Godly Strength - Sources of Strength in d&d?

[Gwazi Magnum]

My first ever experience of optimizing a character in D&D was very simple, I just ramped up Strength as high as possible.

He ended the campaign around 30 something. Now if I went back today I could probably make a character far stronger. But I'm curious as to what you guys also know and would suggest as for how to add more strength to a character?

Only restrictions I'm setting is

1. If suggesting a race, try to keep the race to LA 0
2. No cheese

[Chronos]

The first thing to do when trying to maximize anything is to look for a bunch of different bonus types that apply to it, and then find the biggest thing you can for each of those bonus types. Two different buffs of the same bonus type won't stack, but different types will. If you can find untyped bonuses, those are even better, since they stack with everything except multiple copies of themselves.

Now, for strength, the following bonus types are known to exist:
Racial
Inherent
Enhancement
Size
Competence
Alchemical

There might be a few more: I might be overlooking an Insight, Morale, Luck, Sacred, Divine, or Perfection bonus somewhere or another.

Racial bonuses can in principle be very large, but of course, the strongest creatures tend to be high in LA, and thus difficult for a PC to gain access to. The largest bonus you'll get for a +1 LA would be the Half-Ogre and Half-Minotaur templates stacked on an Orc base, for a racial bonus of +20. More is possible, of course, if you're willing to have more LA.

Inherent bonuses are easy: They can come from Wishes, Tomes, or various other sources, but they always cap at +5.

Enhancement is the most common sort of bonus, being what you'd get from a Bull's Strength spell, or from Gauntlets of Ogre Power or a Belt of Giant Strength. But remember, we're only interested in the biggest bonus of each bonus type. That would either be from the Bite of the Werebear spell, for +16, or the granted power of the cleric's Strength domain, for up to +20. But the cleric power only works for one round a day, so let's say +16.

The easiest way to get a size bonus is from the spell Enlarge Person. But that's only a +2; we can get a +32 from the Wu Jen spell Giant Size.

For competence bonuses to ability scores, the only source I know if is the Chameleon class, which can get up to +6. But that requires that you be human, which interferes with racial bonuses, and also requires a bunch of class levels. So we'll skip that.

And there are a few drugs that give alchemical bonuses to ability scores; I think the highest you can get from those is +2.

So far, we're at +75, so if you started with an 18 on your roll or point-buy, that gets you to 93. But we're not done yet, since there are still some untyped bonuses.

A barbarian can get somewhere between +4 and +8 from raging, depending on level. I'm pretty sure that there are some prestige classes that increase that further, but let's assume that we only have room for one level, and call it +4.

Most notably, the War Hulk prestige class gets +2 Str every level, with a 10-level progression. Another +20.

And every four levels, you can increase any ability score by 1, so that's another +5.

So that puts us at 122. It can go higher yet than that: There are some tricks I'm leaving off. But that should give you the idea.

[Hamste]

Warhulk (8)+bear warrior (5)+Barbarian(7) for massive strength then add items of extra strength, max starting strength, a racial bonus to strength, every level up and polymorph any object (though that might be cheesy)

[Medic!]

Bloodlines can grant an extra point of strength.

The Primeval PrC from Frostburn can net some large strength bonuses.

The Pain Mastery feat from Savage Species can potentially lead to some huge strength increases.

Any of several templates, if they don't violate the LA 0 Race restriction.

The Strength Domain granted ability can give a short burst of strength.

While not an LA 0 race, one that does bear mentioning is the Redcap from MM3. For every additional HD the creature gains, it gains +1 Str, Dex, and Con, along with DR and Natural Armor. Find a way to qualify a Redcap (small) for Warhulk and you've got some scary business on your hands.

[Metahuman1]

What the above said, but get Iron Golem construct Graphs on all limbs (You'll need a trick to get around the will save or get screw thing though. I recommend pumping concentration checks and getting Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver form Tome of Battle, or just getting Iron Heart Surge maneuver form the same book. ) and an Item of Giant Size. Also, drop one level of Barbarian and add a level of Frenzied Berserker.

[Deadline]

It might be worth noting the bog-standard baseline. Let's take a level 20 human with a base 18+5(levels)+5(inherent from a Manual)+6(stat boosting item) = 34. Recommendations lower than that are probably not what you are looking for, yes?

[Hamste]

Don't forget Festering Anger 1d3 con damage a day but every day you get a cumulative +2 enhancement bonus to strength.

[Aasimar]

How in the world do the strength bonuses for being an orc, for being a half-ogre and for being a half-minotaur stack?

I mean, aren't they all racial bonuses?

I get that it's not spelled out like this, but no GM should allow this kind of crazy cheese at LA 1.

[mabriss lethe]

because the Half Ogre/ Half Minotaur in question are Templates, not a race.

[Deadline]

How in the world do the strength bonuses for being an orc, for being a half-ogre and for being a half-minotaur stack?

I mean, aren't they all racial bonuses?

I get that it's not spelled out like this, but no GM should allow this kind of crazy cheese at LA 1.

It's Template Stacking 101, all those bonuses do stack (a half dragon half-orc has a +10 to str, not a +8). You can get some really impressive stats doing this, but they are usually less useful than the class features you could be getting instead of the LA. If LA buyoff is in play, this is less of an issue.

[mabriss lethe]

Also: Animal Devotion gives you a Sacred or Profane Bonus to Strength that scales with your character level (up to +8 at 18) That's a nice little boost to a Cleric going into Warhulk, since you can swap out a domain if you're feat starved and power extra uses of it with Turn Undead.

[Vedhin]

So that puts us at 122. It can go higher yet than that: There are some tricks I'm leaving off. But that should give you the idea.

Dont forget two Arms of Nyr from Defenders of the Faith for +2 Str each. Clockwork Armor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a) is +4 circumstance to Str. Get a Warforged to play a Horn of Triumph from Song and Silence for a +2 morale bonus to Str. Silthilar Muscles get another +2. War Paint of Primal Rage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030627a) is a +4. Get a Clawed Arm graft for +4 when using that arm. If you get your inherent bonus from Wish (cheaper than the Manual), have the caster use some Horns of Gorgons from Complete Champion, which are another +2 each, though the rules are hazy; potentially another +10 from the Horns alone.

[Aasimar]

because the Half Ogre/ Half Minotaur in question are Templates, not a race.

It still seems like the racial templates should be giving a racial bonus to the stats.

I know it isn't, I'm just asking why this isn't a more common houserule.

It seems deadly obvious that stacking them like this is neither conductive to a good game nor how the rules were intended.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It still seems like the racial templates should be giving a racial bonus to the stats.

I know it isn't, I'm just asking why this isn't a more common houserule.

It seems deadly obvious that stacking them like this is neither conductive to a good game nor how the rules were intended.
Usually template stacking isn't a big deal, due to the sheer amount of LA you accumulate.

@Gwazi Magnum: google some Hulking Hurler builds-- the entire point of the exercise is to pump your strength to the utter maximum.

[dspeyer]

If you're willing to wait a little, you're better off polymorphing/wildshaping/shapechanging into a strong creature than being one from the beginning. Titan's a good level 20 shapechange choice, for +32 racial strength.

[TuggyNE]

It still seems like the racial templates should be giving a racial bonus to the stats.

I know it isn't, I'm just asking why this isn't a more common houserule.

It seems deadly obvious that stacking them like this is neither conductive to a good game nor how the rules were intended.

Most templates are intended primarily for monsters, and nearly all monsters have significant racial ability modifiers. If those didn't stack, you'd have really weird situations in at least 50% of template applications. So no, there are excellent reasons to believe this stacking was fully intentional, and (in general) even conducive to a good game.

Any practical problems are generally a result of poorly-assigned LA, sometimes because LA is difficult to calculate reasonably, and sometimes because of human error in design.

[JanusJones]

I have a build I've been playing with on this note:

The Strongest:

The basic idea here is simple: be strong without increasing size or becoming a caster. A real barbarian build - simple, focused on Strength, but viable till high levels.

I use the Wild template from Dragon #306, Water Orcs from Unearthed Arcana, and the Proto-Creature template (+0 LA!) from Bestiary of Krynn for a total of +10 Strength on a medium sized orc.

The next bit is Primal Rager, a PrC from Dragon #295. Their trick is that they can sacrifice one round of rage duration to gain another +1 to Strength and Con. Add in Extended Rage from Complete Warrior and you offset this nicely, to create a character who receives +1 BaB/level alongside +1 Str/Con during rage. Add a dash of Power Attack and, if you can afford the feats through flaws, Steadfast Determination to solidify the build's Will save, and you've got a serious tank who can plow all the way through 20 without too much trouble.

RACE: Proto-Creature Wild Water Orc

The best part? Green skin and hair. The HULK, baby. “Don’t make me angry … you wouldn’t LIKE me when I’m angry …”

Lion Totem Barbarian 6/Primal Rager 1/Barbarian 11

Str: 65 (+27) = 18 (base) +10 (race) + 4 (feats) + 8 (rage) + 5 (levels) + 20 (primal)
Con: 52 (+21) = 16 (base) + 4 (race) + 4 (feats) + 8 (rage) + 20 (primal)

Keep in mind, these values don't include equipment. Throw on another +5 for a Tome and a +6 enhancement item, and you're looking at a 76 Strength (+33) and a 62 Constitution (+26).

FEATS:

Reckless Rage (1st)
Khyber’s Fury (flaw),
Extended Rage (flaw),
Iron Will (3rd),
Endurance (6th),
Steadfast Determination (9th),
Extended Rage (12th),
Extended Rage (15th),
Extended Rage (18th)


Of course, Khyber's Fury (from a Dragon Mag - not sure which, off-hand) could be swapped out to avoid being evil, and would open up Power Attack, which would dramatically improve damage. If the goal isn't PURE Strength, but functionality, drop the first two feats and add Power Attack and another Extended Rage.

Another possibility, if you don't mind losing the Lion Totem from Complete Champion (give up POUNCE - are you MAD?!), would be to be Bear Totem from Unearthed Arcana. Improved Grapple and +2 to rounds to rage duration is nice.

Again, a simple, streamlined build, that allows you to be heroic (there's something awesome about a tiny hero smiting the ever-loving CRAP out of a dragon).

[Gwazi Magnum]

Thanks everyone for all the advice.

This is all looking to help make a very powerful melee character.

Though I am wondering where I can find details on the mentioned feat Khyber's Fury since I wasn't able to find it anywhere.

[Vaz]

Define cheese.

Neraph Wu Jen 5/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 5

Extended Persistent Greater Consumptive Field. You can use your SLA to create BoB clones (who can continue to do the same as well), but also use their Miracle and Wish SLA's to summon 9hp or less monsters into the GCF who die.

Assuming that each round, we'll be kind, and only have a single such creature, over the course of a single day (leaving 24 hours for adventuring with the elevated strength) that is still +28800.

Other strength bonuses are piddling and not required after that, but if you PAO/Reserves of Strength Polymorph into a Pit Fiend, that is 37. Giant Size +32. Bite of the Werebear +32. Animal Devotion +8. Item +6, tome +5. For ease, we shall say we have a Strngth of 30K.

That means as a light load it can carry a Jumbo Jet on take off weight. For its upper, as a heavy load it can carry a small sized fishing trawler.

Of course, you can get higher as a Cancer Mage with Festering Anger.

[Ravens_cry]

Don't forget Festering Anger 1d3 con damage a day but every day you get a cumulative +2 enhancement bonus to strength.
And with (I think) a single level of Cancer Mage, you don't even have to worry about that draw back.

[JanusJones]

Thanks everyone for all the advice.

This is all looking to help make a very powerful melee character.

Though I am wondering where I can find details on the mentioned feat Khyber's Fury since I wasn't able to find it anywhere.

Dragon #332.

[Chronos]

Another trick nobody's mentioned yet is the artificer infusion "Item Alteration", which lets you change the bonus type of the bonus an item gives. Can't find a source of a luck bonus to strength? Put on another item of +6 enhancement to Str, and turn it into a luck bonus. Heck, get a dodge bonus to Str and a resistance bonus to Str, too.

[Vedhin]

Another trick nobody's mentioned yet is the artificer infusion "Item Alteration", which lets you change the bonus type of the bonus an item gives. Can't find a source of a luck bonus to strength? Put on another item of +6 enhancement to Str, and turn it into a luck bonus. Heck, get a dodge bonus to Str and a resistance bonus to Str, too.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure that is almost universally regarded as extremely cheesy. The OP said no cheese.

[EyethatBinds]

My favored super strong character is a shifter ranger 2, barbarian 13, weretouched master 5. Slapping a 16 into strength and choosing the razorclaw shifter trait, the improved boost from greater rage, and shifting into a werebear will net you a +24 to strength (total now 40) without magic. Slap on a belt of giant's strength +6 and put your 5 ability score increases from levels and five well worded wishes and you've now got a 56 strength.

It's not the highest posited on this board, but you can do it without taking any level adjustments, without delving into too many source books, and you can make a character that doesn't take five minutes to explain how the hell he learned all his nine different classes.

There might be ways to improve this build, but really doesn't seem too necessary.