Can you imagine having Rich as your DM?

[littlebum2002]

"Hey guys, I wrote a great campaign for you. Wanna play it? Great! You're on a quest to avenge the death of your father at the hands of a powerful lich..."

[Ten years of campaigning later]

"Tarquin dramatically kills Nale right in front of Elan. How do you react?"

The OOTS story would be the best campaign ever, if anyone had the patience to finish it...

[Unisus]

Actually the quest is to fulfill the bloodoath your father swore against a powerful leach that killed his master... :smallwink: just saying

But i'm not sure the story would function as a campaign, and to follow the campaign there would be heavy railroading necessary, i guess.

[ScubaGoomba]

I think the sentiment is more "how cool would it be if a campaign played out like this."

Thing to remember, though, is that the players don't see a lot of the cool stuff we see (such as everything Redcloak and Xykon do). A lot of the best drama comes from the action the PCs would never be part of.

Also, I'd feel kind of ripped if my arch nemesis was offed by an NPC.

THAT SAID, with the wealth of ideas in that brain, it'd still be a bitchin' game.

[Muenster Man]

Writing a story with this level of detail is dramatically different from DMing, which requires a lot of improvisation. So I doubt Rich's (or most anyone's) campaign would be this awesome.

Not to say he wouldn't be a good DM (think he said he has at least a fair amount of experience doing it) I just don't think it's realistic expectation for any tabletop campaign.

[Chantelune]

[Ten years of campaigning later]

"Tarquin dramatically kills Nale right in front of Elan. How do you react?"



"Do we still get xp for beating him to the Gate ?"

:smallbiggrin:

[littlebum2002]

Roy's comment to Miko could be a player complaining about the extreme railroading the DM is doing.

It's also pretty funny to imagine illusory Shojo's comments to Belkar as the DM telling the player "if you don't quit acting stupid, I'll find a way to kill you off"

[NerdyKris]

Actually the quest is to fulfill the bloodoath your father swore against a powerful leach that killed his master... :smallwink: just saying

But i'm not sure the story would function as a campaign, and to follow the campaign there would be heavy railroading necessary, i guess.

This would be an awful campaign. Constant railroading, players being split up, removed from the group for extended periods, constant scenes not involving the players.


A game and a linear story are two different things. I'm sure he's a great DM, but this comic would not be a good game.

[Synesthesy]

Well, this story would need a lot of little changes in order to work...

[Tetsujin-28]

Gotta dissent and say that the OOTS setting wouldn't really work as an actual campaign. I don't think the setting itself is what makes OOTS great. What makes it great is the characterization, which you'd lose a lot out of in an actual campaign.

[Bulldog Psion]

Gotta dissent and say that the OOTS setting wouldn't really work as an actual campaign. I don't think the setting itself is what makes OOTS great. What makes it great is the characterization, which you'd lose a lot out of in an actual campaign.

Agreed. When you look at any work of fiction you like, it's often the same.

[Zerter]

I have no doubt Rich would make a great DM. He has experience, he thought about a lot of it and most importantly: he seems to have a critical attitude towards himself. The last leads one to improve and thus become good at stuff you apply yourself to. I know plenty of people with years of experience that never become even mediocre DMs because they do not have the right attitude.

[MtlGuy]

Imagine if that was one of the Kickstarter rewards... A D&D session via skype or whatnot with Mr. Burlew, or at a convention. Would be pretty cool experience I imagine.

[MtlGuy]

Gotta dissent and say that the OOTS setting wouldn't really work as an actual campaign. I don't think the setting itself is what makes OOTS great. What makes it great is the characterization, which you'd lose a lot out of in an actual campaign.

Adaptation is not without its challenges. It would probably be best if OOTS story was finished so the source book could to give (or reveal) the kind of details about the world necessary to work as a campaign setting. Dragonlance would serve as a good template for comparison. You have that core group of adventurers that have had their epic journey and left their mark on history. Imagine a OOTS parody of the box set where the Heroes of the Lance are sitting around the campfire. The sourcebook could unfold in a similar fashion: timeline, pantheon introduction, creation myth, world map, geography lesson, who's who, bestiary, race/class/skill/feats/loot/spells guide etc. If it was approached in the same spirit as the comic I have no doubt that it would be a world suitable for play. It would be cool to combine with the board game somehow. Like using the room cards to represent a random dungeon, or a prearranged one.

[Porthos]

There are people on this board who used to play in Rich's games. Maybe they'll pipe up and say what it was like. :smallwink:

[Baelzar]

I don't think Rich and my group would be compatible.

We play much more Rules as Written.

[denthor]

I always thought this was a campaign that Rich either played in or ran as DM. Some of these moments, are out there, players do some very interesting judgement calls.

[137beth]

Well he was a DM and game designer (he has written or co-written some WotC 3.5 books) before becoming a fiction author. Based only on his creativity and commitment to finishing stuff, I'd imagine he's a great DM. Also, I liked his proposed fixes to planar binding/planar ally that he posted here. Of course, I don't know anything about how he improvises, which is a big part of DMing.

[NerdyKris]

I always thought this was a campaign that Rich either played in or ran as DM. Some of these moments, are out there, players do some very interesting judgement calls.

It is not. He's stated this before. Some of the details of the setting, like Azure City, are from the campaign he created for that contest with Wizards of the Coast. But this is most certainly not a campaign being played. It's a story set in a world running by the D&D rules.

Why would you assume this is a campaign that he ran, by the way? Everything is leading into everything else, that would be impossible in free form role playing. It's clearly a plotted out story.

[The Pilgrim]

I'm wondering what would happen if the crew of Darths&Droids decided, after finishing with Star Wars, to try the same formula on OOTS: What if OOTS was, actually, a RPG campaign with real players behind the main characters.

Now I hate Disney for purchasing the rights to Star Wars and planning to film a sequel triology. :smalltongue:

[veti]

This would be an awful campaign. Constant railroading, players being split up, removed from the group for extended periods, constant scenes not involving the players.

A game and a linear story are two different things. I'm sure he's a great DM, but this comic would not be a good game.

Well, yes. If it were a real campaign I'm sure it would unfold very, very differently. See DM of the Rings (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612) for a pretty - insightful take on what happens when a DM gets obsessed with telling their own story.

But as for the question in the thread title - I think he'd be pretty good. He clearly knows the difference between a linear story and a game. He clearly believes in roleplaying, and recognises all the fun types of roleplayer, from Belkar and Elan to Durkon and Vaarsuvius.

The OP's description is crazy, though. Should go more like:

"Elan and Haley: Tarquin takes Nale aside for a private talk. They're about 40' away. They're arguing vigorously, Nale is shouting, he seems to be denying somethng, but you can't make out what they're saying. You want to do anything? No? Okay, suddenly Tarquin stabs Nale. Nale collapses to the ground. Anything?"


Why would you assume this is a campaign that he ran, by the way? Everything is leading into everything else, that would be impossible in free form role playing. It's clearly a plotted out story.

Up to a point, yes. But the "players" do clearly go their own way, and need the occasional kick to get them back on the rails (e.g. when Miko carts them off to Azure City, when AC itself is overrun, when Belkar's Mark of Justice goes off, when Celia gets Haley out of Azure City, when Vaarsuvius's soul splice ends in disaster). A good DM can take the players' vacillations and script the background events around it, to get the story s/he wants to tell. And for retelling purposes, I'm sure there would be some further editing and tightening up.

So the idea of it being based on a real campaign, although mistaken, is not so far-fetched as all that. Certainly not "impossible".


Now I hate Disney for purchasing the rights to Star Wars and planning to film a sequel triology. :smalltongue:

Only now you've started hating Disney? Get in line.

[FlawedParadigm]

Actually this wouldn't be a very good game, as others have said. We'd be missing a lot of the big twist scenes (Redcloak vs. the Resistance or Tsukiko - neither event of which had surviving witnesses except Redcloak, Roy in the afterlife, et cetera), most of V's power trip - and V's player would be spending a lot of time being bored as it would appear the DM would be going out of the way to keep V out of almost every combat. I'd feel sorry for Haley's player too, in the aphasia arc.

No, this had to exist as a plotted story. Even if it didn't start as one. Heh.

[The Pilgrim]

Only now you've started hating Disney? Get in
line.

I have hated Disney for a looong time. But, let's get real, they aren't gonna do a worse job on Star Wars than the one Old George already perpetrated with the prequels.

[Reddish Mage]

Writing a story with this level of detail is dramatically different from DMing, which requires a lot of improvisation. So I doubt Rich's (or most anyone's) campaign would be this awesome.

Not to say he wouldn't be a good DM (think he said he has at least a fair amount of experience doing it) I just don't think it's realistic expectation for any tabletop campaign.

I've played games I've wanted to turn into novels before, but look at the following details:

Roy defeated Xykon way back in 114 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0114.html)


Admittedly, I've played games where players were purposely put before impossible odds with the GM (not in D&D games) was expecting some sort of cleverness rather than straight combat. Still, this has never been that sort of party. OOTS has gotten by on the grace of their enemies (I count at least four TPKs avoided by the enemy ignoring the party, three times being Xykon).

Numerous Prophecies have come true. The most important was V's soul selling, which looks like an essential event. Belkar's and Durkon's prophecy would have players crying foul. Vamprism is also the sort of thing that generally takes a player out of play, however, I've seen games were such the players and DM just rolled with similar transformations.

That said, it seems to me the basic campaign is actually pretty flexible and could be run had the PCs made different decisions. The only serious railroading was Miko's capture of the players to take them to Azure City (which was lampshaded) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0251.html). Completing the dungeon of Dorukan, saving Julia, and returning to Azure city in time for the invasion were all reasonably set up events.

As for the necessity of events during and post Azure city invasion, such as the decision to go after Girard's gate, the event in Azure city's destruction and such as the meeting with Tarquin and his group, Ochul's & V's escape, and the orders decisions regarding the Rift, seem essential, they don't have to be. It could be that the campaign is flexible enough it could have survived had the hypothetical players made different decisions.

[veti]

Actually this wouldn't be a very good game, as others have said. We'd be missing a lot of the big twist scenes (Redcloak vs. the Resistance or Tsukiko - neither event of which had surviving witnesses except Redcloak, Roy in the afterlife, et cetera), most of V's power trip - and V's player would be spending a lot of time being bored as it would appear the DM would be going out of the way to keep V out of almost every combat. I'd feel sorry for Haley's player too, in the aphasia arc.

All the internal shenanigans within Team Evil would happen in the background, obviously, but it takes zero time from the player's point of view - all they'd see is "Oh lookie, there's Team Evil and Suki's not with them, I wonder where she is?" Ditto Roy in the Afterlife - that's not played, it's interpolated by the DM - Roy's actual player is having fun playing Celia at that point.

As for V's player - maybe she doesn't turn up that often, or has other commitments that keep dragging her away from the table.

Haley's aphasia - I would see as quite a fun roleplaying challenge. Difficult to keep your in-character mouth shut for so long, of course, but you can still talk about the pizza order and last night's episode of (insert currently voguish drama of choice). And when you really have something important to say, break out the charades. Fun.

[littlebum2002]

I didn't mean this thread to be "OOTS would be an awesome campaign setting", I meant it more to be "can you imagine a DM who came up with a campaign this long and complicated?"

[ti'esar]

I didn't mean this thread to be "OOTS would be an awesome campaign setting", I meant it more to be "can you imagine a DM who came up with a campaign this long and complicated?"

Well, the thing is that DMs don't come up with campaigns on their own. Ideally, they're a meshing of both the DM's and the players' ideas. That's why people are saying the analogy is flawed. (Though it's not totally misguided either - there's certainly some overlap).

[RickDaily12]

"Do we still get xp for beating him to the Gate ?"

I just finished cleaning my desk over doing an actual spit-take on this.

My god. May I please sig this? :smallbiggrin:

[Weiser_Cain]

I wouldn't like it, not enough leveling.

[littlebum2002]

Well, yes. If it were a real campaign I'm sure it would unfold very, very differently. See DM of the Rings (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612) for a pretty - insightful take on what happens when a DM gets obsessed with telling their own story.



Thanks, this is perfect. This is exactly what I was getting at when I started the thread. While I'm sure Rich would be a fantastic DM, I thought the idea of putting players in an obviously railroaded plot which takes years of adventuring to finish sounded funny.

[Psyren]

I recall Roland St. Jude mentioning that he was in some (several? many?) campaigns Rich ran, and that Rich is indeed a master of his craft.

[sengmeng]

I've always wanted to run a campaign like this, especially if I talked privately to each player about weaving their character's backstories into the narrative. It would rock.

I love to think that Rich could be this awesome on the fly, improvising as he goes and still making this story. Rule of Fun seems to matter above all at his table.

[JSSheridan]

Stories never make for good games. Can't account for the players.

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=780

[Griffincat]

RE: epic-length games

I have met members of a group which has played D&D since the very beginning, switching to the newer editions periodically as they see fit. 30-ish years of gaming, single campaign. They have played for so long that when a member of this group died, his character was incorporated as an NPC.

Decades-long games are possible, albeit rare.

[Weiser_Cain]

RE: epic-length games

I have met members of a group which has played D&D since the very beginning, switching to the newer editions periodically as they see fit. 30-ish years of gaming, single campaign. They have played for so long that when a member of this group died, his character was incorporated as an NPC.

Decades-long games are possible, albeit rare.

I don't know anybody (I'm not related to) from more 10 years ago.

[veti]

Decades-long games are possible, albeit rare.

I played in the same campaign for 20 years, before I moved too far away to make it back for sessions. The session frequency gradually dropped over the years, from "weekly" to something like "once every two-three months" as one by one we acquired lives. (Sorry, I mean "responsibilities".) We went through some 4 separate parties in that time, but it was all one campaign.

No 'changing editions', though. The homebrewed rules took over from 1e a long, long time ago. The only change that happened was "borrowing more rules when they look like they'd simplify things we were doing anyway" (e.g. the basics of 3e multiclassing, which was way simpler than what went before).