no one will ever actually cast True Resurrection in the comic universe, but I also think he will continue to write around it, not plow right through it with "Doesn't exist!"

Nimrod's Son

2013-08-27, 01:57 AM

V would cast Familiarcide
Noooo! Blackwiiiiiiing!

Lord Vukodlak

2013-08-28, 10:40 AM

Here is there reaction.
"Ah a pity on to the next group of disposable pawns."

AKA_Bait

2013-08-28, 11:09 AM

...or even Mr. Scruffy.

Awesome.

:sabine: All the catnip you want!

Also, I think the LG is probably done and the IFCC doesn't care. Sabine might bring back who she can (Z or Thog, who I'm not convinced is even dead) depending on what happens in the next few panels to continue working toward whatever goals they have, but also perhaps not. The LG were just mooks to the IFCC and were doubtlessly expendable. Nale's death might be a wasted effort on some level, but he also sowed a fair amount of needless death and destruction in his time as it was.

SincroFashad

2013-08-28, 11:18 AM

Telephone Game. He's on record as saying True Resurrection is a horrible, game-breaking spell and he wishes it didn't exist. He's also on record as explaining why the ancient black dragon did not have her son True Resurrected in the same post. It was not "because there is no such spell in the comic's universe."

I think the fact that Rich hates True Resurrection makes it very likely no one will ever actually cast True Resurrection in the comic universe, but I also think he will continue to write around it, not plow right through it with "Doesn't exist!"

Agreed. The spell clearly exists in this world.

The odds of seeing it used on anyone are super duper remote, in my opinion.

-Sinc

David Argall

2013-08-28, 11:53 AM

Well, the ire of the dragon god got them the ability to kill off all the defenders of the gate.
As a technical point, no it did not. These are both events caused by other events. One did not cause another. They also did not gain the ability. They saw it happen, without an option to prevent or encourage it.

So I'd say it was a good trade on their part.
They are talking of a huge benefit, which we see no sign of happening. The destruction of this gate is no more than a secondary goal that is useless of itself. If they don't do something, such as controlling the final gate, they are big losers. And we have no sign of a method they can get this big benefit by.

I think it's entirely possible that they were hoping that V would cast Familiarcide for that very result.
Clearly not. They were shocked by the casting of the spell at all. Working out that the spell would have any effect on a particular small tribe that has an obscure link to a dragon [that just happens to be related to the target dragon] is is way beyond their skill. It is total accident.

I get the feeling they are extremely Machiavellian in their planning.
Much of what you suggest is not Machiavellian, it is Nalean.

They clearly wanted the gate destroyed. If they didn't then V wouldn't have been stopped. They also don't want Xykon to have it. If the illusionists had survived, then I have a hard time believing Nale would have been able to take it down. It would have gone much differently.
Oh definitely. One way it might have gone is that X battles illusionists and OOTS to what amounts to a draw, while LG sneaks in and grabs control of/destroys the gate.

In the end, the trio said they want conflict.
This is a misreading, a rather common one, but still a misreading. The fiends do not say they want conflict [tho being fiends, they may]. They want conflict under certain conditions. They want conflict between X and the party. They don't want it between demons and devils. Their goal is ending the Blood War. And that means ending a whole lot of conflict.

gerryq

2013-08-28, 03:10 PM

The Pilgrim

2013-08-28, 03:16 PM

Only in computer science (and not always there) do the natural numbers start with 0.

Then if the numbers were assigned by you-know-who (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0068.html), that guy might have a point.

...

EDIT: BTW, that strip reminds me that a not-that-surprisingly number of people here shares oppinion and arguments with Elan's Shoulder Devil.

dps

2013-08-28, 06:20 PM

Here is there reaction.
"Ah a pity on to the next group of disposable pawns."

Yeah, they're more upset by the fact that Sabine broke their TV screen than by Nale's death.

Bulldog Psion

2013-08-28, 08:22 PM

Yeah, they're more upset by the fact that Sabine broke their TV screen than by Nale's death.

In fact, they show no sign of caring about Nale's death at all, and are solely concerned about the TV screen.

Lord Raziere

2013-08-28, 08:27 PM

I'm thinking the IFCC are going to calmly explain their plan for Nale whenever he died now, and judging "he has potential" comment, they might either start on him some minor demonic position, or make him an offer he can't refuse and offer him power to get revenge on everyone in exchange for his soul or something, and Nale being the petty revenge-obsessed guy that he is accepts immediately.

and then even more needless conflict has been generated and the IFCC do a toast again to back up plans or something like that, being the smooth operators they are.

137beth

2013-08-28, 09:54 PM

Why did they need to fuss to get the 4th destroy when it was so likely to be destroyed anyway?
Uh, you do realize that if they hadn't done anything, all of the 4th gate's defenses, including the entire tribe of illusionists, would be completely intact, right?:smallconfused:

But that plan is completely unknown to us.
Which means that any declarations you make along the lines of "the IFCC's plan is completely foiled!" is based on literally zero evidence, since you have literally no idea what their plan was in the first place.

I think the fact that Rich hates True Resurrection makes it very likely no one will ever actually cast True Resurrection in the comic universe, but I also think he will continue to write around it, not plow right through it with "Doesn't exist!"

I'm guessing the reason will be something along the lines of:
Sabine wants to TR Nale, but doesn't have the money to pay for it herself. The only people she could ask who DO have enough are
a) the OOTS, who won't want to help her resurrect Nale,
b) Team Tarquin, who also won't want to help her, and
c) The IFCC, who will do a cost-benefit analysis and conclude that bringing a fumbling buffoon minion back is a financially poor option when there are millions of other fumbling buffoons ripe for manipulation.

Alternatively, Nale will be advanced quickly as a devil/daemon/demon (since we aren't really sure of his alignment), and end up stuck serving the IFCC anyways.

JennTora

2013-08-28, 10:18 PM

or make him an offer he can't refuse and offer him power to get revenge on everyone in exchange for his soul or something

Nale is evil. Why would they need to bargain for his soul? He's already going to hell...

The IFCC, who will do a cost-benefit analysis and conclude that bringing a fumbling buffoon minion back is a financially poor option when there are millions of other fumbling buffoons ripe for manipulation.

Would the diamond dust for the spell be a big deal for them, really? Do they even care about material things like that? I know they're all businessy, but I would think sabine or even qarr wouldn't find it too difficult to steal the diamonds...

David Argall

2013-08-28, 11:02 PM

Uh, you do realize that if they hadn't done anything, all of the 4th gate's defenses, including the entire tribe of illusionists, would be completely intact, right?
I also realize that the three previous gates had intact defenses and ended up destroyed. And there seemed to be a quite good chance the same would happen at the 4th.

Which means that any declarations you make along the lines of "the IFCC's plan is completely foiled!" is based on literally zero evidence, since you have literally no idea what their plan was in the first place.
No such claim has been made. What has been said is that the current degree of success is way insufficient to justify the costs. If they don't do something else [such as take over the last gate] they are heavy losers. And it is hard to see how any "success" at Gate 4 is going to be that useful in achieving success at gate 5, or at some other goal.