(Gestalt? Psychic? Arcane?) Weaponmaster Build Help

[Fax Celestis]

For a long time I've wanted to build a 'weaponmaster' type of character, someone who is ridiculously proficient with a singular weapon, but I've never really been able to figure out how to do one without having it be underwhelming.

Some (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300070) recent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300019) threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298882) have rekindled my desire to do this, however.

I don't have an ECL for this (don't even have a game to play it in, honestly), but I'm still looking to throw something together so I can figure it out as I go along.

Things I'd like to try to use somehow:
Psychic Warrior Soulbound Weapon ACF or Mantled Warrior ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) (Magic Mantle here might let me go into Arcane Duelist)
Psychic Weaponmaster (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)
PF Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife)
Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)
Voce Warrior - no source here, but it's OGL and in Hyperconscious

[A_S]

Most of the things you say you want to use look like they don't work together. Like, there's no way to combine your soulbound weapon and your mind blade; there's no way to make either one your chosen weapon for Psychic Weapon Master; you can't take both soulbound weapon and mantled warrior; I don't see any apparent synergy between Arcane Duelist and single weapon focus.

I think it's probably possible to make a character who is "a psionic fighter type who summons his own weapon and is extremely specialized in its use," which I think is what you're going for, but I don't see any good ways to combine the things you list in the OP.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, I could do something like Mantled Psychic Warrior into Arcane Duelist and Voce Warrior.

[A_S]

What are you hoping to get out of Arcane Duelist? Or is it just cool (which, I have to admit, it is)?

[erikun]

Just to make sure I understand, it looks like you want to be a Soulknife who has a ton of different enhancements on the weapon, correct? Because this is all what it looks like you're doing.

Soulknife/Psychic Weapon Master gains the natural magical enhancements and abilities for the Soulknife, while also giving you an additional +10 in abilities, thanks to Psychic Weapon Master.

Magic Mantle Soulbound Psychic Warrior doesn't seem all that great with the build; two levels with Practiced Manifester will allow you to generate a single additional +1 enhancement to your called soulknife, but that seems about it without giving up Soulknife levels. It could work as Gestalt.

Soulbow (Complete Psionic) doesn't give the “+1 level of existing manifesting class” benefit, but it specifically stacks with Soulknife levels for determining bonuses and gives different abilities, for both the Soulbow Mind Arrows and Soulknife Mind Blade. A Soulknife 10/Soulbow 10 could apparently have +4 from Soulknife and +2 from Soulbow, along with the enhancements that Soulbow gives.

There is also the Kensai from Complete Warrior, if you just want to focus on more enhancements and don't care about power progression.



I would think a gestalt Soulknife//Soulbound Psychic Warrior would likely work. Take the Psychic Weapon Master on the PsyWar side and Soulknife on whichever side fits best. Soulknife 11/Soulbow 9//Soulbound Psychic Warrior 10/Psychic Weapon Master 10 looks like it will give you a total of +7 enhancement bonus from Soulknife/Soulbow, +2 abilities from the Soulbow list, a total of +10 abilities from Psychic Weapon Master, and an additional +3 abilities from spending 16 PP to augment the PsyWar's Call Weapon power. (You would need Practiced Manifester to augment that high.)

[Fax Celestis]

Just to make sure I understand, it looks like you want to be a Soulknife who has a ton of different enhancements on the weapon, correct? Because this is all what it looks like you're doing.

Sure? I mostly want to be ridiculously effective with a single weapon and mediocre otherwise.

Two things: can I Ancestral Relic my soulknife? What if it's Maho-Jehe from WoL?

[A_S]

I would think a gestalt Soulknife//Soulbound Psychic Warrior would likely work. Take the Psychic Weapon Master on the PsyWar side and Soulknife on whichever side fits best. Soulknife 11/Soulbow 9//Soulbound Psychic Warrior 10/Psychic Weapon Master 10 looks like it will give you a total of +7 enhancement bonus from Soulknife/Soulbow, +2 abilities from the Soulbow list, a total of +10 abilities from Psychic Weapon Master, and an additional +3 abilities from spending 16 PP to augment the PsyWar's Call Weapon power. (You would need Practiced Manifester to augment that high.)
Am I missing something that would allow these abilities to be combined on a single weapon?

Psychic Weapon Master's weapon must be made of crystal.
Call Weaponry gets you a weapon that's explicitly "made of ordinary materials as appropriate for its kind."
The Soulknife's mind blade is presumably created anew from psychic energy each time it's summoned, so I don't see how it can be either made of crystal for Psychic Weapon Master or a specific called weapon for Soulbound PsyWar.

*edit*
Two things: can I Ancestral Relic my soulknife?
Pretty sure no. Hard to imagine how a blade you know how to create out of the energy of your mind could qualify for "it must be an item that once belonged to a member of your family. Alternatively, the item may have belonged to another person to whom you are somehow connected, such as another member of your religious order."

[Fax Celestis]

Pretty sure no. Hard to imagine how a blade you know how to create out of the energy of your mind could qualify for "it must be an item that once belonged to a member of your family. Alternatively, the item may have belonged to another person to whom you are somehow connected, such as another member of your religious order."

Maybe I'm manifesting the spiritual form of grandpappy's katana.

[A_S]

Maybe I'm manifesting the spiritual form of grandpappy's katana.
But, it's not your grandpappy's katana, it's a brand new weapon that, according to the description of the Mind Blade ability, you "can create...composed of psychic energy distilled from [your] own mind." The fact that you create it means it didn't exist before, and therefore didn't belong to your grandpappy.

It'd be a cool houserule, but it's definitely not allowed by default.

[Fax Celestis]

...but it would work on Mau-Jehe, as it is a specifc weapon?

[A_S]

...but it would work on Mau-Jehe, as it is a specifc weapon?
Yeah, if your grandpappy owned Mau-Jehe, I don't see anything preventing you from designating it as your ancestral relic.

...which is weird. I didn't realize you could make an item that's already magical into an Ancestral Relic. The only thing I see that hints at this not being intended is that "the item must be of masterwork quality," but it doesn't say it can't also be enchanted (and magic items are always of masterwork quality).

This is especially broken on legacy items, since they're undercosted to make up for you having to pay and make sacrifices to unlock their powers.

Yay new cheese.

*edit* Apparently the FAQ (http://www.scribd.com/doc/161222103/3/Prestige-Classes) thinks you shouldn't do this, but probably can:
Q: Can a kensai select a legacy weapon as his signature weapon? Can he select an ancestral relic? What about a legendary weapon or item familiar from Unearthed Arcana?

A: Weapons of Legacy indicates that a legacy weapon’s powers can’t be increased by any “regular process” (see page 11), which strongly suggests that a kensai couldn’t use his signature weapon class feature to improve a legacy weapon.

The Ancestral Relic feat (Book of Exalted Deeds, p. 39) provides an alternative method for improving on a weapon’s powers; as long as the character obeyed both the maximum relic value indicated for the feat and the maximum enhancement bonus for the signature weapon as indicated by the prestige class, it seems that these two methods would be compatible.

The legendary weapons and item familiar variant rules from Unearthed Arcana aren’t designed to work with other systems of enhancing weapons. For these systems (and indeed, for any other alternative method of improving weapons), the DM must use his best judgment to ensure that a character isn’t gaining benefits without paying a reasonable cost (either in gold, XP, or any other resource available—which might include feats or class levels, for example).

[Vortenger]

One question I always had about psi-weap master was if a person could full attack using their whirlwind attack, as its a standard for 'em. Would be marvelous paired with enlarged chain-tripping.

If power is your angle, you could blend psi-weap master with elements of the Psycarnum Warrior. I put together a psywar using soulbound weapon and psycarnum, and having a max-augment weapon (and powers) for free all day was pretty sweet. Houserule in your soulbound weap qualifying (not unreasonable, imo) and psi-weap master becomes pretty solid.

Would transmuting allow for crystal as a material? You might be able to augment your way in RAW...

[A_S]

One question I always had about psi-weap master was if a person could full attack using their whirlwind attack, as its a standard for 'em. Would be marvelous paired with enlarged chain-tripping.
This wouldn't work without a houserule. Just because something takes a standard action doesn't mean you can do it more than once with iteratives. That's only for attack actions (basic attacks, trip attacks, etc.).


Would transmuting allow for crystal as a material? You might be able to augment your way in RAW...
The Transmuting property only changes to overcome damage reduction, and explicitly "does not gain any other benefit of the properties it takes on," so I'd say it doesn't work.

-----

Best thing I've come up with for the build concept so far:

Psychic Warrior 16/Monk 2/Swordsage or Warblade 2

Soulbound Weapon ACF for a quarterstaff.

Feats to include: Tashalatora, Intuitive Attack, Forceful Staff Style, Practiced Manifester, TWF line, Power Attack.

Gets Wisdom to everything (including possibly AC twice if Swordsage works unarmored). Can use Stunning Fist via the quarterstaff, and gets a free bull rush when it works. Can flurry + TWF for lots of attacks, and use Psionic Lion's Charge to guarantee full attacks. Any time you're stuck making a standard action attack, you've got maneuvers (probably Tiger's Claw ones) and you can always just hold the staff two-handed and Power Attack with it to do decent damage.

If you go Warblade instead of Swordsage, then depending on your cheese tolerance, you might be able to use Weapon Aptitude to get whatever style feats you like to apply to your quarterstaff.

[Vortenger]

Thanks. was AFB at work, and you're correct.