Dojo Destroyer Build [3.5]

[Beelzebub1111]

So I had an idea for a character build. An unarmed martial artist that is developing his own style that's one part "dirty street-fighting" and one part "maniac freestyle". He wants to show up monks who turned him away and formalize his style of fighting gaining a reputation, positive or negative. I'd spend the first couple levels developing the style then start making challenges around level 7 or 8. I don't want to use any ToB classes, though ToB Feats are still okay. Here's what I have so far
Stats: Dexterity a priority, Then constitution, then Intelligence
1 Rogue 1; Improved Unarmed Strike; Human: Martial Study(Shadow Blade Technique)
2 Rogue 2
3 Rogue 3; Weapon Finesse
4 Rogue 4
5 Rogue 5
6 Rogue 5/Fighter 1; Martial Stance(Island of Blades); Shadow Blade.
7 Rogue 5/Fighter 2; Combat Expertise
8 Rogue 6/Fighter 2;
9 Rogue 7/Fighter 2; Improved Feint
10 Rogue 7/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1;
11 Rogue 7/Fighter 2/Barbarian 2;
12 ??? ;Superior Unarmed Strike

I'm at a loss of what to do at this point. I was considering skill tricks like Acrobatic Backstab. Basically coming up with ways to flat-foot an opponent one-on-one and get sneak attacks. The idea is to fight monks, as a monk, better than a monk, without being a monk. If that makes any sense.

[Segev]

One of the Zinc Saucier challenges attempted this; you might find inspiration there.

[Slipperychicken]

I don't want to use any Martial classes, '

[Fighter levels, Barbarian levels]


You mean Initiator/ToB classes, right?

[Beelzebub1111]

You mean Initiator/ToB classes, right?
That is exactly what I meant. Fix'd

[Keneth]

Dojo Destroyer

Is that like a Gazebo Hunter? :smalltongue:

[Beelzebub1111]

Is that like a Gazebo Hunter? :smalltongue:

Cute. But any idea on how to progress from level 12?

[Deadline]

Ascetic Rogue and Superior Unarmed Strike might both be good for increased unarmed strike damage.

[Vaz]

So I had an idea for a character build. An unarmed martial artist that is developing his own style that's one part "dirty street-fighting" and one part "maniac freestyle". He wants to show up monks who turned him away and formalize his style of fighting gaining a reputation, positive or negative. I'd spend the first couple levels developing the style then start making challenges around level 7 or 8. I don't want to use any ToB classes, though ToB Feats are still okay. Here's what I have so far
Stats: Dexterity a priority, Then constitution, then Intelligence
1 Rogue 1; Improved Unarmed Strike; Human: Martial Study(Shadow Blade Technique)
Do not Qualify for Martial Study, you need Initiator Level of 1, as a none Initiator, you have a 1/2, and there's nothing which states "minimum of 1"; as you're only "1/2", and not attained "1", then that does not count.


6 Rogue 5/Fighter 1; Martial Stance(Island of Blades); Shadow Blade.
Technically you do not qualify for Shadow Blade at the same time as you gain the stance.

9 Rogue 7/Fighter 2; Improved FeintFeinting is not considered good use of the action economy. You'll need Travel Devotion to make adequate use of this, and even then only 1/day without access to Turn Undead.

10 Rogue 7/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1;
11 Rogue 7/Fighter 2/Barbarian 2; Assuming Spirit Lion Totem barbarian here.

12 ??? ;Superior Unarmed Strike
Cloisted Cleric with Travel, Knowledge and Death Devotion to increase attack, damage, and efficiency with your actions.

From there on, I'd advise just advancing it all the way to the end; 9 levels of Cleric Casting is very versatile. Finding some way of getting Greater Might Wallop on your class list (Magic Domain, UMD a Runestave when preparing spells), and go to town; DMM Persist on Divine Power, Consumptive Field boosted CL for Greater Mighty Wallop... Cooking with Gas.

Alternatively Become devoted to Bahamut, and use those Claws from Complete Divine (Champion?) which stack for +10 with a Monks Belt, and a further +4 from Superior Unarmed Strike, you're right in there.

I wouldn't even bother with the Dex to hit+damage feats; it's burning 4 feats for less MAD; just pump strength (easily done with Divine Power etc).

[Telonius]

I think I get what you're trying to do with Island of Blades, but it really won't benefit you unless you're attacking with allies. And the whole point of this guy is to beat up other monks one on one, right? You're really not getting much mileage out of the Rogue levels otherwise.

So here's how I'd model it. Rogue first for skill points and sneak attack (qualifying for Craven). Also gives you (potentially) a dash of chaos that the Monks wouldn't like. Then, a couple of levels of Monk, since he'd been at the dojo a little bit before they threw him out. After that, Fighter for the feats and developing your own style.

Rogue1/Monk (Overwhelming Assault variant)2/(Dungeon Crasher ACF Thug variant) Fighter6

1 Able Learner (Human), Combat Expertise (1st)
2 Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk), Power Attack (Monk)
3 Craven (3rd), Improved Bull Rush (Monk)
4 (No Ftr feat, Thug)
5 Dungeon Crasher I (Ftr)
6 Improved Trip (6th)
7 Improved Grapple (Ftr)
8
9 Improved Natural Attack (9th), Dungeon Crasher II (Ftr)

Focus on Strength. Able Learner lets you make better use of your cross-class skills (Rogue level helps tremendously, and is especially important with the Fighter levels). That could give you more of a parkour flavor if you want, with extra skill points to spend on things like Balance, Tumble, or even Bluff if you're dead set on trying to Feint. Craven will let you get bonus damage if you happen to catch somebody unawares.

From there on out, Barbarian and go nuts. Or, switch to Ranger and see if you can get your DM to approve "Monk" as a favored enemy.

An alternate to this would be to start out as a Changeling (ditching Able Learner at 1st), then into Warshaper at 10, and whatever you like afterwards.

[pilvento]

If you want Int to be a key to your build then why not monk1/swashbuckler3/rogue2 taking darning outlaw at lvl 6 ?

With Carmendine monk you can use your Intelligence bonus instead of your Wisdom bonus for determining your monk AC bonus and for determining the save DC against your stunning fist. Stuned = Sneak Attack

Human (Martial Study)(Superior Unarmed Strike)
Monk 1 (Carmedine Monk, Stuning Fist)
Swashbuckler1 (Weapon Finesse)
Swashbuckler2 (Martial Stance)
Rogue1
Rogue2
Rouge3 (Darning Outlaw)
Swashbuckler3
Swashbuckler4
Swashbuckler5 (Shadow Blade) or (Craven)
Swashbuckler6

At lvl 10 you have:
Attack 9 + dex + weapon mod
Dmg 1d6 + dex + int + str + weapon mod (sneack attack 5d6)
Armor Class 10 + dex + int + equipment

Move next to enemy, STUN DC 10+5+int, next turn flurry of sneack attack blows. End of combat.

For the next lvls you can find a nice Prestige class.

[Hytheter]

Human (Martial Study)(Superior Unarmed Strike)
Monk 1 (Carmedine Monk, Stuning Fist)


You can't take all three of those feats at level 1. You have 1 level 1 feat and 1 Human feat, and some Bonus Monk Feats. None of the bolded are bonus Monk feats, so you can only pick two of them. Personally, I'd drop Superior Unarmed strike. You'll have enough sources of damage as it is, and Superior Unarmed strike will only increase it by an average of 1.

That said, I like the build otherwise.

If Carmendine Monk is out due to the flavour requirement, you can always use Kung Fu Genius. Slightly inferior, but enough for our purposes.

[Metahuman1]

Not exactly what you wanted but maybe Fistbeard Beardfist with a bit of Jack-Be-Nimble build thrown in?



Alternatively, Emperor Tippy once gave me a build for a quarter staff user that was rather powerful. Swap a few things around and it could suit you well.

Tippy's Build.


Unseelie Fey Gray Elf Rogue 1/Monk 1/Factotum 17/Mindbender 1

Feats:
Vow of Poverty (Chaos Shuffled away at level 20 for 11 extra feats, otherwise don't take)
Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Int to HP)
Kung Fu Genius (Int to Monk abilities)
Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance)
Shadow Blade
Weapon Finesse
Snap Kick
Craven
Darkstalker
Superior Unarmed Strike
Mindsight
Keen Intellect
Font of Inspiration 12 times (78 additional IP)

---
Every time you take an attack action you gain an unarmed strike thanks to snap kick. With 4 IP spent on each attack you gain Int to attack and damage on both of them along with 3d6 sneak attack and +20 damage from craven on both attacks. Use Cunning Surge to make 11 of those in a round (and one for Wraithstrike so that they are all touch attacks).

Even when you can't sneak attack you still get the two attacks with +Int to Attack and Damage on each.

Is it the best? No, but it gives you what you want and lets you fill lots of other possible roles thanks to Factotum.

The only attributes that you need to worry about are Int and Dex, which should be 36 and 32 (18/17 base with 11 Str) at level 20.

Use a +3 Tome to get your strength up to 10 (and probably to improve your 4 Con as well, although that is less important).

[Beelzebub1111]

Thanks for all the advice, though I wanted to specifically avoid taking monk levels for flavor reasons. This is a character that lacks any sort of discipline, and I want his classes to reflect that. I don't see him devoting himself to a deity or order.



Technically you do not qualify for Shadow Blade at the same time as you gain the stance.

Yes you do.


Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.


I agree that Superior Unarmed Strike isn't that important, especially at lower levels. I like the Swashbuckler suggestion, though. I'd like to keep my stats as SAD as possible. With weapon finesse and shadow blade allowing me to sink all of my effort into DEX and Keep my AC high without relying on armor. (How does it look when a guy in full plate enters a martial arts duel with an unarmored monk? not very good if I win, and even worse if I lose)

I picked Island of Blades because between that and Child of Shadow, I think that I'd be using Island of Blades more in game.

I know I'm sacrificing a lot for the sake of flavor. But I've always been a "flavor comes first" kind of guy.

[Hytheter]

Actually, if you're taking the Carmendine Swashbuckler route, I'd drop the ToB feats altogether. The third level of Swashbuckler nets you insightful strike, which adds Int to damage. With Weapon Finesse, you now have DEX to hit and AC, as well as INT to damage and AC.

Also, by the time you would get Shadow Blade you've got 4D6 sneak attack - by that point your Sneak Attack Damage is far more valuable than damage based on your ability scores.
Though I guess Island of Blades helps with sneak attacking, and Shadow Blade could be useful for when you can't sneak attack...

[pilvento]

I second Hytheter, but the martial feat chain was you original choice thats why i mentioned it, i also like to prioritice flavour so i can think of 2 diferent choices.

1: go for the chaotic monk variant, you perfected your own style, you have no masters or dojo. the flavour is how you play, imagine, and describe your character, in most of the cases.

2: play an stright darning outlaw and ask your DM to let you play the invisible blade PRC and use unarmed strikes instead of daggers, after all your unarmed dmg dice is not that big... you get int ac bonus, full bab, Sneak attack and if free feint is a nice dirty fighting technique.

i also recomend if you chose not to use the martial feat chain, to pick improved initiative and of course imp unarmed strike if you avoid monk.

other prc to look can be the streetfighter, the duelist (unarmed strikes are light weapons) man... duelist can be a nice choice now that i think of it, you just need from dragon compendium the riposte feat and sneak attack of oportunity.

[Crake]

Do not Qualify for Martial Study, you need Initiator Level of 1, as a none Initiator, you have a 1/2, and there's nothing which states "minimum of 1"; as you're only "1/2", and not attained "1", then that does not count.

Where exactly does it say under martial study that you need an initiator level of 1? Because as far as I can see, it seems to have no per-requisites.

[Vaz]

There was a discussion regarding qualification for feats at the same level as you gain the requisite a while ago, and I seem to remember that due to the process laid out for gaining a level in the PHB it was decided not to (as you gained the feat (Shadowblade) before you gained the class feature (bonus feat martial stance). However, I cannot find the thread, so that is moot point.

Look at the wording of Martial Study; "initiator level equal to 1/2 your character level". Nothing in martial study states you can bypass the initiator level requirements.

[Hytheter]

Where exactly does it say under martial study that you need an initiator level of 1? Because as far as I can see, it seems to have no per-requisites.

You need to meet the pre-requisites of the chosen maneuver, all of which require an initiator level of at least 1 (usually higher).

Mind you, I was under the impression that the initiator level had a minimum of 1 anyway, so level 1 would be IL 1. I could be wrong though.

[Vaz]

It doesn't explicitly state as such, whereas every other one does.