Comic #7

[Luna_Mayflower]

What is Durkon using in comic #7? At first glance it looks like Miracle, the "machine" even mentions it being a miracle, but Durkon seems much too low a level, especially back then, to have 9th level spells. So what is he using to get healing for Elan?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Probably Commune, to ask a special favor of his god. Which Rich used to lampoon automated customer service.

[Branco]

its obviously a joke riffing on automatic hotlines.

{Scrubbed}

[Vinsfeld]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

WOW. You got all of this from a single comic?

[Branco]

No I was thinking of all of the following "Thor-as-a-punchline"-comics. Especially the one in which he fails to help Durkon in the fight against malAck.

[137beth]

I always thought it meant that gods were like large corporations: very powerful, but not very responsive to the requests or needs of individuals (unless the individual is extra powerful, i.e. a rich person or an 17th level cleric).

[snikrept]

Commune just gets you intel, not spell-casts, though

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commune.htm

I think it's maybe supposed to be fluff about resting and replenishing spells for the day?

[Tiiba]

No I was thinking of all of the following "Thor-as-a-punchline"-comics. Especially the one in which he fails to help Durkon in the fight against malAck.

I think he gets shortchanged for that one. He was only trying to save a follower from damnation. Sure, his claim was ridiculous, but let's face it, so was Hel's. You shouldn't go to hel just because you got sick.

(BTW, where does the "dwarves hate trees" thing come from?)

[NerdyKris]

(BTW, where does the "dwarves hate trees" thing come from?)

I don't think it "came" from anywhere. I think it's just a silly thing he made up for Durkon's character, and by extension dwarves in the OOTS verse in general.

[littlebum2002]

(BTW, where does the "dwarves hate trees" thing come from?)

Because their roots are constantly ruining the walls of the dwarves tunnels. One comic said that, but I forget which one.

Also, it could have just been foreshadowing, since now Durkon REALLY hates trees. Well, at least parts of trees which have been cut short and sharpened...

[Newwby]

Because their roots are constantly ruining the walls of the dwarves tunnels. One comic said that, but I forget which one.

Also, it could have just been foreshadowing, since now Durkon REALLY hates trees. Well, at least parts of trees which have been cut short and sharpened...

If Durkon is staked in the future this will be the single greatest literary foreshadowing ever.

[NerdyKris]

Given that Rich has said he was planning the "Durkon gets vamped" joke-eventually-plot from the second strip, I wouldn't be surprised if that was intentional, since the tree thing came up during the bandit camp storyline.

[Darkohaku]

Because their roots are constantly ruining the walls of the dwarves tunnels. One comic said that, but I forget which one.

Also, it could have just been foreshadowing, since now Durkon REALLY hates trees. Well, at least parts of trees which have been cut short and sharpened...

150 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0150.html)

Now Durkon really have motives to hate trees.

Respect to the gods, Thor is usually an irresponsible god, and many times fails to his/her followers. It's not just a thing in OOTS-verse, but in many real life myths and stories. The scene of the Thorprayer just demonstrate this.

[Kish]

I think he gets shortchanged for that one. He was only trying to save a follower from damnation. Sure, his claim was ridiculous, but let's face it, so was Hel's. You shouldn't go to hel just because you got sick.
If Thor objects to the metaphysical underpinnings of the entire dwarven belief system, he should say something about that, not just passive-aggressively invent an objection every time a soul should legally go to Hel.

[Tiiba]

If Thor objects to the metaphysical underpinnings of the entire dwarven belief system, he should say something about that, not just passive-aggressively invent an objection every time a soul should legally go to Hel.

You don't know what it's like! Everybody has objections, and everyone's objection, if accepted, would result in that particular god getting more souls. Every time, without fail, these arguments turn into blame fests and yo mama jokes, and the misguided laws created at the dawn of time remain unchanged. And that's when it doesn't get to the smiting. The best any of us can do is cling to technicalities and hope nobody calls our bluffs.

[GameJudge]

Comparitive Mythology (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html)

Malack: Wait. Do not dwarven souls rest on the Outer Plane that matches their alignment, as it is with my people, or the humans?
Durkon: Only those tha die wit honor. Tha rest be lumped tagether an' sent ta Hel. Tha's OK, tho, since most sick dwarves'll just pick a fight wit a conifer an' die in battle.
Durkon: Also, thar be some grey areas.
Hel: He died of disease, that means he's mine!
Thor: But the disease was mummy rot, and he contracted it defending an orphanage!
Hel: Bah!

Note that the tree fights are listed before the grey areas. It's a standing tenet, not an invented objection.

[Toper]

What is Durkon using in comic #7? At first glance it looks like Miracle, the "machine" even mentions it being a miracle, but Durkon seems much too low a level, especially back then, to have 9th level spells. So what is he using to get healing for Elan?
He's not casting anything -- I think he's praying to regain spells. In support of this, see comic #40 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0040.html), where recovering spells is noted as a purpose of the answering machine. Also note that two comics later (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html), V has completed an Identify (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/identify.htm) spell, which has a casting time of an hour -- long enough for Durkon to get his spells back, if it's the right time of day.

[Rogar Demonblud]

But he'd only get replacements for those spells cast more than 8 hours previously. Wouldn't be the case now, since Rich has long since moved away from slavishly following the rules, but he wasn't quite to that spot yet back then.

[Roland Itiative]

If Thor objects to the metaphysical underpinnings of the entire dwarven belief system, he should say something about that, not just passive-aggressively invent an objection every time a soul should legally go to Hel.

That sounds like a very good way to create a Snarl that would eventually grow powerful enough to kill them all... which, I guess, Thor would be thrilled to fight :smalltongue:

[Kish]

That sounds like a very good way to create a Snarl that would eventually grow powerful enough to kill them all... which, I guess, Thor would be thrilled to fight :smalltongue:
Which, saying "I have a problem with the idea of souls going to a deity who they never worshiped and very much don't want to go to" or passive-aggressively finding a way to object every time a soul should go to Hel?

Comparitive Mythology (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html)

Malack: Wait. Do not dwarven souls rest on the Outer Plane that matches their alignment, as it is with my people, or the humans?
Durkon: Only those tha die wit honor. Tha rest be lumped tagether an' sent ta Hel. Tha's OK, tho, since most sick dwarves'll just pick a fight wit a conifer an' die in battle.
Durkon: Also, thar be some grey areas.
Hel: He died of disease, that means he's mine!
Thor: But the disease was mummy rot, and he contracted it defending an orphanage!
Hel: Bah!

Note that the tree fights are listed before the grey areas. It's a standing tenet, not an invented objection.
Durkon believes that trees are actually dangerous opponents.

But if it's actually official that "any death caused by a tree counts as a death in battle," Hel would appear not to have gotten the memo. There is no, "But the infection was caused by a tree, and you know I get tree-inflicted deaths." Instead Thor, with his yelling about BRAVERY KNOWING NO BOUNDS, would appear to have reached Step Three: If the facts and the law are against you, pound on the table.

[Roland Itiative]

Which, saying "I have a problem with the idea of souls going to a deity who they never worshiped and very much don't want to go to" or passive-aggressively finding a way to object every time a soul should go to Hel?
The former. After all, (if the backstory we were provided is even partially true) the gods took turns deciding on things for the second world, as their attempts to overrule each other on the foundations of the world is what created the Snarl. The decision to get the souls of dwarves that died from disease was probably one of Hel's picks (her first one, probably).

[Kish]

And you think being passive-aggressive about his objections is better?

I suppose it might take Hel a little longer to realize what's going on if Thor doesn't spell it out to her. But it's rarely a good idea to assume a D&D deity is stupid.

[Roland Itiative]

It sounds better than trying to actually undo and remake the rules against the will of the god who made them. Bending the rules might be less stressfull than flat out breaking them with no excuses.

[Bartle]

{Scrubbed}Okay, but how did the pudding get in the urn in the first place?? :smallconfused:

[veti]

If Thor objects to the metaphysical underpinnings of the entire dwarven belief system, he should say something about that, not just passive-aggressively invent an objection every time a soul should legally go to Hel.

There's a legitimate grey area between "struck down in battle" (Valhalla) and "died oaf illness/old age" (Helheim), and "died later of wounds contracted in battle" surely falls into that area. Thor is quite right to argue for the soul in those circumstances.

What Thor lacks - and this, I think, points to Thor being CG rather than L or NG - is trustworthy minions to take care of this sort of task. Every time we've seen him failing to take care of worshippers, it's because he's distracted by something else. He has minions, but he doesn't delegate enough authority to them to spare his own time. To me that says "Chaotic" - he doesn't trust organisations in general, not even his own.

[Kish]

There's a legitimate grey area between "struck down in battle" (Valhalla) and "died oaf illness/old age" (Helheim), and "died later of wounds contracted in battle" surely falls into that area. Thor is quite right to argue for the soul in those circumstances.
Again, Hel didn't say, "But that was days ago!" She said, "TREES ARE INANIMATE PLANTS, YOU BUFFOON!"

Not contesting that the illness was caused by a tree; contesting that being "defeated" in "battle" by a tree was a thing.