So I am a little worried ...

[Girl Wonder]

This has been building with me for at least a year or more now, and it's only intensified in the last few weeks ...

I'm worried that none of the villain teams pose a credible threat to the Order.

Oh sure, Tarquin has his empire(s), and Xykon is an epic-level sorceror-lich with a near-epic goblin cleric partner who is the high priest of his god, but ...

Redcloak is trying to 'play' Xykon, and it's pretty clear that if Redcloak's actual plot is revealed, there will be an epic falling out, likely when they most need to band together against the forces of good. And, it's been pretty heavily foreshadowed that the ultra-powerful (if rather unfocused) MitD is going to stand up for itself at some point and not toe the line for them (again, likely at a climactic point where it's most needed).

Tarquin's lost Malack for good, AND he's shown a propensity to help the Order, at least for now. And even he may have a problem handling them all should he turn against them. And why would he? He's pretty clearly happy with his current situation and doesn't seem likely to swoop in with what's left of his old team and conquer everything, at least not in a way that would feel (to me) narratatively satisfying. Sure, he's fun to watch and a great schemer, but he strikes me as a strictly regional 'threat' and not someone inclined to be diametrically opposed to the Order, anyway.

I'd been holding out that the Linear Guild (with some help from the directors) would, as the Order's own particular longtime foes would come in under the radar and finally threaten them for real in the series' climax, but now the LG is scattered, leaderless, wizardless ... they never were much, but now they're practically nothing.

AND Sabine now has reason to go after Tarquin quite literally with a vengeance ... one more thing that will hinder Tarquin if he is going to oppose the order at some point.

And Durkon's been up-powered and is helping the Order, Belkar is slowly become more effective as a party member, Elan's no longer a walking joke, and Roy, Haley, and V have (presumably) been steadily leveling up the whole time.

In short, the hero team is stepping closer and closer to being Heroes of the Age ... and ... the villains are so flawed and marred by infighting (either extant or incipient), that I can't see how they'll ever get their act together to pose a credible threat.

Heck, even the Snarl might not be real ... or, has abandoned wholesale nihilism for a hobby in world-knitting and thus, may not be the threat it was billed as.

I love the storytelling of this comic, so I'm hoping to be surprised, but I can't help shaking the feeling that we're building toward an anticlimax. :smallfrown:

[Kornaki]

The IFCC is literally planning to marshal the infinite hordes of all the damned planes in a neverending war against all that is good and pure. I'm pretty sure they can muster up a few more pawns.

Xykon and Redcloak each on their own are a credible villain for the Order, teaming up is just overkill. They need to split just for the Order to have a reasonable chance.

If there was going to be a lack of villains for the end of the story then we wouldn't have seen so many die - the fact that the clutter needs to be cleared should be a good indication that you're underselling who we have left

[Tris]

I trust that Rich will create a satisfying climax and ending, and as TPAM said, there is still the IFCC to deal with.

[Demolator]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Not even an hour ago in OotS time, Redcloak summoned up ol' Sandy which did quite a number on the order. He also knows implosion, so he could definitely put up a fight. True, they finally outgrew the LG, so it shows that they're making progress, but the protagonists should probably be growing throughout the story anyway, right? Xykon put up a good fight against an insanely powerful Darth V and still won, too. We don't even know the extent of the MitD's power, so needless to say, Team Evil is a VERY credible threat.

The IFCC is pretty powerful as well, and Tarquin has enough experience to handle himself (as well as more teammates, the psion showed up anyway and she could probably just read their enemies' every move). Even if he's helping them now, after Team Evil's dealt with (at least in Tarquin's opinion) the Order would probably want to deal with his empire anyway (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0889.html), and also poses a credible threat to most of the order, especially with his adventuring party.

As for an anticlimax, we're probably getting nothing of the sort anytime soon. I don't know what The Giant is up to, but he's delivered a great enough story so that if he was going for an anticlimax, it would be the best anticlimax in the history of ever.

[Girl Wonder]

But it won't really matter how powerful they are if they all end up turning on one another (in classic villain style), which has certainly been telegraphed in a couple of cases.

Sure Xykon is powerful, but will he be able to handle the Order (who's beaten him once before, way back when) once he and Redcloak have a falling out and he has to handle them both? Will Redcloak be able to handle a Xykon angry at having been played for a tool at the same time as the Order? Will either of them be able to do so when the MitD decides he'd rather help his friend Mr. Stiffly than either of them?

As for the directors finding more pawns, I'm sure they can do it, but good villains take time to develop, time that's running short, and we just lost a lot of longer-term bad guys. Just as Tarquin+"Laurin"+3 other as-yet-unnamed cohorts would feel a bit unsatisfying as a final boss, so would some new pawns conjured up the directors. And, as literally faceless villains, they themselves wouldn't make a particularly satisfying 'final encounter', either, I don't think.

I guess on further reflection, the only true 'final boss' that would be narratively satisfying to me would be a last encounter with Team Evil, and they seemed primed to self-destruct right at the climax of things, so in a weird way, it feels like the triumph of the Order is inevitable.

OK, yes, I -know- it's inevitable... it's a comedic (albeit epic) plotline and they're the protagonists, but it's starting to feel more than inevitable, it's feeling a bit predictable, and that bothers me. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what develops ... I've been surprised before, it may well happen again.

[Tris]

But it won't really matter how powerful they are if they all end up turning on one another (in classic villain style), which has certainly been telegraphed in a couple of cases.

Sure Xykon is powerful, but will he be able to handle the Order (who's beaten him once before, way back when) once he and Redcloak have a falling out and he has to handle them both? Will Redcloak be able to handle a Xykon angry at having been played for a tool at the same time as the Order? Will either of them be able to do so when the MitD decides he'd rather help his friend Mr. Stiffly than either of them?

As for the directors finding more pawns, I'm sure they can do it, but good villains take time to develop, time that's running short, and we just lost a lot of longer-term bad guys. Just as Tarquin+"Laurin"+3 other as-yet-unnamed cohorts would feel a bit unsatisfying as a final boss, so would some new pawns conjured up the directors. And, as literally faceless villains, they themselves wouldn't make a particularly satisfying 'final encounter', either, I don't think.

I guess on further reflection, the only true 'final boss' that would be narratively satisfying to me would be a last encounter with Team Evil, and they seemed primed to self-destruct right at the climax of things, so in a weird way, it feels like the triumph of the Order is inevitable.

OK, yes, I -know- it's inevitable... it's a comedic (albeit epic) plotline and they're the protagonists, but it's starting to feel more than inevitable, it's feeling a bit predictable, and that bothers me. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what develops ... I've been surprised before, it may well happen again.

You're calling it predictable? I don't know about you, but I have only vague ideas about how the ending is going to play out.

[ti'esar]

The villains - especially Team Evil - self-destructing with minimal effort from the Order isn't entirely out of the question, actually. After all, the only named villains whose deaths they've been responsible for during this book (assuming Thog is alive, which I actually doubt) were the kobold-of-the-week and a relative nonentity whose killer is probably on the "anti" side of heroic anyway.

But even if this is true, I think it's a bit ridiculous to judge its quality or say you know exactly how it's going to play out until it actually happens.

[Thrillhouse]

All of what you've said basically suggests to me that the IFCC will be the big villains in the final climax.

I mean, come on, it's a story, not real life. He's not just going to make the ending suck.

[rs2excelsior]

Echoing Thrillhouse, I can really see the Order overwhelming Team Evil (with a reasonable amount of difficulty), only for the IFCC to show up with a "guess what, we're the REAL enemy" and the Order is in for an even tougher fight.

[Gift Jeraff]

Vampire Durkon will be the end boss.

[Demolator]

As much as pretty much everything that's been said here sounds entirely plausible, from a narrative standpoint (I hope I'm using that word correctly), since the beginning, Xykon and Redcloak (and I guess MitD) have been the primary antagonists. Why should they have to take a back seat to any of the secondary baddies? Everything's geared up for a final showdown with them. It started that way, and by the looks of it, it'll finish that way too. They've thrown too much into their plan and into the story for it to be otherwise.

Or, y'know, the Snarl happens or something. :smalltongue:

[JSSheridan]

Tarquin's trying to help the order just because it will benefit him.

If they accept a teleport/wormhole/ect., then Tarquin will know where the last Gate is.

Plus, I'm predicting Durkon will make a face/heel and join up with either Xykon or Tarquin.

Tarquin: Join me! And your journey to the Dark Side will be complete.

[The Oni]

But whoever defeats Durkula will be cursed. What a horrible night to have a curse.

[genderlich]

I have the feeling, from a storytelling perspective, that Tarquin needs to die during either this book or the next, and I don't think the Order will be the ones to do it. I'm betting the IFCC will, actually. They're all about sewing conflict, and what better way to do that than by taking out the secret leader of a huge empire? I know people love him, but he was only introduced this book and doesn't have any grand scheme for world domination that needs to be stopped immediately, so he's even more of a B-lister than Nale was. To have the Order deal with the last gate, Team Evil, and the IFCC only to have to come back to clean up Tarquin as a loose end would really be an anticlimax.

[factotum]

You'd probably better *hope* Redcloak turns on Xykon. Redcloak + Order vs. Xykon would probably be a fairly even fight. Redcloak + Xykon vs. Order is a total kerbstomp, even with Durkula's Mass Death Ward.

[Demolator]

You'd probably better *hope* Redcloak turns on Xykon. Redcloak + Order vs. Xykon would probably be a fairly even fight. Redcloak + Xykon vs. Order is a total kerbstomp, even with Durkula's Mass Death Ward.

If Redcloak turned on Xykon, what are the chances he'd actually work with the Order to stop him? I doubt the Order would even consider it, especially since he just summoned a big sand monster to kill them.