Help with an unarmed wizard build (srd only, no psionics)

[Jon_Dahl]

I'd like to create a single-class wizard, whose feats would be specialized in unarmed combat. He's human wizard 1 with the Shaky flaw.

Keeping in mind that he can rise to the 20th level (and will never multiclass), what would be the best feat choices?

The problem is that the character is smart, and if using dagger +1 is more optimal than using bare hands, he will use the dagger. I should have his feats arranged in a manner that unarmed combat almost always beats fighting with the dagger +1.

His ability scores are 16, 13, 14, 14, 10 and 15 (not yet assigned).

[Gemini476]

You need Superior Unarmed Strike from the TOB to deal damage as a Monk, and- oh wait, SRD?

Unarmed is pretty much awful in core. You'll need Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Natural Attack(Unarmed Strike) at level eight, two weapon fighting...
You'll be a Flurry of Misses, though. I suppose you could TWF dagger+US though.

But yeah, it's not really worth it. Even with INA, the damage is still just 1d4 x2, compared to the daggers 1d4+1 19-20/x2. Without a way to improve US damage without improving dagger damage simultaneously, you are out of luck.

Not to mention that a +1 dagger is comparatively cheaper than an Unarmed Strike, since one of those takes two feats and eight levels for one less damage. Oh, and upgrading the dagger is cheaper, since the Amulet of Mighty Fists is expensive and the other option is not on the SRD.

You're better off not even trying if you are limited to the SRD. Especially since melee wizard isn't that great.

[Telonius]

You probably already know this, but I'd just like to say this is a great idea for a Wizard who wants to die horribly. You're predicating an entire build on the exact situation a spellcaster doesn't want to be in (melee combat) and probably foregoing his biggest strength (spellcasting), without even the benefit of the one prestige class intended to pull something like this off (Enlightened Fist).

1 (standard first) Improved Unarmed Strike
1 (human) Combat Expertise
1 (flaw) Extend Spell
1 (wizard bonus) Scribe Scroll
3 Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
5 Craft Wand (and see if the DM allows you to create partially charged...:smallbiggrin:)
6 Leadership
9 Improved Natural Attack
10 Still Spell
12 Silent Spell
15 Heighten Spell, Quicken Spell
18 Dodge
20 Maximize Spell

At 6th level, attract an Orc (or other high-physical-stats) cohort who has an existing permanency'd Greater Magic Fang. As soon as you reach ninth level, your standard operating procedure is to cast Magic Jar on him and use that body for combat.

[justiceforall]

Try this for low levels at least:

Get a high dex, high constitution. If you are standing in melee, survivability is highest priority.

Take touch spells (chill touch specifically, but also shocking grasp, etc). You can deliver them by punching, and that is where the majority of your damage will come from. This will be why "punching" is always better than a dagger. Chill touch is especially relevant because it holds charge for one attack per level.

You can also magic weapon your fist if it comes to it.

Additional feats for consideration (add to list of previous poster)
Weapon finesse, Weapon focus (touch spells), Weapon Spec (touch spells), Improved Initiative, Blind-fighting (cast darkness on yourself)

[fryplink]

Try this for low levels at least:

Get a high dex, high constitution. If you are standing in melee, survivability is highest priority.

Take touch spells (chill touch specifically, but also shocking grasp, etc). You can deliver them by punching, and that is where the majority of your damage will come from. This will be why "punching" is always better than a dagger. Chill touch is especially relevant because it holds charge for one attack per level.

You can also magic weapon your fist if it comes to it.

Additional feats for consideration (add to list of previous poster)
Weapon finesse, Weapon focus (touch spells), Weapon Spec (touch spells), Improved Initiative, Blind-fighting (cast darkness on yourself)

This, but remember that Vampiric Touch is an option to extend your admittedly limited viability into the early middle levels. It's not *great*, but since you're going to be that close anyway, the Temp HP will give you an extra round of survivability when you need it most.

[Eldariel]

Once you get Polymorph you should be fine. Alter Self does help already. These replace your godawful unarmed routine with a proper set of natural weapons. Then you just need Multiattack and buff spells and you're good to go. Pre-7 you do need a good Strength (preferably Orc with 22) to pull this off tho. Level 1 I can't think a single reason you'd use non-weapon attacks.

[Runestar]

You can try the grapplemancer build. At 1st lv at least, improved grapple and enlarge person are core-only. With 18str, that's a +12 grapple bonus right off the bat. Should allow you to disable at least 1 npc per combat.

You could go sorc for the extra slots.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grapplemancer_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)

As mentioned, at lv3, you can alter self into a lizardfolk for 3 natural attacks/round. Your attack bonus will still suck though.

Once you reach lv7, you can basically polymorph into anything you want.

[Eldariel]

You can try the grapplemancer build. At 1st lv at least, improved grapple and enlarge person are core-only. With 18str, that's a +12 grapple bonus right off the bat. Should allow you to disable at least 1 npc per combat.

You could go sorc for the extra slots.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grapplemancer_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)

As mentioned, at lv3, you can alter self into a lizardfolk for 3 natural attacks/round. Your attack bonus will still suck though.

Once you reach lv7, you can basically polymorph into anything you want.

I'd prefer Troglodyte for higher NA while still having 3 natural attacks as Alter Self form.

[Runestar]

I'd prefer Trogdolyte for higher NA while still having 3 natural attacks as Alter Self form.

And you even get multiattack as a bonus feat.

How could I have missed it in all these years? :smallsigh:

[Urpriest]

Core doesn't have the resources to make a non-Monk unarmed attacker have any meaningful advantages over just using weapons. Plus, if you're restricted to Core only it's because your DM wants to restrict the available concepts, which means your DM will veto the character for not being traditional enough anyway.

[Eldariel]

And you even get multiattack as a bonus feat.

How could I have missed it in all these years? :smallsigh:

My guess is it's 'cause their name is like the hardest ever to get right (I range from Trogdolyte to Trodgolyte and indeed managed to typo it again in my previous post since I keep thinking it's "-lyte", not "-dyte") and their attack chapter is so cluttered it's hard to figure out what they've actually got :smalltongue:

[Jon_Dahl]

All right, some good advice so far...

I'm going to do it like this then:
Int 16
Wis 13
Con 14
Str 14
Cha 10
Dex 15

I'll borrow Telonius's format:
1 (standard first) Improved Unarmed Strike
1 (human) Combat Expertise
1 (flaw) Improved Trip
1 (wizard bonus) Scribe Scroll
3 Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
5 ?
6 Deflect Arrows
9 Dodge
10 ?
12 Mobility
15 Sping Attack
18 Stunning Fist
20 Whirlwind Attack

[satorian]

OK. Out of curiosity... why?!