"Hold Person" - why is it divine?

[Kami2awa]

I've been wondering about this for a while. Most divine spells are either buffs, healing or some kind of reference to legendary miracles (smiting enemies with fire, etc). However, I don't know any legend of the power of gods being use to paralyse somone. Why have clerics always been the ones to get Hold Person as a spell?

[obryn]

Well, it is a pretty "peaceful" way of neutralizing an enemy. You know, no bloodshed.

(Until you murder them, that is, which is the immediate and obvious use for the spell.)

-O

[Frozen_Feet]

People being paralyzed by awe is a thing in mythology. Read more of it. So are divine entities against which even strongest people are powerless.

[Souju]

People being paralyzed by awe is a thing in mythology. Read more of it. So are divine entities against which even strongest people are powerless.

funny thing is there's a spell (in pathfinder, at least) that does exactly that as well. Nasty spell that inflicts stat drain, too.

As for why hold person is divine...what better way for someone working for a good god to neutralize someone than to make it so they can commit no hostile actions?
And what better way for someone working for an evil god to neutralize someone than to take away their freedom and make it so they can only watch while someone walks up to them and slits their throat?

Also we found out the hard way that it's a great way to keep the paladin from doing something Lawful Stupid or Stupid Good without actually attacking him. If you can actually land it, of course.

[Sebastrd]

Also we found out the hard way that it's a great way to keep the paladin from doing something Lawful Stupid or Stupid Good without actually attacking him. If you can actually land it, of course.

If a fellow player ever cast hold person on me to stop me from doing something they disagreed with, and the DM allowed it, we'd not be playing together anymore.

[SethoMarkus]

If a fellow player ever cast hold person on me to stop me from doing something they disagreed with, and the DM allowed it, we'd not be playing together anymore.

I don't know, I can see this being a great roleplaying opportunity if both players were fine with it out-of-character, but in-character the paladin was upset with the cleric.

[Kid Jake]

Because Clerics want nice things too?

[Craft (Cheese)]

I don't know, I can see this being a great roleplaying opportunity if both players were fine with it out-of-character, but in-character the paladin was upset with the cleric.

Some people just don't like PvP, and even those who don't mind PvP usually have boundaries as to what is and what isn't acceptable to do to other party members as part of in-character conflict (and a "screw you, I win" spell like Hold Person is a good candidate for something that crosses the line). So I can understand his objection, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

[LibraryOgre]

If a fellow player ever cast hold person on me to stop me from doing something they disagreed with, and the DM allowed it, we'd not be playing together anymore.


I don't know, I can see this being a great roleplaying opportunity if both players were fine with it out-of-character, but in-character the paladin was upset with the cleric.

I played in an early Pathfinder game where the drow insisted on casting a spell on my dwarf (who hated him, especially since he was convinced that I should simply accept his word that he's a good drow).

This resulted in him being tripped and repeatedly thumped.

Ah, here's the story...

So, I've had a change of character in our Pathfinder game. I was playing a LG Dwarf Ranger/Rogue in our Night Below game. In the Herenshire, the word of Rangers has the force of law outside of towns, a fact I did not remember, but did me little good in the game (since we went from having two followers of Chaos to having a follower of Chaos and a Paladin of Fluffy-bunniness).

In clearing out the Goblins in south Herenshire, a party member was revealed to be a drow... he is, in theory, a LG celestial-blooded sorcerer. Now, this party member had traveled with us for months, never revealing his nature. He was still using the gifts of his dark mistress, while claming to follow Matus, the deity of just lordship. Of course, given that he revealed himself while negotiating a truce with goblins, and had previously shown a preference for charming folk into doing his bidding (orcs and a bandit, no less), my dwarf was extremely distrustful of him. He was fairly certain that the Paladin sticking up for him was charmed. With great reluctance, I let him live until we got to town. At town, they punted it to the local count (since being a drow is illegal, but the squire wasn't sure what would happen if he ordered the drow executed), and the count put him on probation.

We went on a bit, tracking down some missing pilgrims. We found a scene of carnage, and were attacked by chaos beasts (imagine if a krenshar and a displacer beast had a particularly ugly child), and, while we defeated them, most of us were injured. The drow offered to heal people. I declined. He attempted to do so anyway, using this bolt of light which was, to my dwarf's mind, quite similar to the Magic Missiles he'd been tossing around.

My dwarf, being under attack by a drow, quite naturally fought back. I went up to trip him (had a nice trip build going... trip, then sneak attack when they stand up), and missed. The elf wizard (who is claiming he's not evil about as convincingly as a dwarf can claim to be a titan with a glandular condition) decides that this has to stop, and throws a color spray... which knocks out the drow, but leaves the dwarf untouched. My dwarf considers this to be aid, so does nothing to the elf at this point.

Now the paladin comes up and argues that I was not being attacked, I was being healed. I point out that I had declined this spell to be cast on me, he did it anyway, and I cannot be sure he was attempting to heal me, since the two look identical (my dwarf had no ranks in spellcraft). During the course of this argument, the elf decides I'm being too rough with the unconcious drow (thumping him with the butt of my axe to emphasize points), so he casts Ray of Enfeeblement on me. This is an attack, which results in him getting tripped, and then punched in the face when he tries to get up to run. (It should be pointed out that, at this point, the other two party members were making very good arguments as to why we should not be killing people, and my dwarf had modified his plan to simply break the hands of the drow, not kill him).

The result? My dwarf leaves them on the moors. They get back days after me, my own story already having been told, and have to confirm my story, instead of telling it first. And my dwarf now patrols a section of the hills, while they left those pilgrims to die. And I'm now playing a summon-heavy druid with an impish streak in her (she tried to convince the paladin that tiny trolls lived inside her, causing her pain every month because she didn't take care of them... the paladin insists that she has seldom seen herself naked).