Cleric PrC

[Asteron]

My DM has been very busy with his new job and doesn't have a whole lot of time to restat Wrymlord Kharn for RHoD. He had it done, but his computer crashed and the info was lost. To expedite things, we used a tactic used by a mutual DM who occasionally has us build a bad guy for big fights when he is too busy. This sounds odd, but it works for us as we all take it very seriously and build very effective enemies. I volunteered to build Kharn.

This is a gestalt campaign and Kharn will be gestalt to be more effective. I am going with Crusader 11//Cleric ?/X ?, with half-dragon tossed on. I was initially thinking Bone Knight, but it make little to no flavor sense for him to be built this way. We are playing in FR (here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289876) is our campaign journal).

He is listed as a Talon of Tiamat, but that PrC blows harder than a hurricane... I'm not sure what is best on him. Any suggestions?

[Asteron]

Ok, say I took him into Ruby Knight Vindicator on the cleric side, I could still advance Crusader on the other side, correct? RKV (like all ToB PrCs) has it's own maneuver/stance progression, so it doesn't break the gestalt rule against double progressions, correct?

[Vaz]

Dual Progression is badly worded, but it is a DM specific reading. I'd personally include RKV as you gain +10/10 for RKV initiator and +8/10 divine.

Note how no other (with JPA as the exception) PRC advances both? However if you're fudging it as the DM who cares? He's a big bad, and it is a rarity that 2 Swift Actions in place of a Standard are that good a choice. However up to 2nd level it is decent.

[Asteron]

Are you gaining +10/10 initiating though? It's not the same progression as the Crusader. None of the ToB PrC's progress as +1 initating level. As I read it, it comes of as a PrC with a different spellcasting progression, which is permissable in the gestalt rules.

Am I way off base here?

[Nettlekid]

Are you gaining +10/10 initiating though? It's not the same progression as the Crusader. None of the ToB PrC's progress as +1 initating level. As I read it, it comes of as a PrC with a different spellcasting progression, which is permissable in the gestalt rules.

Am I way off base here?

Yeah, you are. All ToB PrCs count full toward initiator levels (except Bloodstorm Blade), as opposed to half like most other classes. It's true that they don't have as fast-paced a maneuver progression as the ToB base classes, but you don't gain maneuvers as a RKV or a JPM, you just add on the Maneuvers Known/Readied and Stances Known to preexisting ToB base classes. So a Crusader 5/Cleric 2/RKV 4 has an IL of 10, and 9 maneuvers known, all as a Crusader (even though it offers non-Crusader disciplines, so you can pick up a 5th level Shadow Hand maneuver at RKV level 4, even though normally Crusader doesn't qualify for it.)

In short, you're making things complicated for yourself in progressing Crusader and RKV at the same time. It would be like progressing Wizard and Master Specialist at the same time, so that you're gaining two levels of casting power ever experience level. It just shouldn't work like that.

Since you're Gestalting, you don't really need to use a dual-progression class like RKV. I suggest a good Cleric PrC, like Bone Knight or Dweomerkeeper, and have a good Crusader PrC like Eternal Blade running alongside it. Or just go straight through with Crusader, since it's not bad.

[Asteron]

Ok, got it.

The problem is that I'm having a hard time finding a good PrC to fit him. Nothing really seems to work. Bone Knight, while awesome, would be completely off base. As would Dweomerkeeper.

What PrC fits a Half-Dragon Hobgoblin Cleric of Tiamat? I'm coming up with nothing... Perhaps I'll take another look at Dracolyte.

[Saintheart]

It's not a PrC, but Paladin of Tyranny, maybe? Get him Battle Blessing and those multiple swift actions per round might be useful.

[Asteron]

I think I just might make a Lawful Evil version of Church Inquisitor... That would seem to fit best.