Whatever happened to Hilgya?

[Griffincat]

She and Durkon fight, then fight together, then get together, and he sends her away, apparently never to be seen again.

1) Did she go back to the dwarven homeland? because that might be awkward if the Order gets there and runs into her, or useful.

Awkward because...

2) what are the odds in D&D of a dwarven one-night stand resulting in pregnancy? "Here's your kid, but please don't eat him."

Useful because...

3) Assuming she leveled the same way that Durkon did, she could resurrect him since she's a cleric and all.

I have wondered this for awhile.

[DaveMcW]

You didn't miss anything, she just hasn't been seen yet.

Less than two books to go before you find out what happened to her.

[JGoldenberg]

She wouldn't be in the Dwarven Homelands. Dwarves are traditionally LG in D&D, and she was a CE Cleric of Loki. You'd have a better chance finding her at Greyhaven at the church of Loki than among Thor's most faithful.

[Geordnet]

There is definitely the possibility that we'll see Hilgya again, and that she'll play a significant role in Durkula's plot arc.

I'm not sure about the pregnancy, though. It seems to be a popular theory here on the forum, but I for one don't really see the point. (I'm not sure there's even been enough time for the first symptoms of pregnancy to appear...)

[Zmeoaice]

She died in the Red Mountain explosion.

[Geordnet]

She wouldn't be in the Dwarven Homelands. Dwarves are traditionally LG in D&D, and she was a CE Cleric of Loki. You'd have a better chance finding her at Greyhaven at the church of Loki than among Thor's most faithful.
We don't know that she was Evil; she could have been CN.

Besides, you don't think there's a chuch of Loki in the Dwarven Homelands (even a hidden one)? There are other reasons why she might have gone back as well, such as Durkon's influence.

[JavaScribe]

We don't know that she was Evil; she could have been CN.
Problem with that theory is, running away from her husband wasn't her first resort, it was her second. Her first resort was to murder him.

[Starwulf]

There is definitely the possibility that we'll see Hilgya again, and that she'll play a significant role in Durkula's plot arc.

I'm not sure about the pregnancy, though. It seems to be a popular theory here on the forum, but I for one don't really see the point. (I'm not sure there's even been enough time for the first symptoms of pregnancy to appear...)

Uhh, I'm pretty sure it's been at least 2-3 months since their tryst happened, if not more. I'd try to give an actual time estimate, but I'm pretty sure I'd be horribly off, but with all the events that have happened since what..strip 70ish?, that's definitely been longer then the month required for her to realize she's pregnant.

Edit: there we go! I knew I could find concrete proof. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0499.html

That right there, just by the time Roy was done playing with his little brother, was astounded to find out that over 3 months had passed by down below. Considering how much time that alone took, I think I may not be out of bounds by saying that if Hilyga was pregnant, she's likely already had the child by now.

[Ramien]

Uhh, I'm pretty sure it's been at least 2-3 months since their tryst happened, if not more. I'd try to give an actual time estimate, but I'm pretty sure I'd be horribly off, but with all the events that have happened since what..strip 70ish?, that's definitely been longer then the month required for her to realize she's pregnant.

Edit: there we go! I knew I could find concrete proof. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0499.html

That right there, just by the time Roy was done playing with his little brother, was astounded to find out that over 3 months had passed by down below.

It's been at least a full year since the tryst - remember how long Roy was dead and how long the goblins ran Azure City/Gobbotopia before Xykon left?

I'm still expecting Hilgya to be very pleased with Durkon's new condition. He's all dark and edgy now, after all.

[Geordnet]

Problem with that theory is, running away from her husband wasn't her first resort, it was her second. Her first resort was to murder him.
She didn't go through with it though. She could have stabbed her husband or set fire to their dwelling and then ran away, but didn't. And we don't know her well enough to exclude the possibility of her doing enough Good deeds to balance out the Evil.


Uhh, I'm pretty sure it's been at least 2-3 months since their tryst happened, if not more. I'd try to give an actual time estimate, but I'm pretty sure I'd be horribly off, but with all the events that have happened since what..strip 70ish?, that's definitely been longer then the month required for her to realize she's pregnant.
Does it only take that short a time? Even without modern pregnancy testing technology? :smallconfused:

Huh, I guess you learn something every day.

[veti]

Uhh, I'm pretty sure it's been at least 2-3 months since their tryst happened, if not more. I'd try to give an actual time estimate, but I'm pretty sure I'd be horribly off, but with all the events that have happened since what..strip 70ish?, that's definitely been longer then the month required for her to realize she's pregnant.

It's been a heck of a lot longer than that. Compare this pregnancy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0587.html), which was conceived shortly after the fall of Azure City. We're now closely approaching (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html) the 'one year' deadline for Belkar's death prophecy, which itself came long after the Dungeon of Dorukan. Overall, that must have been well over a year ago.

But seriously, the odds of a one-night stand resulting in pregnancy are not that high. And as Hilgya is way more experienced in that department than Durkon, and she's the one who initiates the whole "encounter", I would be mildly surprised if she didn't actively take precautions against that outcome.

If it weren't for Narrative Inevitability or something, we wouldn't even be discussing it.

[Gift Jeraff]

Rich said she is evil in Book 3's commentary.

[Newwby]

It's been at least a full year since the tryst - remember how long Roy was dead and how long the goblins ran Azure City/Gobbotopia before Xykon left?

I'm still expecting Hilgya to be very pleased with Durkon's new condition. He's all dark and edgy now, after all.

He's also still lawful (LE to be precise) so the same reason they didn't work out before (Durkon's adherence to tradition) is still probably valid.

Durkon was always more defined by his lawfulness than being good (not to say he isn't good, I just think that's more Roy's defining alignment axis), I think that's probably part of the reason he retains such a large part of his personality now he's all Durkula'd.

[jere7my]

Does it only take that short a time? Even without modern pregnancy testing technology? :smallconfused:

See, there's this thing that happens to a woman's body once a month. When it doesn't happen, that's often the first clue that a woman is pregnant.

[Ron Miel]

What's the gestation period for a dwarf baby? It might be that she's only just starting to show.

I think we're probably not going to see her again, though.

[Pokonic]

What's the gestation period for a dwarf baby? It might be that she's only just starting to show.

I think we're probably not going to see her again, though.

Well, the strip has a history for not having many loose ends, and as it is, Helga's a named individual who was part of a group who has a habit of being surprise encounters for the party.

[Amphiox]

She didn't go through with it though. She could have stabbed her husband or set fire to their dwelling and then ran away, but didn't. And we don't know her well enough to exclude the possibility of her doing enough Good deeds to balance out the Evil.

She tried pretty hard though. It wasn't her holding back or having a change of heart that saved her husband. It was her being particularly incompetent at killing him.



Does it only take that short a time? Even without modern pregnancy testing technology? :smallconfused:

Huh, I guess you learn something every day.

Missing a period is a pretty strong sign, which will occur within 1 month if dwarves have human physiology. Morning sickness kicks in during the first trimester, ie the first three months. Quickening, the moment when the pregnant woman can feel actual fetal movements, around weeks 13-16, so a little past 4 months.

One thing to consider however is that dwarves may very well NOT have human physiology. In real life gestation times often correlate with creature size and overall lifespan. Since D&D dwarves live longer than humans, their gestational periods may also be longer, and all the steps in between correspondingly take longer to manifest.

[Bulldog Psion]

Put me down in the "it would be interesting if Hilgya showed up again, but I doubt it will happen" camp.

[Tock Zipporah]

Uhh, I'm pretty sure it's been at least 2-3 months since their tryst happened, if not more. I'd try to give an actual time estimate, but I'm pretty sure I'd be horribly off, but with all the events that have happened since what..strip 70ish?, that's definitely been longer then the month required for her to realize she's pregnant.

Edit: there we go! I knew I could find concrete proof. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0499.html

That right there, just by the time Roy was done playing with his little brother, was astounded to find out that over 3 months had passed by down below. Considering how much time that alone took, I think I may not be out of bounds by saying that if Hilyga was pregnant, she's likely already had the child by now.

It's been well over a year since the Dungeon of Dorukon. It was mentioned once in comic that the goblins conquered Azure City almost a year ago.

[Grey Watcher]

It's been well over a year since the Dungeon of Dorukon. It was mentioned once in comic that the goblins conquered Azure City almost a year ago.

6 weeks shy of a year ago, as of strip 702. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0702.html) His speech also implies that Vaarsuvius's attack was earlier that week, which would mean that we're about a month shy of a full year from the fall of Azure City. Add to that some time for the Wooden Forest, Miko Miyazaki, the Trial, the Oracle, and Cliffport, and it's almost a sure thing it's been over a year since we last saw Hilgya.

Now, as to how long dwarven pregnancies last, I have no idea. :smallconfused:

[Trickquestion]

Hilgya coming back and interacting with Durkula would be an excellent opportunity for characterization, give us a look at how much of Durkula's personality and moral code have changed. I don't find it happening all that unlikely. After all, how many of us were expecting Z to come back?

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

I'd say its both likely and unlikely to happen. Likely, because it would make for an interesting plot turn, both in the awkward situation and potential hookup (and lamp shading how close that would be to twilight); also, characters not seen for literal years can and have returned, like Zz'dtri. Unlikely as well, because The Giant has a habit of deliberately contradicting speculation done on the forum (like rampant discussions about Elan rezzing Nale, then Nales body being disinterated).

[Clyner]

Personally, i think she's dead. I may be wrong here but even if she made it out of the dungeons alive she'd have fight at least one monster group that was far above her challenge rating on her way back to the nearest town. Even if she is dead though, Count Durkon could still run into her husband and wrap up the arc that way.

[Kornaki]

She didn't go through with it though. She could have stabbed her husband or set fire to their dwelling and then ran away, but didn't. And we don't know her well enough to exclude the possibility of her doing enough Good deeds to balance out the Evil.

Hilgya's husband having a +2 to saving throws against poison isn't a good reason to bump her alignment to neutral

[Bulldog Psion]

Unlikely as well, because The Giant has a habit of deliberately contradicting speculation done on the forum (like rampant discussions about Elan rezzing Nale, then Nales body being disinterated).

Actually, Mr. Burlew doesn't alter his plot to either confirm or baffle forum speculation. His plot is what it is, and some rumors are true and some are not. The idea that he is constantly modifying his plot specifically to thwart forum posts is a bit bizarre, IMO.

In this case, why is it logical to assume that he was baffling the "Nale will be rezzed" people when by putting the disintegration in he's simultaneously confirming all those who speculated that Nale would be disintegrated? :smallconfused: It just doesn't add up.

[Griffincat]

But seriously, the odds of a one-night stand resulting in pregnancy are not that high. And as Hilgya is way more experienced in that department than Durkon, and she's the one who initiates the whole "encounter", I would be mildly surprised if she didn't actively take precautions against that outcome.

See, that can work both ways--she could have seduced him in order to get pregnant, the dwarf equivalent of FAM etc. etc. I'd put the odds of conception at 1d20+plot (1d20 is close to real-life human odds per act for pregnancy, so we'll roll with that for dwarves as well).

As for not escaping the dungeon: it took Durkon quite a while to rejoin the party after the assignation, plus the fights before the dungeon blew up, so I'd say that the odds are good that she got out. She's a servant of Loki, and if he wanted her to survive, she would have. Again, odds are plot.

We've seen pretty much all of the rest of the Linear Guild die on-screen, so I imagine she'll get the same treatment eventually. I was curious enough about her that I hoped that one of the Kickstarter backers would ask to hear more about her (that reward was, sadly, well out of my price range).

[Lord Vukodlak]

I would say that Hilgya returning with Durkon's love child and then resurrecting him from his vampiric form is more likely then seeing Nale alive again.(flashbacks don't count)

[Morquard]

Actually, Mr. Burlew doesn't alter his plot to either confirm or baffle forum speculation. His plot is what it is, and some rumors are true and some are not. The idea that he is constantly modifying his plot specifically to thwart forum posts is a bit bizarre, IMO.
Well that "bizarre idea" comes from Rich himself, who - long ago - had said himself that when he sees a speculation on the forum that's correct, he's inclined to change it to proof them wrong.
From what I gathered it was mostly during those first 100 strips where the plot wasn't really defined yet. He has since then - also long ago, just not quite as long - stated that he doesn't do that anymore.

However it stuck around on the forum and comes up every now and again.

Nale being rezzed or not is a pretty big thing that would change the entire plot, so the Giant just changing that on a whim cause someone guessed right is just a silly idea (not to mention there were like a bazillion people who guessed "disintegrate" as well).

Hilgya showing up again will most likely also have major plot implications. If she has a child or not will so as well. I think the Giant knows the answer to those two questions and has for a long time and will not simply change it cause of forum theories.

Not to mention the fact that the forum has how many members now? Chances are every possible theory is discussed at some point.

[Geordnet]

Unlikely as well, because The Giant has a habit of deliberately contradicting speculation done on the forum (like rampant discussions about Elan rezzing Nale, then Nales body being disinterated).
Rich has explicitly stated that he doesn't alter the plot due to what people are saying on the forum.

Now, he isn't opposed to tweaking non-plot details to kill speculation for things he's never going to do. For instance, disintegrating Kabuto snipped any possibility for a contingency Raise contract from a hireling cleric bringing him back in the bud. Disintegrating Nale likely means he ain't coming back that way. (I wouldn't rule out his ghost haunting Elan or IFCC intervention, though.)



Hilgya's husband having a +2 to saving throws against poison isn't a good reason to bump her alignment to neutral
Just to make it perfectly clear:
The mere fact that she failed at her first attempt doesn't make a difference alignment-wise. What matters is that her husband was still alive when she left.

The fact that she gave up casts doubt as to how much her heart was in that Evil act to begin with. We don't know her well enough to say that it wasn't a sin born of desperation, rather than malice. (Yes I know that it wasn't portrayed like that in the flashback. But that could have just been Rule Of Funny: if the comic had been more serious back then, it might have been different.)

This doubt is enough to raise a significant possibility that she fulfills the Giant's second set of criteria for Neutrality: committing an equal number of Good and Evil acts.

If Rich explicitly stated in commentary that she was Evil, then the point is moot anyways. But I don't like being misrepresented. :smallyuk:

[Kurashima]

If there is a baby Durkula, born to an evil mother, and now residing in a temple of Loki somewhere, the best chance of us ever finding out would be in another book, set in the future, where the child has grown up and decides to set out to reunite with/kill his father.

I dont think thats a realistic concept within this book, so Hilgya will not be returning.

PS : Durkula is dead now, and reborn but with a completely different spellbook. Who does he pray to now for spells? Thor or Nerghal? And I dont recall anyone teaching Durkula the Protection from Daylight spell, and unless he knows how to access the spells in Malack's staff, hes not going to last longer than a day.

[malloyd]

But seriously, the odds of a one-night stand resulting in pregnancy are not that high.

Don't plan your life around that - 5 to 10% chance of something potentially life changing is certainly high enough to count as a risk you should be concerned about.

[AKA_Bait]

Durkula is dead now, and reborn but with a completely different spellbook. Who does he pray to now for spells? Thor or Nerghal? And I dont recall anyone teaching Durkula the Protection from Daylight spell, and unless he knows how to access the spells in Malack's staff, hes not going to last longer than a day.

Odds are good that he will be able to access it out of the staff. Also, unless the order departs immediately, the spell is probably accessible via Malack's library, now that vampire Durkon knows what to look for.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Just to make it perfectly clear:

The mere fact that she failed at her first attempt doesn't make a difference alignment-wise. What matters is that her husband was still alive when she left.

The fact that she gave up casts doubt as to how much her heart was in that Evil act to begin with. We don't know her well enough to say that it wasn't a sin born of desperation, rather than malice. (Yes I know that it wasn't portrayed like that in the flashback. But that could have just been Rule Of Funny: if the comic had been more serious back then, it might have been different.)

Well, to be accurate (and presuming the flashback was fairly accurate itself), we have 1) Hilgya being married by force to someone she doesn't like, possibly actively hates (the fact that her family saw fit to use crossbows cocked and locked to force compliance also has unfortunate implications regarding her clan) 2) Hilgya making at least one, probably several attempts to murder Ivan with poison (ref her quote about it being really hard to get past the Dwarven poison resistance). Note also she's looking for a method with some level of deniability, instead of, say, cutting his throat while he sleeps. 3) She runs away from home, hearth and husband.

Personally, I'd say that somewhere between 2 and 3 she went looking for some kind of help and found her calling with Loki. Which would mean she could have left on his orders, a 'do this for me, and I'll help you with your problem' kind of deal.

[JSSheridan]

He's also still lawful (LE to be precise) so the same reason they didn't work out before (Durkon's adherence to tradition) is still probably valid.

Durkon was always more defined by his lawfulness than being good (not to say he isn't good, I just think that's more Roy's defining alignment axis), I think that's probably part of the reason he retains such a large part of his personality now he's all Durkula'd.

I don't know, I bet he'd be interested in nibbling on her a bit now.