Preparing for mid-late game as a wizard in 3.5

[Reprimand]

I'm playing an all wizard game and I'm fairly new to wizards in general this is my first time ever attempting a fully optimized wizard.

I'm currently playing a wizard 5 / incantatrix 3 / Initiate of the sevenfold veil 2

level 20 goal is wiz5/incantrix3/IotSV7/ArchMage5

What are some things I should be doing to prepare for late game other than collecting spells.

What are some magic items I would want to have other than say pearls of power etc.

Or what should I be doing to prepare for late game other than say swapping out spells like sleep or color spray?

what are some must have crafting feats.

Worth mentioning My character is neutral and isn't opposed to crafting items to anyone for profit.

All sources are open at this point.

[herrhauptmann]

Archmage is weak, a lot weaker than your other two prestige classes. At 12-13 years old, it's a victim of powercreep. (You'd be better off finishing incantatrix)

What are the other wizards doing in your game? Are they all going pure caster? If so, you could differentiate yourself a little by going gish. Pick up 1 level of fighter, then take abjurant champion for 5 levels. It'll give all your abjurations a large boost too.


If you expect interparty conflict, and know that one of them is going to use spells like souljar, you can pick up Impotent Possessor and Imprison Possessor. You trap the possessing spirit in its vessel, then remove its ability to influence thehost.

[Snowbluff]

SPELLS! SPELLS ARE ALL YOU NEED!

I'd link Treatmonk's spell list, but I seem to have misplaced it.

You should buy and scribe scrolls into your spellbook. If you want to be mean, Alacritous Cogitation and then Versatile Spellcaster for essentially spontaneous casting.

[Reprimand]

What about a breakdown of how I should be spending my day more efficently?

Basically right now I'm spending 8 hours adventuring, 8 hours crafting and 8 hours resting each day. Should I really be doing anything else?

Also I was going to go archmage because I really have nothing better to do with 5 levels that remain pure arcane caster

Is there another 5 level PRC that could replace archmage while remaining pure caster?

Also I'm a human so I can't go shadowcraft mage.

Besides I really like the one ability that lets me trade a spell slot for 2 lower level spells as a spell like ability.

EDIT: party conflict is not expected so far. Everyone has really been cool about everything so far.

[Snowbluff]

You should be spending as little time crafting as possible. I would make a Craft Wright if I could.


Besides I really like the one ability that lets me trade a spell slot for 2 lower level spells as a spell like ability.

Are you referring to versatile spellcaster? Yes, it's great even if you are not cheesing it.

[herrhauptmann]

Really think you'd be better off finishing incantatrix over taking archmage. It lets you do more of everything that wizards do.

Take an ACF to trade away your familiar. Then if you really want a pet, take the feat Obtain Familiar. Now you've got a familiar tied to your caster level, not your wizard level. Prestige away!

SPELLS! SPELLS ARE ALL YOU NEED!
I'd link Treatmonk's spell list, but I seem to have misplaced it.
You should buy and scribe scrolls into your spellbook. If you want to be mean, Alacritous Cogitation and then Versatile Spellcaster for essentially spontaneous casting.

Collegiate wizard as your first level feat.
Especially if your DM doesn't let you buy access to extra spells before game start. It'll double your spells known, without having to pay for scribing costs.

I've got the logic ninja guide to batman, never bookmarked the treantmonk one. Here's the post with prestige classes. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5738049&postcount=2 It could do with better formatting to make them look stand out better, but oh well.

edit:


Also I was going to go archmage because I really have nothing better to do with 5 levels that remain pure arcane caster

Is there another 5 level PRC that could replace archmage while remaining pure caster?
There's plenty of prc's you can take that are full casting.
Not many are 5 levels, most are 10. As 10 levelers, they're open for Epic versions.
If you can't finish a prc, don't sweat it. Not getting a capstone isn't a big deal, not when you're getting spells, caster level, and class features all the way to level 20.

How about sacred exorcist (complet arcane)




Besides I really like the one ability that lets me trade a spell slot for 2 lower level spells as a spell like ability.
Personally never liked that trading spells for low level abilities. Maybe if you can turn the SLAs into SU or EX abilities...
But that's just me.

[Reprimand]

Really think you'd be better off finishing incantatrix over taking archmage. It lets you do more of everything that wizards do.

Take an ACF to trade away your familiar. Then if you really want a pet, take the feat Obtain Familiar. Now you've got a familiar tied to your caster level, not your wizard level. Prestige away!


Collegiate wizard as your first level feat.
Especially if your DM doesn't let you buy access to extra spells before game start. It'll double your spells known, without having to pay for scribing costs.

I've got the logic ninja guide to batman, never bookmarked the treantmonk one. Here's the post with prestige classes. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5738049&postcount=2 It could do with better formatting to make them look stand out better, but oh well.

edit:

There's plenty of prc's you can take that are full casting.
Not many are 5 levels, most are 10. As 10 levelers, they're open for Epic versions.
If you can't finish a prc, don't sweat it. Not getting a capstone isn't a big deal, not when you're getting spells, caster level, and class features all the way to level 20.

How about sacred exorcist (complet arcane)


Personally never liked that trading spells for low level abilities. Maybe if you can turn the SLAs into SU or EX abilities...
But that's just me.

I already took the forlorn flaw (trade familar for feat)

What exactly would I get out of finishing out incantatrix vs archmage?

[herrhauptmann]

Hmm, usually people lose their familiars for ACFs like Abrupt Jaunt (Conjurer). As a spellcaster, I think shaky would be a good flaw. You'll rarely do ranged non-touch attacks. And touch attacks are easy to make.


Incantatrix things you gain.
2 bonus metamagics.
Applyig your metamagics to spelltrigger items. In case you know, you run out of metamagic effect uses.
Seize concentration: Take over concentration of a spell from an ally/enemy. Your fort save will be low, wouldn't it be nice to take that Implosion spell away from an enemy?
Instant Metamagic.
Snatch spell: Now you can steal even more spells from your enemies.
3 extra feat slots from not having to take Skill Focus and Spell Focusx2. Not that these are bad feats, they're just unnecessary.



Archmage things you don't need:
Giving up valuable spells/day.
Arcane Fire: See Reserve Feats.
Counterspelling: Buy a ring of spellbattle instead.
Mastery of Elements: If you're optimizing, you won't be doing damage anyway. And if you are, just get Energy Substitution.
Spell Power: Lose a 5th level spell to get a +1 CL? there's better ways to get that +1 CL.

Google the various wizard threads. Notice how rarely Archmage shows up? (Mastery of shaping is nice of course, but I think you can do that with a feat anyway)

[Reprimand]

Actually my DM is letting my BUY some of the bad feats with wealth per level about 18000 gold for: spell focus abjuration and greater version, skill focus and iron will

Really I would only have to shell out for another spell focus or buy another one.

so for about 18k gold at some time or another I just net feats + the two from my flaws

It's also worth mentioning that I'm an abjurer (Yes I know it's not as great as conjurer) we have a wizard for each school of magic in the party.

I have mentioned this is an all wizard game yes?

EDIT: I ended up banning evocation and enchantment. For incantrix I banned necromancy since I prefer illusion over that.

[Story]

Incantrix is still better then pretty much anything else you can do. There are some Prcs that are broken if you abuse them. Incantrix is broken as designed. And it just gets worse if you know how to boost your spellcraft checks.

At level 17 you can have Shapechange up 24/7. Nothing else really compares.

[ryu]

All other wizard prestige classes must look at Incantrix and ask themselves one simple question: Am I as wonderful as free persist, cheaper other metamagic, a whole pile of free metamagic feats, various abilities that help with enemy casters and boost the effectiveness of ally casters, and a smattering of various miscellaneous bonuses that are completely free on top of everything else?

Kinda skeptical one such thing exists. I'd pretty much finish incantrix and then sevenfold vales as soon as possible. If all of those tasty things together don't break the game I don't know what will.

[HunterOfJello]

Collegiate wizard as your first level feat.
Especially if your DM doesn't let you buy access to extra spells before game start. It'll double your spells known, without having to pay for scribing costs.


This can be a good idea in some situations, but I wouldn't do this in your current game. Get all the wizards in your party a Boccob's Blessed Book, then copy down any spells you buy or a different person learns from one book into the others. When you have each wizard in an all wizard party learning 2 new spells per level and also buying scrolls, the number of new spells you'll get per level will really stack up.

You should also be grabbing every possible metamagic feat you can think of so that you can be assisting others or altering their spells after the fact. You're the metamagic specialist, so you gotta step up.

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I would like to suggest that you (or a different wizard in your party) DEFINITELY get the Spontaneous Divination ACF. This way someone can be able to bust out any useful divination spells that the party may need at any given time without actually having to prepare them at all.

It would probably be best for someone else in your party to get this so that you can assist with cooperative metamagic if necessary.

This ACF can be found in Complete Champion and replaces your 5th level wizard bonus feat.

~~~~~~

Were you going to play a specialist or focused specialist wizard? Bonus spells per day can really help you in the short and long run even when you give up 3 spell schools. It would be handy for you to build your character at least partially alongside the other wizards so that you can cover eachothers weaknesses or not bother to double down too heavily on some things. Not everyone needs to be able to cast Fireball.


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Here are some other useful resources:

Alternate Class Features (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=9prmtgut0cka2qjc57dd16a203&topic=7908) giant list
The Metamagic Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207382)
Metamagic and You: A Thesis (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9876)

[ryu]

Although nobody should ban conjuration or transmutation as those schools have some of the most generally useful spells. Not everyone needs to be an expert at it, but I'd never want to be truly forbidden from either.

[Endarire]

Why do you want each of the classes you do? What are your primary roles?

Snuggle up with Treantmonk (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards%3A_Being_a_God&post_num=1).

And Batman (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2716.0).

Based on my own experience, Incantatrix is quite powerful. It meant persisted buffs for the entire party starting at level 8 or 9. You'll also need to balance the number of spell slots you spend on buffs and long-term effects with 'spiky effectiveness,' or spells you cast right now to win the fight. (Specifically, these are crowd controls, summons, debuffs, and damage spells.)

In my own experience, spell slots are still limited. A large number of spell slots still is not infinite. You may still run out of spells, or run out of spells you need There's no guarantee your party/GM will let you have what you want when you want, especially when it comes to planar binding and permanent minions.

Crafting-wise, how much stuff do you need? Is it worth spending a feat (a precious resource) for the ability to further spend GP/XP to make items at a discount?

Time-wise, I can't tell you straight out how much time your party should spend adventuring. The plot is more a dictator of that. If you really want to craft something or research something (like spells), talk with your GM and see wuzzup. If he's OK with it, go for it. If not, eh.

Ultimately, talk with your GM and fellow players to determine what the group is trying to do, what is allowed, and what makes things fun. No sense in going a direction only to be told 'no' too late to change it.

[Lactantius]

1: You cannot switch to Io7V before level 10. So, you must take Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 4, for example.

2: Archmage is very strong. Check spell-like abilities. Effectively, trade in 1 5th and 1 9th level slot for 2x time stop/day. Or 5th + 7th for 2x greater teleport.
Just...good.
The other High Arcanas an be very good too - circumstancial.

[ryu]

Oh not saying it's not good. Just is it anywhere near what incantrix is?

[Story]

2: Archmage is very strong. Check spell-like abilities. Effectively, trade in 1 5th and 1 9th level slot for 2x time stop/day. Or 5th + 7th for 2x greater teleport.
Just...good.
The other High Arcanas an be very good too - circumstancial.

Being able to cast an extra Time Stop per day is a lot less impressive when compared to stuff like Anima Mage which gives you a free slot you can do anything with, plus free metamagic, initiative, and various passive abilities. Sure it requires you to lose a level, but it's still very powerful.

If you want to transform spells into abilities, Dweomercheater does it far better (free Wishes anyone?). Archmage has the advantage of being a lot more likely to be available in a real game, but that doesn't seem to be an issue here.

Archmage is good for core only, but it got left behind by powercreep long ago.