Can Durkon go home now?

[dehro]

if I remember correctly, prophecy told he'd go home once dead..right?
could it be his folks are sitting on a gate?

[Morquard]

That is the most popular theory yes.

[Clyner]

Oh yes. Also, he'll bring death and destruction on the dwarves when he shows up
...considering Xykon's already at the gate I'm very curious about that prophecy now

Edited for spoilers, sorry

[tomandtish]

Depends on what you mean by “can”.

Spoilers for Origin of PCs:

Technically as far as he still knows, he’s under orders to not return home till called for by the High priest of Thor. This is because of the prophecy that he’ll bring death and destruction with him when he returns. Since the dwarf high priest was aware of it as well, presumably the high priest would never call for him. However, as strip 375 indicates, that high priest is dead, and he apparently did not bother informing his successor of the prophecy. So the successor wrote him it was fine for him to return. Unfortunately, MitD ate the message.

Durkon always could return home if he wanted to defy orders. And as far as he knows, he’d still be defying orders if he does. So the question is: Does that matter to him anymore? Does the threat of Xykon outweigh the orders in his mind? And would he make the same decision if he hadn’t been vamped?

Note: I spoiled this because I don’t think it’s been made clear in the online comic that the dwarf high priest banished him because of the prophecy as well. Only in the book.

[Copperdragon]

if I remember correctly, prophecy told he'd go home once dead..right?

Not exactly. It is one interpretation of the prophecy but it misses one point: Durkon could have gone home all the time, he just chose not to because he is extremely Lawful.
Durkon only knows his High Cleric ordered him out of the Dwarven home ("Leave. Now") and that was enough for him. He does not know about any prophecy we learned about in the prequel story.

The other prophecy from the oracle did not say "You can go home when you are dead" but "You will come home when you are dead", and "posthumously" does not say if he is alive, dead (only a body) or an undead (a walking body).
So no matter what: It is not the (any) prophecy that enables him to go home.



could it be his folks are sitting on a gate?

This is very likely. And if they are not "sitting" on it, it is near. I doubt they (Durkon's People, whoever they are) know about the gate, though.

[With a box]

But why they need to exile him? I think just make him 'do not leave dwarven territory' might be first thing in theirs mind (you can't come back if you never came out from somewhere)

[tomandtish]

But why they need to exile him? I think just make him 'do not leave dwarven territory' might be first thing in theirs mind (you can't come back if you never came out from somewhere)

The one person the high priest did speak to about the prophecy brought up that very point. The high priest's response was (basically0 that if they tried to keep him here, sooner or later something would cause him to leave. but if they told him to leave and ordered him not to return till sent for, well, he's so lawful that he won't return till sent for. High priest also implied (not so subtly) that it would be highly likely that he'd get himself killed.

I agree, it seems it would make more sense just to keep him there. Promote him to an official sounding but meaningless position and keep your eye on him. But Thor (and apparently his High Priest) are a few cans shy of a 6 pack.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It would've been better to tell him why they were kicking him out, IMHO, so he'd know the stakes.

Also, the Oracle said posthumously, not post mortem, so Durkon needs to be buried first. Say up to his neck in the sand, with Belkar making another sand-flumph on top of him.:smalltongue:

[littlebum2002]

It would've been better to tell him why they were kicking him out, IMHO, so he'd know the stakes.

Also, the Oracle said posthumously, not post mortem, so Durkon needs to be buried first. Say up to his neck in the sand, with Belkar making another sand-flumph on top of him.:smalltongue:

Definition of POSTHUMOUS
(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/posthumous)

1: born after the death of the father
2: published after the death of the author
3: following or occurring after death <posthumous fame>


I don't think "posthumous" means "after you're buried". At least, not in any dictionary I could find. The word "exhume" which means "to dig up a dead body", and, apparently, there IS an antonym which is of course "inhume" which means "to bury". But the Oracle did not say that Durkon had to be "inhumed".

[Rogar Demonblud]

Look up Humous. It means earth, specifically soil made by decayed vegetation (later spellings drop the o). Not to be confused with hummus, which is something else entirely.

[Psyren]

Look up Humous. It means earth, specifically soil made by decayed vegetation (later spellings drop the o). Not to be confused with hummus, which is something else entirely.

That level of pedantry is easily dismissed. Posthumously simply means "after death" in modern parlance, whatever its etymology may have been.

[Kurashima]

Durkon will go home when he is dead, according to the prophecy. And now, he is dead. The only thing preventing him returning is his lawful nature.

And the death he brings with him is likely to relate to Nerghul, who he now has to pray to for spells (since I dont believe there are any undead priests of Thor). The destruction he brings with him will be OOTS, who lets be honest, bring destruction pretty much everywhere they go due to being an adventuring party.

I would prefer him to go home Post-Hummusly, as V has already been banished once to the plane of ranch salad dressing, so theres a possibility that there has been a visit to the plane of hummus as well :D

Mmmm, Hummus.

[dehro]

I'm thinking that if the dwarves have inadvertedly built something important on top of the gate, given the OotS's tendency to blow them up, that's all the destruction they'd be bringing..

[Psyren]

And the death he brings with him is likely to relate to Nerghul, who he now has to pray to for spells (since I dont believe there are any undead priests of Thor). The destruction he brings with him will be OOTS, who lets be honest, bring destruction pretty much everywhere they go due to being an adventuring party.

We actaully don't know who his deity is yet, or even if he has one. I myself am hoping he ends up as the first cleric of Hel.

Sidenote: I think it's a bit interesting that OotS established that deity power is tied to their worshipers (as we saw when Banjo attempted to smite Roy) but that Hel is a major deity in her pantheon despite having no worshipers at all. Or perhaps all her worshipers are undead, and Durkon is about to meet them...?


I would prefer him to go home Post-Hummusly, as V has already been banished once to the plane of ranch salad dressing, so theres a possibility that there has been a visit to the plane of hummus as well :D

Mmmm, Hummus.

Ha! Well, V gave his away (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html) rather readily, though I can't say whether that means he doesn't like it or simply has a tiny appetite.

[King of Nowhere]

Durkon is still commanded to not return, but the need to fight xykon will probably supersede that. If your boss tell you to stay inside the building, and the building then get fire, and you see no reason to stay, no matter how lawful you are, you are going out of the building, even if it violates the command you were given.

There is a small chance that the "death and destruction" he will bring will refer to his new clerical domains, which probably switched to something like that. The most likely chance, however, is still that death and destruction will bve the result of xykon rampaging.
It is also possible that vampire durkon is evil, and while still friendly to the party, he will be mightily pissed with his people and kill them in retribution. I don't think he's changed THAT much since vampirization, but we cannot discard the possibility.

[Ron Miel]

But why they need to exile him? I think just make him 'do not leave dwarven territory' might be first thing in theirs mind (you can't come back if you never came out from somewhere)


The one person the high priest did speak to about the prophecy brought up that very point. The high priest's response was (basically0 that if they tried to keep him here, sooner or later something would cause him to leave. but if they told him to leave and ordered him not to return till sent for, well, he's so lawful that he won't return till sent for. High priest also implied (not so subtly) that it would be highly likely that he'd get himself killed.

I agree, it seems it would make more sense just to keep him there. Promote him to an official sounding but meaningless position and keep your eye on him. But Thor (and apparently his High Priest) are a few cans shy of a 6 pack.


I think you misunderstand.

The priest of Odin interpreted the phrase "return home" as meaning going back to his own house. They exiled him from the dwarven lands to prevent him going back to his house. They specifically forbade him from going back to his house to pack.

If they had kept him there, given him some official position, he would have still returned to his house eventually.

[Bulldog Psion]

Durkon's coming home again, I think.

You better watch out,
You'd do best to fly,
Better to rout,
I'm telling you why,
Durkula is coming to town.

He's making a list,
He's checking it twice,
Gonna find out
Who he wants to slice,
Durkula is coming to town.

He sees when you are sleeping,
And comes for blood by night,
He's a priest of destruction and dying,
So get ready for a fight!

Oh, you better watch out,
You'd do best to fly,
Better to rout,
Or you're gonna die,
Durkula is coming to town!
Durkula is coming to town!

[dehro]

yeah.. I think you just won the thread.. or broke the internet.. I'm not sure which of the two.

[Newwby]

Not exactly. It is one interpretation of the prophecy but it misses one point: Durkon could have gone home all the time, he just chose not to because he is extremely Lawful.
Durkon only knows his High Cleric ordered him out of the Dwarven home ("Leave. Now") and that was enough for him. He does not know about any prophecy we learned about in the prequel story.

The other prophecy from the oracle did not say "You can go home when you are dead" but "You will come home when you are dead", and "posthumously" does not say if he is alive, dead (only a body) or an undead (a walking body).
So no matter what: It is not the (any) prophecy that enables him to go home.




This is very likely. And if they are not "sitting" on it, it is near. I doubt they (Durkon's People, whoever they are) know about the gate, though.

To be specific, Durkon was always capable of going home but he won't go home until he's dead.

[Forikroder]

Depends on what you mean by “can”.

Spoilers for Origin of PCs:

Technically as far as he still knows, he’s under orders to not return home till called for by the High priest of Thor. This is because of the prophecy that he’ll bring death and destruction with him when he returns. Since the dwarf high priest was aware of it as well, presumably the high priest would never call for him. However, as strip 375 indicates, that high priest is dead, and he apparently did not bother informing his successor of the prophecy. So the successor wrote him it was fine for him to return. Unfortunately, MitD ate the message.

Durkon always could return home if he wanted to defy orders. And as far as he knows, he’d still be defying orders if he does. So the question is: Does that matter to him anymore? Does the threat of Xykon outweigh the orders in his mind? And would he make the same decision if he hadn’t been vamped?

Note: I spoiled this because I don’t think it’s been made clear in the online comic that the dwarf high priest banished him because of the prophecy as well. Only in the book.


im sure Durkon would agonize over it, but even before getting vamped he would ahve gone to the dwarven lands, he may have refused to visit any citys though and avoided contacts with Dwarves while there

[Copperdragon]

To be specific, Durkon was always capable of going home but he won't go home until he's dead.

The be very specific (we have to in the face of prophecies): You should say "until he died".

This opens the options "undead" and "resurrected" (the third option is "dead" (reading "returns as someone carries his body"). Right now it strongly points to the first option here.

[Ruerl]

The one person the high priest did speak to about the prophecy brought up that very point. The high priest's response was (basically0 that if they tried to keep him here, sooner or later something would cause him to leave. but if they told him to leave and ordered him not to return till sent for, well, he's so lawful that he won't return till sent for. High priest also implied (not so subtly) that it would be highly likely that he'd get himself killed.

I agree, it seems it would make more sense just to keep him there. Promote him to an official sounding but meaningless position and keep your eye on him. But Thor (and apparently his High Priest) are a few cans shy of a 6 pack.

That is one thing, but they could have done it even easier:
They could simply tell him about the prophecy and order him to stay at home forever because of the prophecy. Durkon is so lawful that he'd have obeyed. Happily too given the quality of dwarven ale.

[tomandtish]

I think you misunderstand.

The priest of Odin interpreted the phrase "return home" as meaning going back to his own house. They exiled him from the dwarven lands to prevent him going back to his house. They specifically forbade him from going back to his house to pack.

If they had kept him there, given him some official position, he would have still returned to his house eventually.

Heh. I'd never actually gotten that interpretation from up, but rereading I think you're right. Works for me and it makes a lot more sense.


We actaully don't know who his deity is yet, or even if he has one. I myself am hoping he ends up as the first cleric of Hel.

Sidenote: I think it's a bit interesting that OotS established that deity power is tied to their worshipers (as we saw when Banjo attempted to smite Roy) but that Hel is a major deity in her pantheon despite having no worshipers at all. Or perhaps all her worshipers are undead, and Durkon is about to meet them...?


Perhaps there's the possibility that it's not just worshippers that give a deity power, but belief (which can be a form of worship, even if indirect). If there is belief in a deity, then the deity draws a little power.

So worshippers are like filet mignon. Lots of flavor and a lot of bang in a very small package. This is why Banjo was able to zap Roy even though Elan was the only real follower (I'll assume Haley and Belkar never really converted). Belief is like hamburger. Maybe not as tasty, but you can manage on it. Different types of belief might also affect the power.

So, while no one in the Northlands may worship Hel (so no filet), I bet pretty much everyone believes in her (so LOTS of hamburger). Possibly even more importantly, everyone fears her and want to avoid her attention and her realm, so a very specific type of belief. That is probably potent enough to generate power on its own.

It's the difference between getting $100 from 100 people and $1 from 1,000,000 people. Quantity can be a power all its own even if it is not as pure.

[Psyren]

It does make sense that fearing her would be a form of acknowledgement. I believe that's how some evil deities worked in Faerun (e.g. everyone hates Beshaba and Umberlee, but they still make offerings to ward them off.)