NES: best and worst

[danzibr]

I was thinking about NES games the other day, and hey, let's share our favorites (and least favorites)! In no particular order.

Best: River City Ransom
I love this game. Good simple plot, play as a high schooler and whale on other high schoolers. Rescue the girl. So much replay value. And it got a remake and is getting a sequel!

Best: Super Mario Bros. 3
The boot! Tanuki! Hammer bros. suit! Well okay, this game has a lot going for it. Diverse, enjoyable worlds. If you want you can beat it in like 20 minutes, or you can spend hours and hours on it. Great.

Best: Maniac Mansion
Multiple characters, mystery game. Play as high schoolers, can kill 'em off. Different characters have different options. Plenty of humor. Again, can beat it in like 15 minutes or spend lots of time doing everything.

Best: Final Fantasy
I actually still play this game. On my phone (so the updated version), but this game is fun for a challenge (4 white mages, solo red mage) or to curb stomp (2 fighters, 2 red mages). Actually, for the new version I'm fond of fighter, black belt, thief, white mage... but it's not an NES game.

Best: Battletoads
Talk about hard. I actually never beat this game without lots of cheating. Still, the levels are diverse and interesting. Cool boss fights and other challenges, like races.

Best: Bucky O'Hare
Blinky! This is a seriously fun game. Lots of good characters, scroll through them with the push of a button. Great.

Best: Fantasy Zone
Upbeat music, good bosses, can breeze through it if you want, cool upgrades. Nice and colorful.

Best: Friday the 13th
Man, this game used to give me nightmares. Challenging, play as plenty of people, go whale on Jason. It's kind of a big PITA to actually beat, though.

Best: King's Quest V
Great series. Man I love this game. Probably more nostalgia value, but I like these sandbox games.

Best: Kirby's Adventure.
Need I say anything? I actually... never beat this for some reason. Hmm. I should do that.

Worst: Defenders of Dynatron City
I only say this because... it's such a disappointment! Cool superhero game (c'mon, you can even play as a freakin' radioactive dog or whatever it is), big city to roam around, but the hitboxes suck so bad! SO BAD! When you should *clearly* hit something you miss, and when it looks like you should miss you hit. This would easily be a "best" if you can tell when you're supposed to hit crap. Oh, but the enemy has no problem nailing you.

Worst: Karate Champ
Sorry, Karate Champ. Like DoDC, you can't friggin' tell when you'll hit the enemy. At least it's one of the few NES games with voices.

There are a great deal of other games which I wanted to comment on (Tetris, StarTropics, Rygar, M.U.L.E., Megamans, Ultima, Willow, Zelda of course, Shadowgate, Deja Vu), but the above list is plenty big.

Also, can anyone think of a game where you go into a mansion and control multiple people and have to solve puzzles and stuff? I saw it just briefly once but have no idea what the title would be.

[TaRix]

Best: Maniac Mansion
Multiple characters, mystery game. Play as high schoolers, can kill 'em off. Different characters have different options. Plenty of humor. Again, can beat it in like 15 minutes or spend lots of time doing everything.

You mean this one?

[erikun]

There's definitely a few, although it's been a very long time since I played most NES games. I'd honestly like to go back and play them again before putting in a recommendation.

One thing I have noticed is that puzzle games tend to still play very well, despite the age. I'm recently playing through Adventure of Lolo right now, and it is definitely worth it if you like something that will make you think or work with it a bit to figure out the answer. (And if you don't immediately go to GameFAQs for the answers, as it'll be short and boring that way.)

Other than that, I have been playing through the Mega Man games (courtesy of the Mega Man Anniversary Collection) and the games are surprisingly great, especially with the ability to watch and see the pattern, rather than just being thrown in or relying on blind jumps. However, there are a handful of parts which just throw that all out the window, working with pure randomness and throwing you through it with no chance to prepare. I'm thinking that large pit on Ice Man's stage (MM1) and most of Quick Man's stage (MM2). Haven't played past MM2 yet, although I seem to remember that the series gets better as it progresses.

[Anteros]

I was always fond of the original TMNT. I played through recently, got all the way to the last boss...and the game bugged out on me. :smallsigh:

[Zevox]

I honestly don't remember much of what I played on my NES. I was quite young at the time.

My favorites at this point though are the Mega Man series. Pretty much the whole thing, honestly; no one game has ever stood out to me as significantly better than the others. Though the first few had the most memorable bosses and weapons (Metal Blade!), but that could just be because I played them more.

[Winthur]

Nobody mentioned Contra

I guess this means it's not even necessary to mention it

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Dragon Warrior. One of the very first games released on the NES. The plot was simple: Save the princess, kill the evil dude, live happily ever after. It was one of the earliest RPG's, and later offerings only got better.

Legend of Zelda. Dude, how can you mention 'NES Best' without mentioning this game? I've still got the gold cartridge, even though my NES has finally, after a quarter of a century of loyal service, been honorably retired.

Double Dragon. The pioneer of beat-em-up games.

Final Fantasy. Because you can't mention 'best NES' without mentioning it.

As far as worst:

Friday the 13th. Kludgy mechanics that don't always do what you think they should do, exceedingly annoying methodologies... just listen to AVGN's rant. There's a reason it was one of the first games he lambasted.

Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde. Just... don't. Please, for the love of your sanity... don't.

TMNT. I remember playing TMNT in the arcade as a beat-em-up kind of game. This game was a horrible disappointment. There were so many arbitrarily annoying places that it was just insane. Fortunately, the second was much more in line with the arcade game.

[Hunter Noventa]

Best/Worst: Faxanadu. It's a challenging side-scrolling rpg/adventure platformer. It's pretty unforigving, and looks really bizarre. it has awesome points and low points, and I seriously suggest anyone who remembers the NES days try it out, despite it's shortcomings.

[Triaxx]

@Shneeky: Agreed, after TMNT, TMNT II: The Arcade Game, was definitely a BEST.

BEST: Dungeon Magic. A surprisingly deep and complex game that gave me serious headaches. I ended up playing with the color turned off to keep that from happening.

Worst: X-Men. A pitiful top down game that was incredibly hard. I never actually got beyond the first area of the first level.

BEST: Gauntlet. Wizard needs food badly. But it's some of the best co-op gaming on the system. Two players could get a lot further than just one. Archer plus Valkyrie for the win. :D

Worst: Werewolf the Last Warrior. I could never get the back flip I was supposed to use to pass an obstacle in the first level to work.

BEST: Dragon Warrior. An awesome game, that still holds up pretty well. CURSE YOU METAL SLIME!

Worst: Kung Fu: It wouldn't be so bad if the enemies would accept that I actually hit them once in a while.

[danzibr]

Legend of Zelda. Dude, how can you mention 'NES Best' without mentioning this game? I've still got the gold cartridge, even though my NES has finally, after a quarter of a century of loyal service, been honorably retired.

Double Dragon. The pioneer of beat-em-up games.

Final Fantasy. Because you can't mention 'best NES' without mentioning it.

As far as worst:

Friday the 13th. Kludgy mechanics that don't always do what you think they should do, exceedingly annoying methodologies... just listen to AVGN's rant. There's a reason it was one of the first games he lambasted.
I did mention Zelda at the end. I even said, "Zelda of course," I just didn't have a good comment for it.

As for the other... maybe my joy is rooted in nostalgia.

Best/Worst: Faxanadu. It's a challenging side-scrolling rpg/adventure platformer. It's pretty unforigving, and looks really bizarre. it has awesome points and low points, and I seriously suggest anyone who remembers the NES days try it out, despite it's shortcomings.
I thought about mentioning Faxanadu in this same category. I got really far (like when you're collecting the legendary gear) but never beat it. So hard.

[DigoDragon]

My personal BEST list (no particular order):

Super Mario Bros. 3
The Legend of Zelda
Mega Man 2
Solar Jetman
TMNT 2: The Arcade Game

[Hunter Noventa]

I thought about mentioning Faxanadu in this same category. I got really far (like when you're collecting the legendary gear) but never beat it. So hard.

I'm just glad someone else remembers this game. I'd love to see the AVGN do an episode about it.

[danzibr]

Best: Maniac Mansion
Multiple characters, mystery game. Play as high schoolers, can kill 'em off. Different characters have different options. Plenty of humor. Again, can beat it in like 15 minutes or spend lots of time doing everything.

You mean this one?
No... the one I have in mind is bird's eye, and you get more people, and you can name them. I'll post if I find it.

[Eldariel]

Best/Worst: Faxanadu. It's a challenging side-scrolling rpg/adventure platformer. It's pretty unforigving, and looks really bizarre. it has awesome points and low points, and I seriously suggest anyone who remembers the NES days try it out, despite it's shortcomings.

Ugh, this game! We tried playing it as kids before we properly knew English. You can imagine how far we got. And I've got the soundtrack stuck in my head. I should replay it now that I can actually figure out what everyone is saying.

Uh, yeah, the obvious for me; Megaman 1-4 (rest too but especially 2, 3, 4 & 1), Super Mario Bros. 1 & 3, Battletoads, TMNT & TMNT2, Double Dragon, Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy, Adventures of Lolo (especially 3), etc.

Then few not-mentioned-yet:
Best: Mike Tyson's Knock-Out! Honestly, I don't get how this game hasn't been mentioned yet but it's brilliant. Simple, elegant, fun, played for hours.

Worst: Super Pitfall. Well, no need to say much of this; anyone who's ever played the game knows it's the worst platformer ever. It makes no sense, the gameplay is horrid, there was just no reason to play it. I tried it on one of those 100-game adapter collections.

Best: Nintendo World Cup! This game was hilarious, and actually quite challenging without the supers (not anymore but back then). Sure, it has nothing to do with football (5 players instead of 11, being allowed to KO players, etc.) but it's good, arcade fun! Being able to knockout the whole enemy team and optimizing player roles and such and a 4-man multiplayer, this was oodles of fun. 12800, West Germany, final destination.

Worst: **** Tracy. Was just random. Shoot an unarmed thug? You lose life. Makes sense, sorta, but didn't really flow with the gameplay. What are you supposed to do? Hell if I know. Apparently you try to solve some case but I never really figured out what you're actually supposed to be doing in the game. Of course, language barrier might've been a part of it too.

Best/Worst: Gold Medal Challenge '92. Nintendo actually had a lot of fun sports games, though only listing this here (not least of which 'cause I don't actually remember all the names; Blades of Steel was cool too and there was that one game that had everything from swim jumping to gliding). The mechanics were of course simple but having to aim the angles and get the tempo and marathon strategy and so on made it a tad more interactive than most sports games of the time. Was a lot of fun playing this one. On the flipside, it killed your fingers (in the ones that were about buttonsmashing)!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm just glad someone else remembers this game. I'd love to see the AVGN do an episode about it.

With Nintendo ganking all of the income from Youtube videos of Nintendo games, this is never going to happen anymore.

I will, however, agree that Faxanadu was a fun and challenging game. I did beat it, but it was NOT an easy challenge. The ghost hives... oh just gods, the ghost hives....

[ObadiahtheSlim]

One of the worst all time games, and I had the dishonor of owning it.

Where's Waldo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where%27s_Waldo%3F_%28video_game%29). The worst part of it all? I managed to beat it despite the headache inducing music because I was just that determined.

[Hunter Noventa]

With Nintendo ganking all of the income from Youtube videos of Nintendo games, this is never going to happen anymore.

I will, however, agree that Faxanadu was a fun and challenging game. I did beat it, but it was NOT an easy challenge. The ghost hives... oh just gods, the ghost hives....

Pretty sure that's only First Party games, Faxanadu was by Hudson Soft.

[TaRix]

Faxanadu just needed another pass or two through the debugger or something. All the characters blinked enough to generate breezes and spoke like beginning ventriloquists. Another bug that young-me remembered was that the pendant (optional powerup in its own mist-section dungeon) not only didn't strengthen you like the manual said it did, it weakened you. Or else it made all the monsters withstand a few extra hits.
Oh, and I read about another bug, too, though I never saw it myself. You can get too experienced and crash the game. Good thing experience didn't do anything except give you cash-on-dying.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Another one of the Worst:

Fester's Quest.

The game blew major chunks. Certain weapons which were supposed to be more powerful were so hard to aim that you couldn't hit anything, and the circular-pattern-bowling-ball gun didn't even fire all that well in tight quarters where it could not complete a revolution. The plot stank, the progression was worse, and the game as a whole was lousy.

[DigoDragon]

Battletoads

Yarrr, my nemesis! :smalltongue: I never got past the speeder bike in level 3 without cheating. It was just too frustratingly hard.

Faxanadu on the other hand I did beat. Once. Took me about 5 months though.

[tigerusthegreat]

I had a pretty limited library of NES games, many of them I got well later in life, and I'd still be playing most of them if my NES hadn't met with an unfortunate flood (lost my gold zelda cartridge, most of my N64 games and a 64 as well, but this was in 2010, so not like its a huge monetary loss).

My favorites in no particular order:

Mega Man 2: The only mega man game i owned, but I played quite a few. Not sure if my familiarity with it was a factor or the fact I actually could beat it regularly (mega man 4 was another good one but the Dr. Wily stages I could never beat).

Dragon Warrior: one of the first rpgs I ever played. I loved this game and spent so many hours on it it isn't funny. I brought the booklet with me to school and made notes on the map inside. One of the best bits of my childhood.

Zelda: Probably wasted a ton of hours on this one too, never actually beating it. The last temple was difficult, and I enjoyed just wandering around the world too much.

[danzibr]

One thing about Zelda... I never got all the hearts. There a couple hidden ones that you need bombs or the candle or something. I think the most I got was 18 (assuming 20 is the max).

[erikun]

One challenge of Zelda was finding all the hidden things scattered about the world. It was nice to go exploring, poking around and seeing what you can find.

That said, there were three heart containers hidden under burnable bushes/inside bombable walls, so those are probably the three you are missing. There were also two "in plain sight" (required the raft/ladder, but obvious to find if you went everywhere) and the rest were from completing dungeons.


Back on the topic of other games, if you liked the puzzles in Adventures of Lolo and Legend of Zelda, then I'll recommend Fire 'N Ice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_'n_Ice), a.k.a. Solomon's Key 2, as well. It is a good brain teaser to figure out how to complete each of the stages, much like Lolo (but harder) and Zelda's dungeons.

The first game, Solomon's Key (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon%27s_Key), is also good, but has a problem of not including a password/save game feature. The others are fun because you can pick them up, play a few stages, and come back when puzzling over a single stage to work on it later. Solomon's Key requires you to play through the whole game to get back to that point (minus Game Genie) which does hurt that aspect a bit. Still, fun game.

[Eldariel]

One challenge of Zelda was finding all the hidden things scattered about the world. It was nice to go exploring, poking around and seeing what you can find.

This was actually part of the design too; the whole idea behind the game would be that friend circles would play it and tell each other what they find and so on. Worked out beautifully for them.

[Giggling Ghast]

"AD&D: Heroes of the Lance" supported my belief that all things associated with the Dragonlance setting are unspeakably foul. The gameplay was bad, the dungeon was laid out by a madman and you couldn't win the stupid thing unless you kept a certain party member alive. I finished it, but I don't consider it to be much of an achievement.

[danzibr]

"AD&D: Heroes of the Lance" supported my belief that all things associated with the Dragonlance setting are unspeakably foul. The gameplay was bad, the dungeon was laid out by a madman and you couldn't win the stupid thing unless you kept a certain party member alive. I finished it, but I don't consider it to be much of an achievement.
OH! I was trying to think of that game. I never beat it without cheating :/

On an unrelated note, anyone know of a girl on YouTube who reviews retro games?

[snoopy13a]

Let's see:

Zelda
Zelda 2
Super Mario 2
Blades of Steel (the loser of a hockey fight gets sent to the penalty box)
Ice Hockey (with skinny guy, fat guy, and medium guy, as well as brawls)
Mike Tyson's Punch Out
Tecmo Bowl and Super Tecmo Bowl (Video Game Bo Jackson was the greatest video game athlete ever)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PBvOxicz-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4e38fL9pr8
Duck Tales


Best-ever intro for a Game!
Bad Dudes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evKkHi_qmo

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Gameplay was alright, but Gyruss had one of the best sound tracks for it's era. It's not often you get to play video games to an 8-bit rock remix of Toccata and Fugue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdxTYW-_8f8)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Gameplay was alright, but Gyruss had one of the best sound tracks for it's era. It's not often you get to play video games to an 8-bit rock remix of Toccata and Fugue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdxTYW-_8f8)

Yea, Gyruss had some really badass soundtracks.

[IrnBruAddict]

Best: Well, since no one has mentioned it so far, I'll say Bayou Billy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYkChIGEI9c). I loved this game despite how hard it was. It's pretty much Streets of Rage with driving stages and alligators.

Worst: Dragon's Lair (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc9Hjdd6q1o). Never played the original, but the NES game was horrible! It required pixel perfect jumps and the pace was slow as hell. Every death felt cheap.

[Airk]

Worst: Dragon's Lair (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc9Hjdd6q1o). Never played the original, but the NES game was horrible! It required pixel perfect jumps and the pace was slow as hell. Every death felt cheap.

Couldn't possibly be any worse than the original, which was essentially one super long, timing intensive quicktime event. :P

Personal bests:
Contra
Castlevania 2 (yeah yeah, bite me, I loved this game)
Mega Man 2

Persona worsts:
Dragon Warrior. Oh god, this game was SO BORING. (Sorry to the guy who liked it) When you're 13, and you STILL think a game is boring and grindy, then that game is REALLY boring and grindy. Every time I catch myself thinking a game is too grindy, I get flashbacks to metal slimes and gold men, and realize "Hah, this is nothing compared to the crap I dealt with in Dragon Warrior."
Deadly Towers. What was UP with this game? It -sounds- good on paper, but wow, it was...bad.

[Tengu_temp]

Couldn't possibly be any worse than the original, which was essentially one super long, timing intensive quicktime event. :P


And it was awesome, because the animation was amazing (hell yeah Don Bluth) and a lot of the scenes were funny.

I played the NES Dragon's Lair, and let me tell you: it deserves every single ounce of hate it gets. It's the embodiment of "oops, the game we made is disgustingly short, so let's make it unfairly difficult to add fake length". The controls suck, surprise enemies kill you in one hit, the doors kill you in one hit, the game is sluggish and can be made unwinnable by a very easy mistake, and overall it's not fun. At least the graphics are decent.

[erikun]

Couldn't possibly be any worse than the original, which was essentially one super long, timing intensive quicktime event. :P

Personal bests:
Contra
Castlevania 2 (yeah yeah, bite me, I loved this game)
Mega Man 2

Persona worsts:
Dragon Warrior. Oh god, this game was SO BORING. (Sorry to the guy who liked it) When you're 13, and you STILL think a game is boring and grindy, then that game is REALLY boring and grindy. Every time I catch myself thinking a game is too grindy, I get flashbacks to metal slimes and gold men, and realize "Hah, this is nothing compared to the crap I dealt with in Dragon Warrior."
Deadly Towers. What was UP with this game? It -sounds- good on paper, but wow, it was...bad.
Castlevania 2 build up a good atmosphere, and it was certainly a good idea at first glance. However, the jumping, the empty castles, the "puzzles", and just generally needing to use holy water on 99% of every castle you visit made actually playing the game again not that much fun. :smallannoyed:

Also, I'd say just about any RPG on the NES wasn't that great, unless you intentionally want to play some retro turn-based RPGs. The only exceptions I can think of are Ultima IV (which was really great) and maybe Dragon Quest/Warrior IV (which I haven't played, so can't judge).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Couldn't possibly be any worse than the original, which was essentially one super long, timing intensive quicktime event. :P

Personal bests:
Contra
Castlevania 2 (yeah yeah, bite me, I loved this game)
Mega Man 2Castlevania 2 was the opposite of good. It was the very definition, perhaps the codifying instance, of 'bad sequel'.


Persona worsts:
Dragon Warrior. Oh god, this game was SO BORING. (Sorry to the guy who liked it) When you're 13, and you STILL think a game is boring and grindy, then that game is REALLY boring and grindy. Every time I catch myself thinking a game is too grindy, I get flashbacks to metal slimes and gold men, and realize "Hah, this is nothing compared to the crap I dealt with in Dragon Warrior."It was only grindy if you tried to get up over level 20, and only if you wanted to hunt down metal slimes instead of doing a few Dragon Castle runs. You got a lot more xp out of running down to the bottom level of the final castle and killing red dragons and such until you got low enough on MP that you had the 10 MP left for Outside and Return. Then heal up and do it again. After three or four runs, you hit level 20, and the boss was a snap. You got the 14k for the silver shield in the process. No needing to farm goldmen or metal slimes.

Deadly Towers. What was UP with this game? It -sounds- good on paper, but wow, it was...bad.

Now there we can agree.

[Calemyr]

Also, I'd say just about any RPG on the NES wasn't that great, unless you intentionally want to play some retro turn-based RPGs. The only exceptions I can think of are Ultima IV (which was really great) and maybe Dragon Quest/Warrior IV (which I haven't played, so can't judge).

Dragon Quest/Warrior IV is possibly the finest NES-era RPG I ever played. It actually created a massive cast, an intricate, multi-thread storyline, a surprisingly sympathetic villain (in an era where villains were just expected to be capital-E Evil without justification), and a main character that doesn't show up until after EVERYONE else has had their moment to shine. Also, this game has Taloon, and that wins the crown on its own. Taloon, the man who can confuse enemies with a twirl of his fingers. Taloon, the man who can score a critical hit (unsettlingly often) by tripping on his own shoelaces. That was the first game I ever played and walked away saying "that was freaking epic".

[Airk]

Castlevania 2 was the opposite of good. It was the very definition, perhaps the codifying instance, of 'bad sequel'.

My experience was probably different because I had a strategy guide that prevented me from having to do the whole "hit every block with Holy Water" thing, so pretty much all of the negatives fade away in light of that. And actually, I would question erikun's statement that having to holy water lots of stuff made repeat playthroughs less fun. Why would you need to holy water all the stuff on a subsequent playthrough? You should at least MOSTLY remember where the like, 3 important items that you need to holy water for are. And how can you fault the JUMPING? It's NOTHING compared to brutal setups in the original that would KILL you if you screwed up. If that's all that's wrong with the game, it's not bad at all. Sorry. And as mentioned, the atmosphere was great, as was the music.

I'd give the "bad sequel" award for that series to Castlevania 3.



It was only grindy if you tried to get up over level 20, and only if you wanted to hunt down metal slimes instead of doing a few Dragon Castle runs. You got a lot more xp out of running down to the bottom level of the final castle and killing red dragons and such until you got low enough on MP that you had the 10 MP left for Outside and Return. Then heal up and do it again. After three or four runs, you hit level 20, and the boss was a snap. You got the 14k for the silver shield in the process. No needing to farm goldmen or metal slimes.

Are we playing the same game? I needed to grind LONG before I could even GET to the final castle. Long before. The whole game was nothing BUT grinding. Literally. NOTHING. "Kill monsters until you can afford the gear in this town, so you can get to the next town, so you can kill monsters..." The final castle was probably the LEAST grindy part of that game for me. Yuk.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Castlevania 3 (JPN) was awesome. Castlevania 3 (US) not so much. I'd class it more as porting problems than anything.

[erikun]

My experience was probably different because I had a strategy guide that prevented me from having to do the whole "hit every block with Holy Water" thing, so pretty much all of the negatives fade away in light of that. And actually, I would question erikun's statement that having to holy water lots of stuff made repeat playthroughs less fun. Why would you need to holy water all the stuff on a subsequent playthrough? You should at least MOSTLY remember where the like, 3 important items that you need to holy water for are. And how can you fault the JUMPING? It's NOTHING compared to brutal setups in the original that would KILL you if you screwed up. If that's all that's wrong with the game, it's not bad at all. Sorry. And as mentioned, the atmosphere was great, as was the music.

I'd give the "bad sequel" award for that series to Castlevania 3.
I'm probably going to be unpopular saying this, but I didn't like the Castlevania series at all. The jumping and controls were terrible in all of them. I guess they were trying to create a weakening and stifling feel with the controls, but they just generated frustration instead.

And the problem with holy water wasn't that you needed it to find the few secret items. The problem was that you needed to scrub the castle floors with the stuff to avoid stepping into an invisible pit. And in most places, this would drop you on an enemy which would shove you into spikes/water, making it an instant kill. If you had the maps available/memorized so that you knew where all the pits were, then sure, the game was easier - but that's a lot of mapping for what was basically poor design.


It was only grindy if you tried to get up over level 20, and only if you wanted to hunt down metal slimes instead of doing a few Dragon Castle runs. You got a lot more xp out of running down to the bottom level of the final castle and killing red dragons and such until you got low enough on MP that you had the 10 MP left for Outside and Return. Then heal up and do it again. After three or four runs, you hit level 20, and the boss was a snap. You got the 14k for the silver shield in the process. No needing to farm goldmen or metal slimes.
I have to agree with Airk - the original Dragon Warrior was one of the grindiest games I've ran into, beyond ones that intentionally try to do so. Every town involved a lengthy stream of battles until you could afford the weapons before even chancing the next area, and walking all the way back to the home castle to save just made everything slower.

Even Final Fantasy wasn't that bad, as at least you felt like you could chance running to the different towns.

[Airk]

I'm probably going to be unpopular saying this, but I didn't like the Castlevania series at all. The jumping and controls were terrible in all of them. I guess they were trying to create a weakening and stifling feel with the controls, but they just generated frustration instead.

This is a legitimate opinion - the controls in Castlevania games were clearly very different from other platformers of the era, with the fixed jump direction and distance (None of this Metroid style "I can jump forward, then curve back in midair and land on a platform directly above where I started" stuff) and the 'knockback' on hits. That said, the game was also designed so that it -worked- with those controls. It just wasn't forgiving.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Are we playing the same game? I needed to grind LONG before I could even GET to the final castle. Long before. The whole game was nothing BUT grinding. Literally. NOTHING. "Kill monsters until you can afford the gear in this town, so you can get to the next town, so you can kill monsters..." The final castle was probably the LEAST grindy part of that game for me. Yuk.

Seriously? I was in the ending castle by around level 14, sometimes as early as 12.

After my first time around, I pretty much skipped most of the armor, and around level 6 or 8, I went straight for the final armor in the enemy town, using fairy water to bypass most of combat so I could save everything for that axe knight. I rushed the ending castle to get the final sword, generally I went from the Copper Sword to the Broad Sword to the final sword. So the only thing I had to grind cash for was the shield. Heck, I skipped the princess entirely because she really didn't do anything relevant once I figured out where in that swamp the token was.

I quickly realized that trying to grind iron slimes was an act of futility, I'd much rather have a consistent stream of xp than random bursts that were problematic.

Once I got Healmore, I hit that end castle hard. Save 10 mana for Outside + Return. That got me up to the point where I could take out the final boss.

[Airk]

Seriously? I was in the ending castle by around level 14, sometimes as early as 12.

Look. I played this game over TWENTY years ago. Asking me to remember what LEVEL I was when I finally got to the final castle is pretty stupid, don't you think?



After my first time around,

After your first time around? Sweet mother of Christmas, I would rather have gone out into the woods and whittled myself a wooden replica of an NES than play that game more than once.



... I pretty much skipped most of the armor, and around level 6 or 8, I went straight for the final armor in the enemy town, using fairy water to bypass most of combat so I could save everything for that axe knight. I rushed the ending castle to get the final sword, generally I went from the Copper Sword to the Broad Sword to the final sword. So the only thing I had to grind cash for was the shield. Heck, I skipped the princess entirely because she really didn't do anything relevant once I figured out where in that swamp the token was.

I quickly realized that trying to grind iron slimes was an act of futility, I'd much rather have a consistent stream of xp than random bursts that were problematic.

Once I got Healmore, I hit that end castle hard. Save 10 mana for Outside + Return. That got me up to the point where I could take out the final boss.

So let me get this straight. Castlevania 2 is a bad game because of a bunch of stuff that can be avoided in subsequent playthroughs, but Dragon Warrior is an AWESOME GAME because you can avoid all the **** in subsequent playthroughs? Is that how we're playing this?

Playing through the game once was excruciating. Maybe that just means I hadn't figured out how to properly game the system, but why would I WANT to? There was nothing else to do in the game but grind and kill monsters.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So let me get this straight. Castlevania 2 is a bad game because of a bunch of stuff that can be avoided in subsequent playthroughs, but Dragon Warrior is an AWESOME GAME because you can avoid all the **** in subsequent playthroughs? Is that how we're playing this?Castlevania 2 was a bazillionty times more grindy than Dragon Warrior ever thought of being, at least from my perspective. But honestly, I gave up on it at some point because I couldn't figure out how to advance. It's a classic case of 'Guide Dang It'. At least Dragon Warrior had an adequate means of showing you where to go next.

[Drascin]

Did nobody seriously mention Kid Icarus?

For real?

[JustSomeGuy]

Ghosts and goblins
bomberman
duck hunt

My elder brother and i would sit for hours going through games like castlevania II, tennage turtles and probotector (british contra but with robots and aliens); i never finished turtles (i always died in the technodrome) but my brother could get to shredder, and my eldest brother could beat him - drunk! He would come home from an evening out and sit up playing on our NES, evidently pretty well.
We coulkd do castlevania, but we had a strategy magazine section from one of the NES magazines, otherwise no chance - but we loved that game. We did 2 player on probotector, and memorized literally every step through trial and error to the point that the most dangerous bit was when we got to the vertical jump sections where we would passive-deliberately try and kill each other by jumping the screen up! Then i would get upset with him because he was inevitably better, good times!

[snoopy13a]

I forgot about Chip 'N Dale's Rescue Rangers. It was a co-op game and you could pick up and throw your friend into bad guys.

[danzibr]

I forgot about Chip 'N Dale's Rescue Rangers. It was a co-op game and you could pick up and throw your friend into bad guys.
That game is so friggin' hard.

And lol at the older brother better even while drunk :P

[dirtytricks]

Best
1. Dragon Warrior 4 this was the game that started my love of video games.

2. Strider. Could never beat the last boss.

3. Castlevania 2: Simon's quest. Epic game.

4. Master blaster. Crazy hard.

5. Tyson's punch-out. Still can't beat iron mike. 007 373 5963


Worst.
1. Milton's secret castle. I hated its electronic guts

2. Kung-fu ....

I think all the rest were purged or forgotten. Its been 25 years or so...

[onionbreath]

My favorites have already been listed:
- River City Ransom
- Ice Hockey (never take a middle guy BTW)
- Punch Out
- The Legend of Zelda
- Mega Man 2 (Flash Man weapon on Quick Man stage is my favorite weapon interaction from the series. What I don't understand though, is that Hard Mode was an awesome feature. Why didn't they keep it in later games?)
- Battletoads (The stage where you race to the bottom to defuse bombs is one of my favorites ever)
- Metroid
- Tecmo Super Bowl
- Dragon Warrior 4
- Final Fantasy
- Dragon Warrior (ok, this is a nostalgic addition. I wouldn't go back and play it now - it didn't age well and it is grindy. However, I bought it shortly after release and it was awesome for its time.)

I'd also like to give props to some great games that haven't been mentioned yet.
- Super Dodge Ball
- The Immortal
- Bionic Commando
- Clash at Demonhead
- Shadowgate, Deja Vu, The Uninvited
- Bomberman
- Stinger
- Super Mario Bros. (Overall, is this game even in the top 25? I don't know. But consider that it was a launch title and was still better than many of the games released over the entire life of the console. That's impressive.)
- Double Dragon
- Renegade
- 8 Eyes
- Bubble Bobble
- Golgo 13

Worst:
- Dragon's Lair (only redeeming value is that the AVGN review of this game is awesome)
- Hydlide
- Amagon

[Thrudd]

Best
1. Dragon Warrior 4 this was the game that started my love of video games.

2. Strider. Could never beat the last boss.

3. Castlevania 2: Simon's quest. Epic game.

4. Master blaster. Crazy hard.

5. Tyson's punch-out. Still can't beat iron mike. 007 373 5963


Worst.
1. Milton's secret castle. I hated its electronic guts

2. Kung-fu ....

I think all the rest were purged or forgotten. Its been 25 years or so...

Master Blaster! I played that game for hours at a time...no saving your game, those were the good old days. I loved the music in level 6 and 7, and the at the end of 8. It was sort of epic/frenetic at the same time. I did beat it, but that last boss is crazy hard, I don't know how many playthroughs it took me to finally win.

I had Strider, too, don't remember if I beat the last boss. I'm pretty sure I did, or I would have played it more, I think.


Everyone has already mentioned River City Ransom, which was also one of my favorites. Beat people up and take their money! Did anyone else just buy the weapon power upgrade, whatever it was called, and beat the sh** out of everything with a chain at turbo speed? And the acro circus so your jumps would damage people, too. lol It almost seemed unfair.

Tecmo also made a few other games in the vein of River City Ransom that I loved. Somebody mentioned Tecmo World Cup, which was awesome. The super kicks were just too easy, though. Just bicycle kick and flying head repeatedly and go all "Shaolin Soccer", blowing the goalie off the field. Good times.
I actually liked "Super Dodge Ball", which I think might have been pre-River City Ransom, also way too easy, but it was fun with friends. For some reason I never got tired of watching those little guys' eyes bug out and send them flying around the world (they get bashed off one side of the screen and come flying in from the opposite side before hitting the ground and rolling backwards halfway across the screen).

"Crash and the Boys: Street Challenge" was another good one, post-RCR I think. Same graphics as RCR, but it was a "Street Olympics" competition, where rival high schools take part in unsanctioned track-and-field events that involve dangerous and violent elements. Like running hurdles, but you can shoulder plow through the hurdles and pick up pieces of them to throw or swing at the guy in the other lane, or just do a double dragon style hurricane kick when the guy tries to pass you. You have a swimming race where your goal is to drown the other guy by kicking him under water or jumping on his back and holding him down. And then there is the straight up one on one street fight. It was fun because all the characters in the game have different stats, you need to choose who is appropriate for each event, and you could play with four players in a tournament.

I played double dragon and double dragon 2 quite a bit. DD2 was a little easier than 1, but it could be more fun because you started out a full moveset, you didn't need to learn how to uppercut and jump kick.

Battletoads! Loved it! I probably would never have beaten it if I didn't have Nintendo Power magazine showing a walkthrough of all the levels. But once I got it, I could pretty much beat it at will. I had all the levels memorized. Mostly it was fun with friends, we would just run around the first level and beat eachother up. The music in that game was fun, too.

I love the entire Mega Man series. MM2 had some awesome music that I still remember, probably because I owned it the longest and played the most. But I have played through and beat or got to the final Wily boss all of them, 1-6.

Original Castlevania was one of the first games I ever played, we got it at the same time as the NES itself, along with SMB. So, although I understand people's frustration with the controls, I really got good at that game. It actually is very short, and once you've got it down it isn't that hard. I knew exactly what weapon I needed to keep equipped for each stage, where all the breakaway wall items were, I could run through it in 15-20 minutes. It's easiest if you avoid dying, so you never lose your powered up chain and the appropriate triple powered weapon :smallwink:

I did not like Castlevania 2, either along with most others. I did like Castlevania 3, though I never beat it. Only rented it, I thought it was fun using the other characters.

Kirby's Adventure was lots of fun. I'm pretty sure I got 100% on it eventually.

Metroid and Zelda barely need mentioning, all agree two of the finest games ever made for NES. Final Fantasy, too. Countless hours playing that.

Did anyone else have a game called "Solstice"? It was a weird and frustrating 3d puzzle game, with this wizard who is wandering around a castle looking for the pieces of a magic staff. At one point I was totally obsessed with it. I did learn a cheat that gave me infinite lives and could refill all my potions, that's the only way I got to the end of it.

Gauntlet was ok, but Gauntlet 2 was way better. It supported 4 players, (if you had the special 4-way controller thing), and it has the voice emulator "Red Warrior needs food badly!" "Green Elf is about to die!" The first Gauntlet was actually kind of annoying. The graphics were bad, the warrior moved so slowly it would take you forever to get anywhere, the elf was so fast that he could outrun his own arrows.

I don't think I ever beat Mike in Punch Out! either. lol

Has nobody mentioned "Ninja Gaiden" yet? That game was pretty darn cool when it came out. It was definately hard, I don't think I ever finished it.

[danzibr]

@onionbreath: Agreed with Hydlide sucking. The cover made it look so cool too :(

@Thrudd: Yeah, I played a good bit of Solstice. That game is so damn hard.

[TaRix]

A couple that I really liked that probably went under a lot of radar were a couple of action-adventures/puzzles: Magician (great sound and NO grinding) and Nightshade (fun and funny, multiple ways to solve some problems)

And while I'm thinking of action-adventure, there's Crystalis as well, which was pretty advanced for its time.

One POS game I wish I never tried: Overlord (for the NES). Supposedly a strategic resource-management game, nothing much makes sense. About the only way to make headway is to horribly abuse event conditions (fertility bonus? Tax everybody 120%!)

[erikun]

Everyone has already mentioned River City Ransom, which was also one of my favorites. Beat people up and take their money! Did anyone else just buy the weapon power upgrade, whatever it was called, and beat the sh** out of everything with a chain at turbo speed? And the acro circus so your jumps would damage people, too. lol It almost seemed unfair.

I actually liked "Super Dodge Ball", which I think might have been pre-River City Ransom, also way too easy, but it was fun with friends. For some reason I never got tired of watching those little guys' eyes bug out and send them flying around the world (they get bashed off one side of the screen and come flying in from the opposite side before hitting the ground and rolling backwards halfway across the screen).

"Crash and the Boys: Street Challenge" was another good one, post-RCR I think. Same graphics as RCR, but it was a "Street Olympics" competition, where rival high schools take part in unsanctioned track-and-field events that involve dangerous and violent elements. Like running hurdles, but you can shoulder plow through the hurdles and pick up pieces of them to throw or swing at the guy in the other lane, or just do a double dragon style hurricane kick when the guy tries to pass you. You have a swimming race where your goal is to drown the other guy by kicking him under water or jumping on his back and holding him down. And then there is the straight up one on one street fight. It was fun because all the characters in the game have different stats, you need to choose who is appropriate for each event, and you could play with four players in a tournament.
There's a reason for this. River City Ransom, Super Dodge Ball, and Crash and the Boys are all part of the same Kunio-kun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunio-kun) franchise, with the same characters and done by the same producers. They just received (for some strange reason) different names and translations in all the different games.

Another one was Nintendo World Cup, which came with the 4-player adapter and was a silly soccer game in the same vein as Super Dodge Ball/Crash and the Boys. I say silly because while it was about scoring goals, you could also smack around and even take out opponents by, say, punting the ball into them enough until they fell down. :smallbiggrin:

[Choyrt]

Best: Milon's Secret Castle. Few words can describe the joy this game brought to me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Milon's_Secret_Castle_cover.jpg/252px-Milon's_Secret_Castle_cover.jpg


Best: Ninja Gaiden. I loved it to no end, and had the game so memorized that after sitting in storage for ten years I dug it out and played through it and beat it in one sitting.

http://cdn.staticneo.com/w/ninjagaiden/3/3d/Ninja_gaiden_nes.jpg


Best: Master Blaster. OH MY GOD!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vg2SEZfWIz4/S2DXy1JCr1I/AAAAAAAABuI/igbD2XVL9jk/s400/NES-VM-COVER.jpg




Worst: Predator. 100% crap.

Worst: I don't remember the name, but you played as a scrawny guy with an M16 on an island. It was a platformer and you could power up into a super buff version of yourself that bounced sound waves off your chest. Brutally hard game that had major slow-down issues and crappy sound.

[Airk]

I really enjoyed Blaster Master, but I have a hard time giving it a "best" because honestly, it was too big and too long to be a game with no password or save feature. Adding one of these, even if they required you to start back at the beginning location, would have easily made this game into one of the best on the platform, but without it, it's honestly hard for me to recommend.

I liked Strider, but I don't remember the last boss being overly challenging. OTOH, I never DID beat the blighter at the end of Ninja Gaiden. =/

All of these games get resounding "good"s from me, but I don't know that they make it into a "best"