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Teflonknight
2013-08-28, 01:53 PM
Hey All,
My wife is slowly getting into roleplaying, we have done a couple of short adventures that haven't ended all that well. Seeing as she loves to read distopian fiction (Like Hunger Games for example) I am trying to come up with a setting that is distopian. Unfortunately I haven't got a lot of ideas and I don't want to steal wholesale from the books she has already read.

She will be playing a human ranger that has spent all her life in the wilderness/small farming community, so the distopian aspect will show up mostly later. The first few adventures will be more normal fare.

The only caveat to that is that the circumstance that sets off everything is a result of the "government" looking for her mom. Her mom was in the employ of the ruler and was denied permission to marry the man she fell in love with, as a result they fled and settled in a small rural community bordering on a large forest. After ~20+ years they are discovered and have to flee into the wilderness.

So the first few adventures will be more survival/protection adventures.

tl;dr Looking for ideas to establish a government and a distopian society. What exaclty makes this society distopian.

Thanks in advance.

Segev
2013-08-28, 02:14 PM
In practice, dystopian societies and pre-modern societies really have a lot in common. The dystopias tend to be considered such because they've fallen from "modern" society's standards of freedom and respect for individual rights and worth. This is, I think, part of what's making it hard for you; a traditional kingdom with a corrupt/selfish nobility is dystopian, but doesn't "look" like it because we half-expect that kind of behavior from monarchies and decadant empires.

To capture the feel, you've got a decent start with the "forbidden to marry" bit; the royalty/nobility controls your life, including who you can and cannot marry. The value of human(oid) life should be relatively low, and class/region-based such that it's lower the further from the ruling class you are.

Enforce serfdom harshly: they are supposedly free men and women, but they are forbidden from leaving the plots of land and the nearby village in which they live and work. To amp up the "dystopia" feel, make heavier use of obvious-lie propaganda: they are free, but are forbidden to leave because their lords don't want them to accidentally lose their land. And if they would rather lose their land than stay, they're clearly mentally challenged, as nobody sane would want that, so their lords have to make the choice for the poor retarded serfs who don't know how much worse it is "out there."

Religion should either be banned entirely or should be strictly regulated with the King (or other oligharch) as the official head, and the highest authority to which people may pray. If clerics get spells, they had best be openly crediting the ruler for being the mediary who grants the miracles in the god's name, or they're viewed as trying to turn people to heathen ways and must be put to death "for the good of the subjects' souls."

The virtues of poverty should be publicly extolled. Protecting people from greed and excess, being closer to nature (but never worshipping it, unless druidism is the official state religion), and giving of oneself for the greater good of the state (and its ruling class) are all "good," and any sign of selfishness or greed should be reported. Such people need to be re-educated, or punished for stealing from everybody else. Any question of the wealth and decadance of the ruling class is explained as being so they can do the ever-so-difficult jobs they do on behalf of the little people. Or it's because they're more holy than the serfs, and so are not so tempted into corruption. Those corrupt behaviors? No, no, not at all! That's just right and proper for one of their station. Besides, they CARE so much more than you, you selfish person who covets their comfort. Work harder for others, and you, too, might one day be rewarded for your virtue, like they are.

In all, take the worst of communist Russia and medieval feudalism and the falling Roman empire, and you can probably make a good fantasy dystopia.

JeenLeen
2013-08-28, 03:08 PM
The evil empire in most of the Sword of Truth books (by Terry Goodkind) has an interesting one. I'll put the below in spoilers for any who haven't read the book.

I think it is just called the Imperial Order, led by Japang. I don't mean the D'Haran Empire which is the enemy in the first book, but the empire that shows up from the Old World.

They have an interesting dystopia with a philosophy somewhat similar to what is described by Segev. In one extreme example, a beautiful woman is told to be the plaything of soldiers because she shouldn't be selfish but should support those too weak to control themselves.

Lorsa
2013-08-28, 05:05 PM
Read through the entry of dystopia on wikipedia and that should give you a pretty good idea of what to do with your setting!

DeltaEmil
2013-08-28, 05:27 PM
The past was alterable. The past never had been altered.

The Greater United Maritime Kingdom was at war with the Eastern Empire.

The Greater United Maritime Kingdom had always been at war with the Eastern Empire. The Great United Maritime Kingdom had always been at war with the Eastern Empire Western Empire.

Raum
2013-08-28, 06:23 PM
Looking for ideas to establish a government and a distopian society. Dark Sun, particularly the earlier versions, makes a good fantasy dystopia. Ravenloft works also if you don't mind the horror element.

Getting away from D&D, there's Runepunk for Savage Worlds, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (depending on what you emphasize), the Dying Earth RPG, and perhaps even Earthdawn, Reign, or Glorantha.

From fiction we have Elric's Melnibone, Dying Earth by Vance, Malazan by Erikson & Esselmont...and many more.


What exaclty makes this society distopian.Set your alarm before entering here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Dystopia). You have been warned! ;)

Corvus
2013-08-28, 06:29 PM
For dystopian fantasy, it is hard to go past the Dark Sun setting of Athas.

Morty
2013-08-29, 04:17 AM
If you want to have a dystopia with a fantasy spin, the obvious choice is an evil magocracy. A country ruled by powerful magic users, whose spells control everything, everywhere. If you can't use magic you're nothing, and if you can, you're a pawn in the hands of the sorcerers on top of the totem pole, who don't like competition and might snuff you out just to be on the safe side. The masses labour under the watchful eyes of scrying spells and constructs, any sign of dissent immediately reported to the sorcerous overlords - and every so often, they're dragged out of the streets or their own homes to be sacrificed in rituals or used for experiments. Any sort of organized resistance will be obliterated with a barrage of spells, and their attempts at attacking will bounce off the magicians' protective magic. And so on and so forth.

Obviously, I am exaggerating for effect here, because if the PCs are supposed to interact with the government in a meaningful way, it can't be completely untouchable. But I hope it gets the image across.

Black Jester
2013-08-29, 04:48 AM
There is this RPG called Desolation that is specifically designed around the concept of a fantasy post-apocalyptic survival tale. I don't know much concrete about it (everything I've read about the ubiquity set of rules used for the game sounds like a big warning sign to me, but my tastes aren't usually such a good base for a general consensus), but I have heard quite good things.

Ashtagon
2013-08-29, 04:53 AM
Tippyverse could be a dystopia quite easily, especially if you're not the wizard in charge.

DeltaEmil
2013-08-29, 05:09 AM
Tippyverse could be a dystopia quite easily, especially if you're not the wizard in charge.That would be a nice idea. Because the living standards for everyone in the Tippyverse is far higher and superior than in our real modern world and even lowly peasants can hook up on magical dream machines and never have to fear starvation and thirst, people might fear going outside their citystate, because there could be anything horrible out there. In the Tippyverse citystate, nobody dies except from accidents, murders, and old age (and some not even through those), nobody must fear anything, everything is paradise.

If you break the rules, you are banished to the outside.

Being banished to the outside is a most horrible fate, because you can die there from sickness. You starve. You have no luxury. You do not live in a magical dimension pocket with invisible servants. There are no magical self-resetting unlimited food machines with connected prestidigitation magic flavor that create healthy gruel tasting like beef, chocolate cakes, hamburger, spinach, apple tarts and everything you want it to be. Outside of the citystates, you must walk to the next destination. You cannot teleport. You must fight for resources against degenerated barbarians, who are the descendents of other banished people.

Teflonknight
2013-08-29, 01:43 PM
Thanks for responding.

The definitions have solidified the idea a little more for me. I understood that a dystopian society was a society that looked utopian on the surface, but once you dug down it was all wrong. I think this idea was too light or is more of a way that it is sometimes presented.

The idea of a Magocracy is interesting. I image each community having a sphere mounted on a pole in the center of the village, allowing the rulers to scry, cast spells and teleport through it.

Lorsa
2013-08-29, 04:37 PM
The definitions have solidified the idea a little more for me. I understood that a dystopian society was a society that looked utopian on the surface, but once you dug down it was all wrong. I think this idea was too light or is more of a way that it is sometimes presented.

A dystopian society does not have to look utopian no. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they arise because of a failed and misguided attempt to produce what one person percieves to be utopia. But in its very essence it certainly isn't. Technically many dystopian societies can certainly be utopian for a select few, an elite group of people that is very removed from the rest of the world. So yeah, I hope the definition have cleared it up a bit for you.

TheCountAlucard
2013-08-30, 05:17 AM
Look at the Realm from Exalted for another example of a dystopia; it's a decadent empire that has made satrapies of most of the rest of the known world; it is ruled by an upper class of elementally-powered god-kings, and the local religion (which they've forced upon the rest of the world as well) venerates these so-called Dragon-Blooded as enlightened bodhisattvas, when in reality they're just as, if not moreso, prone to epic rages, decades-long grudges, and unthinking hate as any mortal.

Even the upper-class is a puppet system set up by the immortal Scarlet Empress, created in such a way to encourage infighting that eliminates any threat to her throne, which is defended by a veritable superweapon from the previous age of man (which is why no one outside the Realm can truly rise against her).

TL;DR? An immortal god-empress has pressed her boot-heel on the neck of the world, and given to her descendants the power to do whatever they want.

Of course, things start getting interesting when she goes missing… :smallamused:

Mr Beer
2013-08-30, 02:54 PM
Think about the things that most annoy you about our rulers in modern society and exaggerate them to infuriating proportions in the game world. Bonus points if these are also the things that annoy your player(s).

wolfdreams01
2013-08-30, 03:38 PM
Hey All,
My wife is slowly getting into roleplaying, we have done a couple of short adventures that haven't ended all that well. Seeing as she loves to read distopian fiction (Like Hunger Games for example) I am trying to come up with a setting that is distopian. Unfortunately I haven't got a lot of ideas and I don't want to steal wholesale from the books she has already read.

She will be playing a human ranger that has spent all her life in the wilderness/small farming community, so the distopian aspect will show up mostly later. The first few adventures will be more normal fare.

The only caveat to that is that the circumstance that sets off everything is a result of the "government" looking for her mom. Her mom was in the employ of the ruler and was denied permission to marry the man she fell in love with, as a result they fled and settled in a small rural community bordering on a large forest. After ~20+ years they are discovered and have to flee into the wilderness.

So the first few adventures will be more survival/protection adventures.

tl;dr Looking for ideas to establish a government and a distopian society. What exaclty makes this society distopian.

Thanks in advance.

My current campaign is a dystopia, and I have found that the most effective way to make that come across is to just take modern society and slightly exaggerate the worst aspects of it. For example:

Corporations that are utterly ruthless and profit driven. For example, a necromancer middle-manager who reanimates zombies to serve as customer service. All employees have to sign a "reanimation agreement" as part of their employment contract, stating that they will work a given period of years for the company, even if they happen to die before then. If you want to really drive the metaphor home, the necromancer has removed his own soul because it makes him inefficient (effectively becoming a temporary lich). He keeps his soul in a glass container on his desk next to his paperweight and stress ball, and only puts it back in his body on weekends.

A military-industrial complex that is very aggressive and has its tentacles into everything. Government gets direct kickbacks and profit sharing from taking over smaller countries. (This is sold to the public as "lower taxes" due to the losing country "reimbursing them for their post-invasion peacekeeping assistance.")

Depersonalization of enemies. For example, the elf-goblin conflict could be directly correlated to Israel/Palestine, with the elves occasionally sending aid to goblin civilians and then bombing the hell out of them from wyverns whenever some goblins commit an act of terrorism. (In my campaign, the PCs assassinated a goblin leader in one adventure, delivered aid to starving goblin civilians the next, guarding those food supplies from being taken by goblin warlords, and then went right back to bombing the goblins in the next mission. It had a very "Apocalypse Now" feel.) Monocled dwarves at fancy dinner parties could say things like "Well of course goblins don't have SOULS... that's been scientifically proven!"

Racism. If you're a lizardfolk in a human city, you get stopped and frisked for illegal weapons all the time (since racial profiling is a "necessary evil" to prevent terrorism). And of course, you need to be much more polite to the authorities who do these checks, since they're just looking for an excuse to arrest you.

Celebrity Culture taken to the extreme. Make a celebrity singer an attractive golem who says nothing but ignorant vapid things in interviews (because she LITERALLY does not have a brain), but is widely admired regardless and whom kids try to emulate.

Invasion of Privacy. National security forces are always watching their own citizens, and have the right to use clairvoyance and divination without a warrant - for your own good, of course! If you want to make it especially surreal, spells that can predict the future are used to determine whether a person will commit a crime IN THE FUTURE, and they may be arrested for that future crime, with the result of the divination used as evidence.

In short, using a fantasy dystopia in your game is a perfect opportunity to viciously satirize all the things in the real world that you find shocking or worrisome, simply by exaggerating them until they become less recognizable.

Teflonknight
2013-09-05, 07:28 PM
Thanks again for the responses.

Friday we sat down and decided on her backstory. We fleshed out her parents and in the process she decided that her mother was a seamstress and her father a carpenter. She wants her moms backstory left alone, but she is ok with her dad being something else before she was born. I am thinking either a nobleman whose marriage to her mother was forbidden or that he was a captain of the guard. These were the roles that her mother was to have in my original idea.

Her mother is opposed to her being a "ranger" and her father doesn't like it, but isn't going to stand in her way.

She also has an uncle who is the one that taught her the skills of a ranger. Which has alienated her mother from him. I've been thinking that maybe the problems that the family has are a result of something that he did and her dad was always a carpenter.

As I said earlier I was thinking that the government would be a magocracy, that has scrying orbs in ever village, the problem with that is it doesn't allow them to be a part of the village which is something she wants for her character.

After reading over the posts I do like the idea of a nearby blighted land where the "criminals" are exiled.

tl;dr I'm going to have to come up with an logical/seamless way to incorporate her family circumstance with a dystopian society where her family is trying to hide.

Adoendithas
2013-09-05, 08:33 PM
One word of warning: unless it's intended, don't make the government too blatantly evil. Generally the people in charge of real governments aren't intentionally trying to create a dystopia; it just ends up that way from some people's point of view (generally the people at the bottom).

LibraryOgre
2013-09-05, 09:03 PM
Start by upsetting her sense of the world.

She's lived her life in an isolated community? Mostly surrounded by people like her? Emphasize that her status is an illusion; she's a slave, has always been a slave, and no one will ever take her seriously because she is genetic trash and little different than a well-trained dog. In fantasy, this goes well if they are another race... Elves or Hobgoblins, depending on what you want. Elves let them insult humans on their weaknesses (since most fantasy elven stereotypes are "humans with their weaknesses refined out of them"), whereas hobgoblins work better for taking humans good traits and viewing them as ugliness ("Look at that weak jaw! I bet she can barely crack a chicken bone with that thing!")

I think a great series for this is the (sadly unfinished) Halfblood Chronicles, by Mercedes Lackey and Andre Norton. The overlords are elves... long-lived, highly-magical beings who took over a significant portion of the world and proceeded to wreck it by making everything suit their whims. Humans can live OK lives, even have a little bit of freedom, but they are all slaves wearing slave collars that let their masters control their minds and stifle any psionic powers they may have.

The series goes through a lot of different life experiences... the sex-slaves of the harem, those who were raised in the pens, those who escaped, those who were never conquered... including being the underclass of the upperclass, those elves who have pointy ears and not much else. Most of it is told somewhat from the POV of the dragons who have been hiding from the elves for centuries.

Very much a magical dystopia.

Teflonknight
2013-09-08, 12:50 PM
Ok I think I have come up with the basic societal framework for the campaign. My goal is just to have her involved with a lot of the world creation both as part of adventuring and meta creation.

70 years ago the kingdom was ruled by a benevolent king, the king received a gift in the form of a magical gem known as Nosferatu - The Eternal Gem. The jewel caused his descent into madness and paranoia. He was betrayed and overthrown by one of his sons. He is often referred to as either the Nameless King or the Mad King.

His son, whom I refer to as the Decadent King, has now "ruled " for 40+ years. Most of his power has been abdicated to the Guild Masters in return for great wealth and powerful protective magics.

Guild Masters - Nobility of the kingdom. They impose heavy taxes and use slavery as the default form of punishment. Employ a large numer of spies and informers to ferret out and eliminate any threats to their rule. All community leaders are either sent or appointed by the guilds.

Shaylas' (The PC) family fled the guilds, approximately 26 years ago, and came to this community as a result of actions by her Uncle, the one who has trained her as a ranger. These two things has caused a rift between her mother and uncle.

The adventure will start at this point.

Any thoughts, ideas or constructive criticism would be appreciated. I want this background to be logical and natural so that the campaign doesn't feel forced.

Ravens_cry
2013-09-08, 12:54 PM
For dystopian fantasy, it is hard to go past the Dark Sun setting of Athas.

I admit, I know fairly little about it, but it strikes me as more post-apocalyptic than distopian.

LibraryOgre
2013-09-08, 01:08 PM
I admit, I know fairly little about it, but it strikes me as more post-apocalyptic than distopian.

I'm a bit of a genre nerd; for me, Dark Sun isn't post-apocalyptic because, while it's after an apocalypse, it's centuries after the apocalypse. Aside from a handful of immortals, no one remembers a green and verdant Athas... it's been a blasted wasteland for dwarven generations, not just thri-kreen generations.

So, it goes into "this world sucks" kind of world. It becomes distopian (rather than simply survival-oriented) due to governmental factors... the governments control scarce resources, have immense power, and use the combination of this two to oppress and disempower the people.

Ravens_cry
2013-09-08, 01:13 PM
I'm a bit of a genre nerd; for me, Dark Sun isn't post-apocalyptic because, while it's after an apocalypse, it's centuries after the apocalypse. Aside from a handful of immortals, no one remembers a green and verdant Athas... it's been a blasted wasteland for dwarven generations, not just thri-kreen generations.

So, it goes into "this world sucks" kind of world. It becomes distopian (rather than simply survival-oriented) due to governmental factors... the governments control scarce resources, have immense power, and use the combination of this two to oppress and disempower the people.
Eh, depending on the game, Fallout's verse is hundreds of years after the end, and it's 'post-apocolypic'. Not as long as Dark Sun, but certainly outside of memory of basically any character, with, again, immortal exceptions.
There is regions that are certainly distopian, but not the world as a whole. It's not united enough.

Tim Proctor
2013-09-08, 02:11 PM
In college I took a whole class on Dystopias from a Sociology standpoint, ended up getting 100% in it too. The main points in a Dystopian theme are 1) inequalities in power (resulting in stratification of society and class antagonisms), 2) personal sacrifice for the greater good (generally extreme or pointless) and 3) a (possibly hidden) police state.

After reading this I was reminded of Braveheart and Droit du seigneur (the right of the lord). I would probably have it so the lord wanted to evoke his right on the lady, which caused them to flee. I usually have massive 'racial tensions' in my campaigns with society stratified because of lineage, and have KKK types hanging and burning Elves or Gnomes or whoever you decide (oh and slaves). Forced gladiatorial combat is a great way to get some adventures and fights in while highlighting the 'personal sacrifices' that the society forces on people, same with the slave labor.

Right now I'm working on a campaign that is dystopian, a democracy with massive inequalities economically, a police state, imperialism against other nation states, etc. But the powers that be are actually running things for the benefit/sake of the world. They are creating rampant paranoia and distrust of the government, trained fighters in guerrilla style warfare (both the victims of imperial invasion and the troops to suppress the fighting), etc. because the world is going to be invaded my massive armies of aliens for subjugation and society as a whole wont believe the prophecy that says they will. So its a dystopian society but not one for no reason or personal power but one that is created because of tough choices and the best plan for society as a whole.

Teflonknight
2013-09-08, 06:17 PM
I'm purposely leaving it loose on many of the details, whether there are gladiatorial fights, public executions etc. I am attempting to following to forms of GM technique; 1) Create just the areas of the setting as the PCs come upon them and 2) create the setting in collaboration with the players.

LibraryOgre
2013-09-09, 12:26 AM
Eh, depending on the game, Fallout's verse is hundreds of years after the end, and it's 'post-apocolypic'. Not as long as Dark Sun, but certainly outside of memory of basically any character, with, again, immortal exceptions.
There is regions that are certainly distopian, but not the world as a whole. It's not united enough.

I'd argue the same about Fallout, actually... especially New Vegas, where pretty much everyone is adapted to the world they live in.

Segev
2013-09-09, 09:39 AM
The main points in a Dystopian theme are 1) inequalities in power (resulting in stratification of society and class antagonisms), 2) personal sacrifice for the greater good (generally extreme or pointless) and 3) a (possibly hidden) police state.

I'd like to extend a little on point 2: Not only is the "personal sacrifice" generally extreme or pointless, but what point it has is further tragically diminished by the realization that the "greater good" is really "the good of the greater," where "greater," of course, refers to the ruling class. In their minds, they ARE greater, so their good is greater than that of the lower classes.

For modern visions of dystopia to fit, it shouldn't be openly said that the "greater good" is "the good of the powerful rulers." It should be propagandized such that "the greater good" supposedly IS for the benefit of whoever the poor, stricken underclasses are, because the society as a whole benefits and in so doing benefits them.

It loses the "-topia" feel if it's just an open tyranny wherein the rulers use and abuse the underclass. Part of what makes a "dystopia" is that sense that there's a supposed utopia either in place or just around the corner, and that all this "sacrifice for the greater good" maintains or leads to the best life possible for "everybody else." Without that, with just "oh, only the rulers benefit, and everybody knows it and it's just to be expected because rulers > commoners," it's just a regular tyranny. The dystopia can be re-established in the ruling class if the "common member" of the ruling class has the faint sense of unease that he can't cross the upper eschelons of it, but that everything is great as long as he ignores the plight of the lower- and pretends that he isn't afraid of the highest upper-.

The Oni
2013-09-10, 04:46 AM
Right. The point of dystopia is that it's (in theory) a utopia, and yet it's gone horribly wrong - either by accident, or the distorted vision of its rulers, or by secret machinations.

A dystopian ruler says, "I exist to serve and protect mankind, and it is only MY leadership and control which can serve and protect them. I bring order and stability and safety." Whether his rule has actually brought these things is irrelevant, so long as more than 51% of the population believes it has.

Conversely, the typical iron-fisted tyrant says, "Mankind exists to serve ME, because MY leadership is simply superior." He is concerned with order BECAUSE it is HIS order and his alone, not because he has any fondness for order itself.

JusticeZero
2013-09-10, 03:06 PM
A dystopia need not look utopian on the surface, but they grow from them. Start with a horrible social ill. Now come up with a solution!... Then, deconstruct what life will be like under that solution. Communist governments are dystopic. Marx lived in a time and place where factory owners were becoming increasingly powerful and so the French were starting to sharpen their guillotines again. He came up with a solution that seemed very appealing and seemed plausible. Lenin tried to follow the plan. To put it mildly, it did not work as predicted.

FallenGeek
2013-09-12, 01:03 AM
There is the Midnight setting from Fantasy Flight. The Evil Overlord isn't taking over the world, but has and the PCs have to eke out existence and fight back from the shadows - something that is quite like Hunger Games.

Teflonknight
2013-10-03, 01:50 PM
Just an update:

We've played two sessions and she is asking when are we going to play again.

I went with the idea that THE guild has paid of the king for the power to rule his kingdom. Their expansion for control of the kingdom was halted by a war with a neighbouring country ( Their resources were focus on the war instead of control ), but with the war recently ended they have begun replacing community leaders with their appointed representatives.

Her family is in hiding for a "crime" her uncle commited 20 ish years ago. Her parents never shared that they were in hiding and become somewhat complacent after having no contact with the guild for so long. When their village elder was replaced by a guild rep. who recognised them and ratted them out.

I plan on doing a session write-up, but wanted to let you all know how it was going.
Thanks for all the ideas.