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The Rose Dragon
2013-08-25, 01:15 PM
I have noticed that when people ask for system suggestions, certain generic systems crop up almost invariably. FATE, GURPS, Unisystem, even Mutants & Masterminds crop up often because they can handle concepts for which there are no (well-known) games written, or in some cases, better than games written for those concepts. And some games invariably get suggested by the same people over and over again.

For example, I usually suggest Mutants & Masterminds for anything that isn't slice-of-life (and with the alternate conflict methods in Mecha & Manga, sometimes even then) and has some variety of powers, especially when someone asks for a mecha game, even though M&M isn't strictly written as one. The Dark Fiddler, on the other hand, nearly always brings up FATE in any form of cinematic setting, regardless of superficial trappings.

So the questions is, what is your generic system of choice when you can't find anything better? Why do you prefer it? What are its strengths and weaknesses?

LibraryOgre
2013-08-25, 01:23 PM
These days, probably Savage Worlds. I'm familiar with it, it's easy to make a variety of characters, and easy to run.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-08-25, 02:28 PM
M&M for anything high-power.
My homebrew system, STaRS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281582), for anything low-powered.
FATE for anything character-driven.

Grinner
2013-08-25, 02:30 PM
M&M for anything high-power.
My homebrew system, STaRS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281582), for anything low-powered.
FATE for anything character-driven.


You've used STaRS?

Felhammer
2013-08-25, 02:42 PM
Save Worlds really does most things one needs for a generic system.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-08-25, 02:59 PM
You've used STaRS?
Mostly for one-shots, but yeah. It's perfect for when I want to throw together something in a hurry. (It should be; that's what I wrote it to do)

kidnicky
2013-08-25, 03:44 PM
I've never played it, but M&M is the one I see brought up again and again.

Zombimode
2013-08-25, 03:53 PM
I second Savage Worlds.
Sure it lacks depth, but if you plan to run only short campaigns (a couple of months, tops) and then change setting and characters, thats perfectly fine, and the system simply works.

Black Jester
2013-08-25, 04:13 PM
By sheer quality, there is basically a Gurps and a large share of worse games. It is one of the most elegant, streamlined and intuitive systems out there.
You can exchange any sets of rules for Gurps, and in at least two thirds of the game will be significantly improved by it.

However, I personally prefer Eden's Unisystem. It has more flaws than Gurps (but than again, there aren't any flawless games) and there is a bit of clunkiness here and there, but at least it is pretty straight forward (not like for instance Savage Worlds, where nominally improving one of your character's skills can actually reduce its effectiveness under certain circumstances) and accessible - at least in theory. What the unisystem doesn't have - and what comes pretty close to a crippling flaw for a supposedly universal system - is a generic, purist form of the rules *without* an attached setting. You can only get the rules as a part of a more or less complete game and then have to extract them by stripping contents.
It is also not nearly as flexible or smart as Gurps (but that competition is utterly unfair to any RPG system anyway), as optimized for creating individual traits as FATE, or plays as fast as Savage Worlds. I admit that. Nonetheless, I find it more endearing despite all of this. Why? Because while it isn't as great in any of these aspects, the sum of its parts work very well without bogging it down with unnecesary details or hamper its intuitiveness by being overtly abstract. The Unisystem (or actually Unisystems, there are two versions of it, a 'classic' one for a more nitty-gritty playstyle and a 'cinematic' version for more over the top and simplified gameplay. The main difference is the inclusion of action points (of sorts) and how detailed the skill list is) hits the right middle ground more often than not for me, but I admit that is completely subjective. Gurps, i can worship; Unisystem I can love.

Oh and a honorary mention for Heroes should be included in any discussion about generic systems. You can do *a lot* with that system, it is a building kit for characters and creatures that is only ever equaled by Gurps, and even then Heroes is still more detailed. There is just something about systems where you build mundane equipment and everyday items with character points that rubs me the wrong way.

Glimbur
2013-08-25, 04:58 PM
RISUS (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm) is a good 'baby's first system'. The rules are very simple, and it encourages creativity and finding unusual applications for your abilities. I wouldn't run a campaign with it, but for a one shot it suffices.

Plus, it's free.

Rhynn
2013-08-25, 05:08 PM
So the questions is, what is your generic system of choice when you can't find anything better? Why do you prefer it? What are its strengths and weaknesses?

Unisystem. It's simple and flexible, and there's a ton of material to raid. It can also be deep and complex-but-not-complicated (cf. Witchcraft). It works for modern fantasy/horror, D&D-style fantasy, Wild West, kung-fu, etc.

I have a semi-generic default, too, which is actually a very specialized system in the right uses: The Riddle of Steel is awesome for any game that needs a strong focus on excellent and interesting (yet deadly) melee combat. I think it works wonderfully for any real-world setting up into the 18th century or so (ancient Greece/Rome, vikings, knights, feudal Japan, Caribbean pirates, musketeers, warfare...), and for sword & sorcery adventures in the style of Conan and Fafhrd & the Mouser. I suppose Burning Wheel has similar strength and flexibility, but I prefer TROS.

I always go for specific systems over generic, though; I don't find new systems hard to learn (or too hard to teach during play), and I think good specialized systems with rules to support their central concepts are easily superior and worth the trouble. So Aces & Eights for Wild West, Adventurer Conqueror King for D&D-style fantasy, Trail of Cthulhu for horror (especially Mythos), Lord of the Rings or The One Ring for Middle Earth, Twilight 2013 for post-apocalyptic survival (sans zombies), and so on. These games have rules that create big differences in how the game plays.

Knaight
2013-08-25, 05:40 PM
I generally favor Fudge. It's the system that FATE was based upon, and was made by a GURPS writer, and this shows. It's basically between the two in a lot of ways. As GURPS is a bit heavy for me, and I'm not actually all that fond of Aspects - particularly anything that isn't tied to the character - Fudge is a really nice middle ground. Plus, at this point I know the system so well that I can tweak it, homebrew in it, etc. and have things reliably work.

In the event that I feel like getting a bit crunchier, ORE works well.

kidnicky
2013-08-25, 08:19 PM
RISUS (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm) is a good 'baby's first system'. The rules are very simple, and it encourages creativity and finding unusual applications for your abilities. I wouldn't run a campaign with it, but for a one shot it suffices.

Plus, it's free.

I just played a little solo adventure they had on their wiki. Pretty fun for a one off. I was a reporter who ended up karate kicking a mob informant to get a scoop. I can't imagine getting a group gathered and playing this for more than maybe an hour, though.

Tengu_temp
2013-08-25, 09:12 PM
If the characters are supposed to have extraordinary abilities or access to power armor/giant robots/etc, Mutants and Masterminds. Otherwise, Fate, but most of my games belong to the first category.

The Dark Fiddler
2013-08-25, 09:34 PM
The Dark Fiddler, on the other hand, nearly always brings up FATE in any form of cinematic setting, regardless of superficial trappings.

That I do, that I do. It's kind of my favorite recent discovery, so it's frequently on my mind. It's also free, which is really helpful for people who may not be able to afford every new system suggested to them.

I do tend to bring up Mutants and Masterminds as well, though, when the powers are a bit more important and potent.

Hiro Protagonest
2013-08-25, 10:02 PM
I generally favor Fudge. It's the system that FATE was based upon, and was made by a GURPS writer, and this shows. It's basically between the two in a lot of ways. As GURPS is a bit heavy for me, and I'm not actually all that fond of Aspects - particularly anything that isn't tied to the character - Fudge is a really nice middle ground. Plus, at this point I know the system so well that I can tweak it, homebrew in it, etc. and have things reliably work.

Well, I've already got FATE. I do think it is a bit too light (playing Wushu would be psychological torture for me), so where can I find Fudge?

SimonMoon6
2013-08-25, 10:19 PM
So the questions is, what is your generic system of choice when you can't find anything better? Why do you prefer it? What are its strengths and weaknesses?

Mayfair's DC Heroes RPG (later reprinted without the DC Universe stuff as Blood of Heroes).

Strengths: It can handle any power level from ordinary humans up to people who can move planets with their bare hands... and beyond. It does so easily, without much in the way of math. (So, no rolling 250d6 just because you can punch through a mountain.) Plus, it is one of the easiest systems to "translate" characters from any medium into game stats. For example, you don't have to fiddle with pointless combat specialties (so you don't have to decide if this guy is good at tripping, disarming, etc, when most characters you read about tend to just be good at fighting which includes all of that).

And yet, it's got just enough detail so that you don't feel like you're playing some completely free form game (like the tri-stat systems, where it's pretty much, "Oh you have a lot of that ability? Then, you can probably do anything with it.") There are rules and specific limits to what you can do.

Plus, combat feels "right". Especially when using comic book protagonists.

Plus, it *easily* and *quickly* handles things that are a pain in other games, like mimicking powers, stealing powers, neutralizing powers, changing into animals, changing into animate objects, etc. There's no Champions-style calculating how much the powers you're copying would be worth or anything boring like that.

Plus, a lot of stuff in M&M seems to have been borrowed from DCHRPG. DCHRPG is like M&M without the clunkiness of a d20 system.

Weaknesses: It doesn't have a huge amount of graininess at the "I am a completely ordinary boring person," so if you want to just play a person with absolutely nothing going for him, this would not be the best system (though GURPS might work well). And using Hero Points (the experience points that you can spend in combat) can at times make it feel like each combat is more a matter of wearing out the opponent's Hero Points than actually using your special awesomeness to beat them. And the character creation system can't be trusted in the hands of a player because it is too easy to make crazy overpowered characters.

erikun
2013-08-25, 11:48 PM
Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with too many generic systems. (By "familiar", I mean having actually played.) That said, I do have a few systems that I prefer recommending over others.

Fudge, Fate, and Fate Core receive a lot of recommendations from me. The primary reason is because I've actually played them (well, not Fate Core yet) and so am familiar with what the system can and cannot do. Both Fudge and Fate have rules for "abilities" and "skills", and so if you have a concept in mind that would fit into most other common system, then it should be easy to create in it Fudge/Fate - Fate Core's system is a bit stranger, and seems to take some getting used to. And most importantly, the systems are freely available online: Fudge (http://www.fudgerpg.com/goodies/fudge-files/core/), and both Fate and Fate Core (http://www.faterpg.com/resources/).

HeroQuest (link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroQuest_(role-playing_game)), because everyone confuses it with the board game) is one system I'm becoming familiar with, and really like the look of. From character creation to assigning skills to resolving challenges, everything about it looks simple, quick, and easy to both explain and understand. In addition, it looks like they put a lot of thought into the system and everything. Most systems with the "make your own skills" situation tend to have problems with balance and open skills - but between stretches, the credibility test, lingering benefits, and advice with the pass/fail cycle, I think that HeroQuest has sufficient rules to avoid these problems.

Other than that, people asking for generic "mundane" systems will get a recommendation for new World of Darkness, while people asking for super-heroic systems will get a recommendation for Mutants & Masterminds. nWoD is very handy because characters are vulnerable but not incapable, and the system has a lot of good material to generate ideas for campaigns (especially horror). M&M is just very versatile and has enough powers that you can certainly find something similar to whatever fantastic or psudo-magical effect you want.


Well, I've already got FATE. I do think it is a bit too light (playing Wushu would be psychological torture for me), so where can I find Fudge?
Here you go. (http://www.fudgerpg.com/goodies/fudge-files/core/) The first PDF is kind of a "quick start" rules, while the second is the actual full system.

kyoryu
2013-08-26, 05:35 PM
I love Fate. It takes a bit of getting used to, as a lot of things are just 'different' than most RPGs.

My other go-to system would be GURPS, if I want more crunch/tactics/etc. Savage Worlds *may* be nudging it out due to lower complexity.

danatblair
2013-08-26, 06:48 PM
D6 anyone? Anyone? ... I feel like a relic now.

I still like the system, and hope that there could be some more stuff under opend6. But, with each person doing their own individual homebrewed variant for their releases it is kinda difficult to find a common rallying point.


I have heard good things about mini 6 and cine 6. THE Core opend6 books are free. And many of the new books for the system are free or cheap online as pdfs.

Most people I know probably default to gurps instead.
I know a few who even use the megaversal system.

so ... yeah, i feel like a relic and a bit our of touch.

LibraryOgre
2013-08-26, 07:27 PM
I like d6 well enough, and it was my go-to for a while. However, I find SW more accessible.

InQbait
2013-08-26, 07:53 PM
When I want to play a generic system, I go with STaRS (thank you, Grod the Giant. Brilliant system)
Or, I invent my own system. Which is something I've been doing for years now.
As for Mutants and Masterminds, I have never played it but I would be interested in giving it a go based on how many people have recommended it.

Raum
2013-08-26, 07:57 PM
So the questions is, what is your generic system of choice when you can't find anything better? Why do you prefer it? What are its strengths and weaknesses?It depends on what I want from the system at the moment. Savage Worlds is great for action, Fate is the choice for shared narratives, Wushu is good for quick pick up and one shot games, and Unisystem is the choice for settings where more options are desirable.

Erik Vale
2013-08-26, 08:22 PM
Heroes [Currently 6th Ed], Generic, can model anything from mundanes [if you force people to put points in skills] to superheroes, I own it and have access to a lot of useful materials since my dad's family used to play it [And they developed much better character sheets than the bog standard].