question on negative levels

[relytdan]

if a creature has immunities to ability damage & ability drain, energy drain and mind-affecting effects

would anything that bestows negative levels work against it?

[TuggyNE]

if a creature has immunities to ability damage & ability drain, energy drain and mind-affecting effects

would anything that bestows negative levels work against it?

Yes. Undead, for example, have no special immunity to the negative levels caused by holding holy weapons, which are not energy drain, are not caused by negative energy, allow no Fort save, are not ability damage or drain, and are not mind-affecting.

[relytdan]

actually what I am looking for is a way to cause the negative level loss to said creature with the immunities - and looking for a way to do it, they obviously will not hold a weapon that does it, It needs to be caused in some form.

[herrhauptmann]

As far as I know, there is nothing that will do what you want.

There will be other ways to debuff your enemies, even the undead ones. What kind of character are you making? Arcane caster? Divine? Beatstick?

[TuggyNE]

actually what I am looking for is a way to cause the negative level loss to said creature with the immunities - and looking for a way to do it, they obviously will not hold a weapon that does it, It needs to be caused in some form.

I suggest looking for some way to deliver positive levels instead, at least if you want to target undead.

[relytdan]

actually an upcoming campaign that I will be in it has been hinted that the group will need to kill Tiamat - the 5 headed dragon - immune to a lot- just rying to find ways around that huge AC, DR and Immunities.

[herrhauptmann]

actually an upcoming campaign that I will be in it has been hinted that the group will need to kill Tiamat - the 5 headed dragon - immune to a lot- just rying to find ways around that huge AC, DR and Immunities.

Hmm, what rank deity is she going to be in this world? Minor like in Faerun? Or Greater like in Dragonlance?
Before you even bother killing her, you'll have to find a way around her Salient Divine Abilities.
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm
e.g.
Things like battlesense make it impossible to for a rogue to do his thing. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#battlesense

[Gemini476]

Hmm, what rank deity is she going to be in this world? Minor like in Faerun? Or Greater like in Dragonlance?
Before you even bother killing her, you'll have to find a way around her Salient Divine Abilities.
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm
e.g.
Things like battlesense make it impossible to for a rogue to do his thing. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#battlesense

It might be an avatar of Tiamat rather than the real thing, depending on how strong his PCs are.

[herrhauptmann]

It might be an avatar of Tiamat rather than the real thing, depending on how strong his PCs are.

True, there's one of those that's like a CR 15 or so, isn't it?
Don't bunch up when you fight it, treat it like a hydra with multiple breath weapons and no regeneration. And you'll be fine.

[Big Fau]

I suggest looking for some way to deliver positive levels instead, at least if you want to target undead.

1: Nothing with that ability exists, it's inclusion in MM3 was an editing mistake.
2: It doesn't work that well against undead anyway (RAW).

[The Viscount]

This is probably a stupid question, but why wouldn't something like enervation work?
Also I guess a DN's enervating touch, but that's not exactly easy to get.

[TuggyNE]

1: Nothing with that ability exists, it's inclusion in MM3 was an editing mistake.

Hmm, I couldn't remember if there were any examples.

Still, it's probably easier to research a custom "delivers positive levels" spell than it is to research a custom "delivers negative levels that totally aren't from negative energy what are you talking about".


2: It doesn't work that well against undead anyway (RAW).

Huh? The only problem it has is that it can't insta-kill (due to poor wording); it still penalizes, still has a chance of producing permanent level loss, etc.


This is probably a stupid question, but why wouldn't something like enervation work?

Enervation only works on living creatures. There might be some other reason as well, but that's sufficient.

[The Viscount]

Enervation only works on living creatures. There might be some other reason as well, but that's sufficient.

I mentioned enervation because OP mentioned fighting Tiamat or an avatar thereof, which is living. I know enervation has a special clause about undead, but what about constructs?

[Karoht]

Enervation is negative energy isn't it? Pretty sure it is.


Pathfindersrd.com
You point your finger and fire a black ray of negative energy that suppresses the life force of any living creature it strikes. You must make a ranged touch attack to hit. If you hit, the subject gains 1d4 temporary negative levels (see Special Abilities). Negative levels stack.

Assuming the subject survives, it regains lost levels after a number of hours equal to your caster level (maximum 15 hours). Usually, negative levels have a chance of becoming permanent, but the negative levels from enervation don't last long enough to do so.

An undead creature struck by the ray gains 1d4 x 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour.So Death Ward stops Enervation. Undead don't seem to mind Enervation at all.

[relytdan]

ok so lets have the master craftsman create the following weapon -
bastard sword =35
Master Worked = 300
< +1 magic weapon > =2,000
Use-activated: cast < Enervation + EMPOWER SPELL [METAMAGIC] + MAXIMIZE SPELL [METAMAGIC] > =324,000
subject hit takes 6 negative levels
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: ??
[total weapon cost should be =326,335 GP]

the spell Evervation offers Spell resistance - but this is now on a weapon that is physically hitting - would it and should it still offer spell resistance ?

[Yuki Akuma]

the spell Evervation offers Spell resistance - but this is now on a weapon that is physically hitting - would it and should it still offer spell resistance ?

Yes! It's still a spell! Why shouldn't it?

[TuggyNE]

subject hit takes 6 negative levels

Actually, it would be 4+(1d4/2) negative levels. Sometimes 4, often 5, sometimes 6.


[total weapon cost should be =326,335 GP]

Because this is mimicking a level 10 effective spell, and is thus epic, multiply the cost by 10.


the spell Evervation offers Spell resistance - but this is now on a weapon that is physically hitting - would it and should it still offer spell resistance ?

Yes. It's casting the spell just the same as if it were from a wand or staff.