Druid Optimization

[chrisgray86]

Hey guys our DM wants us to have a second character in backup just in case that our current character goes down that way we can get back into the game quicker. My idea is a Ghost Elf Druid. He loves the idea so I wanted some help with ideas to make him awesome. We are currently level 5 Going on 6 So at the very least if I die this weekend I will come back at level 4 since its a + 1 class so we shall start from there we have a 42 point buy in system so here were the stats that I was looking at

STR 13
CON 17 -4 13
DEX 14 + 2 16
INT 8 + 2 10
WIS 18
CHA 10

My Racal bonus are Dex +2 Int +2 and Con -4

Im not sure what kind of druid I am going to be I like the Wild Reaper from the dragon magazine. Hit me up let me know what you think of my stats what feats are good weapons etc. thanks guys

[huttj509]

Hey guys our DM wants us to have a second character in backup just in case that our current character goes down that way we can get back into the game quicker. My idea is a Ghost Elf Druid. He loves the idea so I wanted some help with ideas to make him awesome. We are currently level 5 Going on 6 So at the very least if I die this weekend I will come back at level 4 since its a + 1 class so we shall start from there we have a 42 point buy in system so here were the stats that I was looking at

STR 13
CON 17 -4 13
DEX 14 + 2 16
INT 8 + 2 10
WIS 18
CHA 10

My Racal bonus are Dex +2 Int +2 and Con -4

Im not sure what kind of druid I am going to be I like the Wild Reaper from the dragon magazine. Hit me up let me know what you think of my stats what feats are good weapons etc. thanks guys

3.5 or pathfinder?

[SciChronic]

tbh, you want want to optimize the druid too heavily, otherwise you're going to be too strong and you'll ruin the experience for everyone at the table. Druids are that good.

[chrisgray86]

We are playing 3.5

[chrisgray86]

tbh, you want want to optimize the druid too heavily, otherwise you're going to be too strong and you'll ruin the experience for everyone at the table. Druids are that good.

I don't want to break the game I just want some good ideas for feats

[Firechanter]

Screw CON, you can safely tank that stat because it will be replaced by your Wildshape's stat anyway. I wouldn't put more than 14 in it, pre-adjustment, so you come out at 10.

Then at level 6, take Natural Spell, and you're done. As the saying goes, 'You have Natural Spell. You might as well take for the rest of your feats "Skill Focus:Basketweaving" and call it a game.'

Unfortunately, your other Racial mods don't really help you being a Druid, but they don't hurt either, so I guess you'll be a Ghost Elf just for the fluff. You really only need WIS, so unless you pick a race that gives a bonus to that, you're set with 18. Spread your remaining PB points between Int and Cha as you find it funnier. The Druid is probably the SADdest class in the game, it really only needs WIS.

As the saying goes, "Optimizing a Druid is like sticking dynamite to a nuclear bomb; you can do it but where's the point?" -- You are a Druid, you are like three characters rolled into one, and you could probably solo most published adventures. What more do you want?

[chrisgray86]

Screw CON, you can safely tank that stat because it will be replaced by your Wildshape's stat anyway. I wouldn't put more than 14 in it, pre-adjustment, so you come out at 10.

Then at level 6, take Natural Spell, and you're done. As the saying goes, 'You have Natural Spell. You might as well take for the rest of your feats "Skill Focus:Basketweaving" and call it a game.'

Unfortunately, your other Racial mods don't really help you being a Druid, but they don't hurt either, so I guess you'll be a Ghost Elf just for the fluff. You really only need WIS, so unless you pick a race that gives a bonus to that, you're set with 18. Spread your remaining PB points between Int and Cha as you find it funnier. The Druid is probably the SADdest class in the game, it really only needs WIS.

As the saying goes, "Optimizing a Druid is like sticking dynamite to a nuclear bomb; you can do it but where's the point?" -- You are a Druid, you are like three characters rolled into one, and you could probably solo most published adventures. What more do you want?

Not to die I guess I want to make a fun character to enjoy the game with.

[eggynack]

I've always been partial to druids who are heavily into summoning. Y'know, augment summoning, ashbound summoning (ECS, 50), and greenbound summoning (LEoF, 8) or rashemi elemental summoning (UE, 45). You should obviously get natural spell at 6th, because it's amazing. I don't really know much about either ghost elves or wild reaper, because they appear to both be dragon stuff. It looks like ghost elf is +1 LA, which is a bad thing, so there's possibly a better racial option out there for you. In any case, what do you actually want to do? You can do pretty much anything there is if you know what you're doing, so knowing what you want to do is a good idea.

@Firechanter: You are mistaken. Wild shape replaces constitution, but it doesn't change your HP, so boosting con is still incredibly important for that purpose. In general, stat allocation sets wisdom primary, constitution secondary, intelligence tertiary, charisma as a theoretical tertiary on a face build, and strength and dexterity as dump stats.

[chrisgray86]

I've always been partial to druids who are heavily into summoning. Y'know, augment summoning, ashbound summoning (ECS, 50), and greenbound summoning (LEoF, 8) or rashemi elemental summoning (UE, 45). You should obviously get natural spell at 6th, because it's amazing. I don't really know much about either ghost elves or wild reaper, because they appear to both be dragon stuff. It looks like ghost elf is +1 LA, which is a bad thing, so there's possibly a better racial option out there for you. In any case, what do you actually want to do? You can do pretty much anything there is if you know what you're doing, so knowing what you want to do is a good idea.

@Firechanter: You are mistaken. Wild shape replaces constitution, but it doesn't change your HP, so boosting con is still incredibly important for that purpose. In general, stat allocation sets wisdom primary, constitution secondary, intelligence tertiary, charisma as a theoretical tertiary on a face build, and strength and dexterity as dump stats.

DM said he wouldn't worry too much about the +1 level adj he would compensate in xp allotment somehow but I wouldn't be more than one level lower than I was when I died as a penalty for dying

[Talya]

Screw CON, you can safely tank that stat because it will be replaced by your Wildshape's stat anyway. I wouldn't put more than 14 in it, pre-adjustment, so you come out at 10.



Except the primary purpose of CON is not your fort save, which will be high anyway. It's your hit points, which don't change when you wildshape. For a wildshape focused druid, you should almost prioritize CON as high as WIS...they're almost as important.

[Firechanter]

@Firechanter: You are mistaken. Wild shape replaces constitution, but it doesn't change your HP, so boosting con is still incredibly important for that purpose.

Whoa? Amazing, you learn something new every day. I thought your WS Con modified your HP.

(Have to say that personally I don't like WS, and prefer the UA Simple Druid variant.)

[eggynack]

DM said he wouldn't worry too much about the +1 level adj he would compensate in xp allotment somehow but I wouldn't be more than one level lower than I was when I died as a penalty for dying
I guess. There's always buy-off, if you use that, but it just doesn't seem like a good option. Honestly, if I'm looking at the right race here, I probably wouldn't even take it over other LA +0 options. So, what're you trying to do? Does your character have any kinda personality traits that would determine anything about the selection of stuff? Alternatively, does any particular aspect of the class appeal to your mechanical heart? It informs decision making, to some extent. There's always standard druid builds, but those usually have better races.

[eggynack]

Whoa? Amazing, you learn something new every day. I thought your WS Con modified your HP.
Indeed so. Constitution is slightly less important for druids, because constitution has other uses that are replaced in a wild shape, but it's still higher on druids than on most classes, just because they're so frigging SAD.


(Have to say that personally I don't like WS, and prefer the UA Simple Druid variant.)
Eh, it doesn't really seem worth it in general. The tracking abilities are redundant, because animal companions tend to have track natively. The AC bonus can be obtained through a monk's belt, and high dexterity forms boost your AC by quite a bit, so that change actually probably reduces your AC most of the time. Fast movement rarely gets you faster than a wild shape form, and the wild shape form often gets you flight. Finally, you have favored enemy, which is favored enemy, so it doesn't matter much. So, most of the things you get are either things you already have, or things you'd be getting through wild shape, and wild shape gets you other things besides.

[chrisgray86]

I guess. There's always buy-off, if you use that, but it just doesn't seem like a good option. Honestly, if I'm looking at the right race here, I probably wouldn't even take it over other LA +0 options. So, what're you trying to do? Does your character have any kinda personality traits that would determine anything about the selection of stuff? Alternatively, does any particular aspect of the class appeal to your mechanical heart? It informs decision making, to some extent. There's always standard druid builds, but those usually have better races.

Wanted to do something different. Always do human or elf or dwarf wanted to try something off the wall. He is going to spin some sort of plain travel as my ghost elf druid came through some tears in reality that I was going to try and help fix

[Firechanter]

Finally, you have favored enemy, which is favored enemy, so it doesn't matter much.

:smallbiggrin: I just love statements like this.
Yah, I know Simple Druid is generally weaker than Standard, I just don't like the idea of running around Shifted all the time. Generally I say you could rip WS out of the Druid with no compensation and it would still be T1, and you could make an own class just with WS (the full monty, not the gimped version a WS Ranger gets) and it would probably be T3 all by itself. So giving up WS is basically a concession to game balance.

[eggynack]

Wanted to do something different. Always do human or elf or dwarf wanted to try something off the wall. He is going to spin some sort of plain travel as my ghost elf druid came through some tears in reality that I was going to try and help fix
So, just weirdish stuff? Ghostwise halflings from Forgotten Realms: Campaign Setting are pretty cool if you enjoy races with ghost in their name, and they get telepathic communication which is great on a druid. Shifters from Races of Eberron are great as well, if you desire a druid that's as different from a standard druid as you can get. Between shifter substitution levels, which are some of the best ones druids get, moonspeaker, which is one of the only PrC's I'd consider taking, and shifter feats, which are kinda neat, shifters can do some cool things. Druids are also one of the only classes there is that can make half-orc worth it, because the substitution levels in Races of Destiny are just that good. Desert half-orcs in particular are the ones you'd want.

[eggynack]

:smallbiggrin: I just love statements like this.
Yah, I know Simple Druid is generally weaker than Standard, I just don't like the idea of running around Shifted all the time. Generally I say you could rip WS out of the Druid with no compensation and it would still be T1, and you could make an own class just with WS (the full monty, not the gimped version a WS Ranger gets) and it would probably be T3 all by itself. So giving up WS is basically a concession to game balance.
Yeah, I can see the appeal behind a general druid gimping. You could actually take away every non-casting class feature, and you'd still have a tier one, because druids are cool like that. Wild shape rangers are tier three on an entirely separate basis, so that puts wild shape on that level all on its own. Druids are kinda crazy like that.

Edit: Either way, it's less of a, "Here's a really cool way to get these class features" ACF, and more of a, "Here's a reasonable way to lose class features" ACF. I kinda like Aspect of the Dragon from Dragon Magic for that purpose, just for being generally better than Aspect of Nature.

[kulosle]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the most broken feat to take as your 9th level feat. Skill Focus (Basket Weaving). Nuff said.

[eggynack]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the most broken feat to take as your 9th level feat. Skill Focus (Basket Weaving). Nuff said.
Inexplicably, Firechanter already mentioned the feat in his first post. So... yeah.

[kulosle]

oh i feel sad now. But as far as actual advise is concerned. I feel that druid optimization is in choosing the right spells. Umm there is a list of good druid spells some where. i'll find it for ya

[eggynack]

oh i feel sad now. But as far as actual advise is concerned. I feel that druid optimization is in choosing the right spells. Umm there is a list of good druid spells some where. i'll find it for ya
It is a somewhat tragic state of affairs. Anyways, you are correct that spell selection is probably the most important part of druid optimization. However, until I'm done writing up all of the good druid spells (it could take awhile) I must default to the existing sources. Lessee, revisiting spells for the optimized druid (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1558.0), the druid handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0) (not just spells), and the revived druid handbook (also some not-spells). There's a lot of crossover, but I think that there may be elements unique to all of them.