Armor Spikes (3.5)

[Adept_Scholar]

I am somewhat puzzled concerning the application of armor spikes as stated in the 3.5 P.H. (p. 124). Do the spikes not automatically hit the grappled target upon a successful grapple? It seems logical that it would be automatic damage upon grapple completion ("Step 3: Hold"); however, the text states: "If you are not proficient with them, you take a -4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them." How does one use a spike which is attached to armor...? Via grapple "positioning"...? :smallconfused:

[Nettlekid]

Basically, I would think, if you intend to use the armor spikes to damage your foe while you're grappling them, and you aren't proficient, you take the -4 on your grapple check. I guess if you ignore the armor spikes and so grapple with no intent to damage them, you ignore the penalty? Or maybe as long as they're there, you'll always damage on successful grapples and always take the -4.

[Galvin]

If you try to attack with armor spikes, you suffer a grapple penalty that round. I think that you would make a touch attack, as attacks made with a light weapon while pinning a target in a grapple still take an attack roll to hit.

[holywhippet]

My reading of it suggests you have the option of attacking with the spikes as part of a grapple attack. If you do make the attack, and you aren't proficient, then you get a penalty to your grapple. You can still make a grapple attempt with not penalty if you don't have proficiency and aren't attempting to use the spikes.

[Piggy Knowles]

Armor spikes have two functions:


Dealing extra piercing damage in a grapple, and
acting as a light/off-hand weapon.


You deal extra piercing damage with them on a successful grapple check. However, if you try to do this but you are not proficient with them, you take a penalty to your grapple check.

Basically, unless you're trained to use them, they make grappling more awkward and difficult to maintain.

[holywhippet]

acting as a light/off-hand weapon.


I'm trying to visualise this and all I can imagine is that you chest bump someone.

It is odd that they don't inflict damage as part of a successful bull rush attempt.

[Piggy Knowles]

I've always assumed that they were on the shoulders or upper thighs as well, but now that you've put the picture in my head, I can't see anything else. My next build with armor spikes is ABSOLUTELY going to be chest bumping people.

[Adept_Scholar]

So for further clarification (perhaps :smalltongue:), let's assume a first-level character who is a medium-sized fighter (with the improved grapple feat and two-weapon fighting feat) has a handaxe in their off-hand along with armor spikes and said character grapples an opponent of the same size. Under "Step 3: Hold", it states: "If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as with an unarmed strike." Does the damage from the armor spikes (1d6) hit and then damage from an unarmed strike (1d3)...? What of the handaxe? Would the spikes hit and then the axe at a -4 penalty (or maybe -6 penalty since it is off-hand and grappling...?) rather than the character's fist (which I assume is the quoted "unarmed strike")? Would the spikes have to be used each round the grappling character maintains the grapple rather than being automatic which would not allow the attacking grappling character the opportunity to use the handaxe...? If so, then it seems such a grappling character would either want a light weapon or armor spikes (as in this case, both deal 1d6)...:smallconfused: (This may be a good area for some house-ruling...:smallamused:)