Pathfinder Character Creation advice

[Glenn.Goldenrod]

I want to make the ultimate sword wielding *possibly bastard sword* magic user. I want him to be a bad ass; I want him to be calm but power/knowledge hungry as he will be practically a bad guy somewhat. What are my options?
P.S. Acrobatics would be nice
I was thinking something mixed with the Djinni Bloodline Sorcerer but I don't know what makes good for multiclassing in that case.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/43522836f1dc2a6a7cddefb639a14b76/tumblr_mreumsS7Wk1rb6tg4o1_500.jpg

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/djinni-bloodline

[Snowbluff]

Knowledge hungry would make me think Wizard. Fighter + Eldritch Knight would give you some martial skill.

Paladin would work well with Sorcerer, but if you are going more evil...

Magus is PF's gish in a can, and they can lay on the pain.

[Glenn.Goldenrod]

Magus looks pretty good. Umm, what is gish?

[Snowbluff]

... is PF your first RPG? :smallconfused:

Regardless, a Gish is a melee/warrior magic user. It comes from the Githyanki term for a Fighter/Wizard. :smallsmile:

[Glenn.Goldenrod]

It is not, just none of the people I play with use terms like those I see on sites like this.
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/17172/1416867-sj_shoulder_shrug.jpg

[Snowbluff]

It is not, just none of the people I play with use terms like those I see on sites like this.


Okay.

Protip, the forum rules discourage using images over 400 pixels wide. People on the forum use mobile devices and I don't want you getting points for this, so please try to keep the images on the smaller side.

[NightbringerGGZ]

A Magus is probably your best bet. You don't gain Acrobatics as a class skill, but you could use one of your two traits to turn it into one (and gain a +1 trait bonus to boot). Strength builds work well for a Magus, but if your group is really into optimization then go with a Dervish Dance build where you pick up the feats Weapon Finesse at level 1, Dervish Dance at level 3 and from level 3 and on you will fight with a Scimitar and use your Dexterity score for your melee attack bonus and melee damage.

[Snowbluff]

Your other Trait is Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp), and at level seven you pick up Intensify Spell.

[Turion]

Your other Trait is Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp), and at level seven you pick up Intensified Spell.

Fixed. Intensify spell is a 3rd party feat by four winds that allows you to reduce the spell's range to increase its CL. It isn't very good.

I agree Magus is probably your best bet. Keep in mind that even if acrobatics isn't a class skill for you, that just means you don't get the +3 trained bonus. Putting cross-class ranks in it is still a completely viable option.

(just should mention: your other option would be something like fighter 1/wizard 5/eldritch knight 10/something wizardy 4, or possibly paladin 2/sorcerer 5/eldritch knight 10. The latter loses 9th level spells, but has nice charisma synergy, and allows you to cap off with dragon disciple. The former is strictly better, though, especially for a knowledge-heavy character.)

[Zubrowka74]

The Bladebound archetype gives you an intelligent weapon at level 3. For the bastard sword you can be half-elven and take the "Ancestral Arms" ARF netting you the proficiency w/out burning a feat.

My question though : why not make a Wiz20 or Sorc20 ? Work as an upper tier badass and when you get access to stuff like Transformation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/transformation) and the shape/polymorph serie (even Alter Self (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/alter-self)) you can happily join the melee.

[Psyren]

Transformation is terrible. Melee with spells > melee without spells.

I second the Magus recommendation; you can be a knowledge-hungry sword-wielding badass all the way from first level.

[Zubrowka74]

Transformation is terrible. Melee with spells > melee without spells.

Hhmmm, I missed the part about loosing spellcasting. Indeed it's pretty lame, polymorph also if you choose "humanoid" at a later level. Wow, it really DID get nerfed.

Anyhow, the Magus' spell list caps at 6th level, advances rather slowly and isn't stellar. With enough buffs a full caster would we more of a badass.

[Kudaku]

Sorry to pile on here, but Magus is the go-to class for "swordwielding badass with magical powers". Mix and match archetypes (vanilla, bladebound, kensai etc) to get the balance between "lots of spells" and "crazy good with swords" just right.

Other valid options are the bard, the inquisitor, and the cleric, though none of these manage to blend spells and full combat the way the magus can via Spell Combat.

I've seen some successful sorcerer melee builds but it requires a fair bit of system mastery - you can fit a square peg in a round hole if you work hard enough on reshaping it, but you're usually better off just using a round peg :smallsmile:

[Psyren]

Anyhow, the Magus' spell list caps at 6th level, advances rather slowly and isn't stellar. With enough buffs a full caster would we more of a badass.

The Magus does get less magic, but if magic is your primary concern why gish at all?

Eldritch Knight has a higher ceiling, but you're basically just a wizard until you get into it, and it doesn't give you as much synergy between your "halves." Meanwhile Magi can cast and attack at the same time, giving them a more gishy feel.

[Ravens_cry]

Magus are a gish in a can and can be a damn good can in my humble opinion. If you don't want to burn a feat (you still need weapon finesse), you can get any one handed or light weapon finesse applicable weapon and add the Agile enchantment to get dex to damage. It's simply stat efficiency after all.

[Psyren]

I really, really want to make a Hobgoblin magus with Pit Boss for the whips. Their fluff despises arcanists so that would be a pretty good reason to become an adventurer, but being a former slaver he'd have to be kind of an arse, maybe?

[Dr. Yes]

The Magus does get less magic, but if magic is your primary concern why gish at all?

Eldritch Knight has a higher ceiling, but you're basically just a wizard until you get into it, and it doesn't give you as much synergy between your "halves." Meanwhile Magi can cast and attack at the same time, giving them a more gishy feel.

If you take a level in your martial class first and do the Metamagic Master/Heighten Spell early entry for Eldritch Knight, you're actually only two behind full BAB, matching the Magus early on and surpassing it quickly. In spell level and spells per day you catch up to the magus at 4th level and pull ahead at 6th.

It's true, however, that EK doesn't get the same kind of out-of-the-box synergy that Magus does. The trade-off for being a better fighter and a better caster is that you can only do one of those things in a given round.

EDIT: Just took a closer look at it, and Fighter 1/Wizard 3 is the only level where an EK slips behind the Magus's BAB. Without early entry, however, the Magus does get the edge until level 9.

[Psyren]

If you take a level in your martial class first and do the Metamagic Master/Heighten Spell early entry for Eldritch Knight, you're actually only two behind full BAB, matching the Magus early on and surpassing it quickly. In spell level and spells per day you catch up to the magus at 4th level and pull ahead at 6th.

Yes, but you still can't cast and attack in the same round aside from swift-action spells, and the Magus gets those too. You also don't get non-spell methods of boosting your to-hit, the ability to channel spells through your weapon, the ability to boost your concentration to more effectively cast in melee etc. You just get spells, fighter feats and BAB with EK. It's a gish, certainly, but often feel and synergy are as important as sheer power.

BAB is really a wash in this case. Because the Magus can cast while attacking, they actually get better economy despite having one less attack.

[grarrrg]

or possibly paladin 2/sorcerer 5/eldritch knight 10.

That's the 2nd time in three days I've seen someone miscount Sorcerer levels as it relates to qualifying for Spell Casting requirements (whether typo or brain fart or whatever).

Eldritch Knight needs 3rd level Arcane to enter. Sorc's get 3rd level at 6th.

Agree that Magus is a solid choice, and the easiest option.

Regarding Paladin/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight, since you're giving up on 9th level spells anyway, don't go for Eldritch Knight first, go with Dragon Disciple.
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 3/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight is quite solid, giving you the Dragon STR bonuses up front, and being pretty much strictly better than more levels of Sorcerer (minus the lost casting of course).

[Turion]

That's the 2nd time in three days I've seen someone miscount Sorcerer levels as it relates to qualifying for Spell Casting requirements (whether typo or brain fart or whatever).

Eldritch Knight needs 3rd level Arcane to enter. Sorc's get 3rd level at 6th.

Agree that Magus is a solid choice, and the easiest option.

Regarding Paladin/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight, since you're giving up on 9th level spells anyway, don't go for Eldritch Knight first, go with Dragon Disciple.
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 3/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight is quite solid, giving you the Dragon STR bonuses up front, and being pretty much strictly better than more levels of Sorcerer (minus the lost casting of course).

Yeah, sorry. I was posting from my phone, and couldn't remember if it was a cl requirement or based on spell level. Point still stands, though; enough sorcerer to get in. :smallredface:

[AttilaTheGeek]

Having played both a Magus and an Eldritch Knight, the biggest difference in feel is this: the magus casts spells and is in melee, while the EK casts spells or is in melee. With a move action to walk in or out of the fight, the EK can switch from being a powerful spellcaster to a powerful melee warrior. On the other hand, the magus is a competent caster and a competent warrior all the time. Though they're both gishes, they have very different playstyles. Personally, I prefer the Eldritch Knight, but they're both great fun and the EK doesn't come online until level 7-8 anyway.

[Zubrowka74]

The Magus does get less magic, but if magic is your primary concern why gish at all?

I've got nothing against the Magus (I'm playing one right now) but it's just the feeling I got from the OP. Magus is magic at the service of melee. Casting outside combat is really secondary. By all means if he likes the Magus then that's what he'll choose. I agree with Attila's description.

Also, it's not that much of squaring a circle as a tier 1 is supposed to be able to do the fighter's job better, and with 1d6 hp/level Pathfinder did not change this.