[PF] Barbarian: Greater Beast Totem mandatory? Other pounce sources?

[Thrair]

Ok, I threw out the original post. Too much ranting.

I want to play a Barbarian with the Spirit Totem line. However: Beast Totem and pounce are mechanically head and shoulders above it.

What other ways do I have to get pounce with a Barbarian? Or do I need to suck it up and just get Beast Totem... again... as I do on just about every Barbarian?

[NightbringerGGZ]

You could play a Kitsune and pick up Vulpine Pounce at level 11. It is strictly inferior though as it requires some specific setup.

Alternatively you can go with a mounted build and use a mount that has Pounce.

[Eldonauran]

I read your post before you edited it. :)

My advise, as a DM, is to not care so much about getting pounce. The games I have run, I have never seen a Barbarian fail to contribute to an encounter, even if they lacked the pounce ability.

Before you edited your post, you mentioned you might get Eldritch Heritiage (Orc). If you want to do that, you'll need a decent Charisma and having Spirit Totem won't hurt. Its not optimal. So what? There is nothing wrong with mediocre barbarian (and they still hit really hard).

As a player, I urge you to play what you want. I made a halfling titan mauler barbarian with the spirit totem rage powers, complete with superstition and *gasp* Vital strike chain of feats. Well, that's the plan so far. Character just made it to level two after soloing a moss troll (yeah, that's right. Got a critical confirmation on a hit with an earthbreaker. 1d10+11 x3. I hit for 46 damage at level one. Crazy bastard that halfling ...)

[Hashiel_Dammit]

The Blessing and the Curse of Pathfinder: Fewer sources means fewer ways for poor editing and non-uniform power standards (Im looking at you, DotU) to cause unexpected shennanigans. However, fewer options, with a few clear winners, means that every build looks similar. I have given up ever getting to play a magus (esp in PbP) because of this.

First chance I got, I took a look at the class and tried to figure out my best options. Guess what? Tiefling, Dervish Dance, Spell Specialization: Shocking Grasp...just like every other freaking build. Same with Barbs. I'd talk to your DM, if you don't play a 'no holds barred' approach, let him know that your character is sub-optimal and to go easy for the sake of fun.

Of course, if you've been one-shotting encounters he's spent all night building, then you're going to have a bit of uppence coming to you.

Edit: (to be helpful), I'd echo the mounted suggestion. With a couple of feats, you don't need pounce because your mount is doing all the moving.

[Thrair]

I read your post before you edited it. :)

Then I owe you an apology.



Before you edited your post, you mentioned you might get Eldritch Heritiage (Orc). If you want to do that, you'll need a decent Charisma and having Spirit Totem won't hurt. Its not optimal. So what? There is nothing wrong with mediocre barbarian (and they still hit really hard).

As I said in the original version of the post, MAD for requiring high CHA isn't an issue. DM likes giving generous stats: We were told to roll 4d6, take the 3 highest, and reroll any remaining 1s.

I'm considering going with an intimidate build.


*sighs* I'm just always second-guessing myself, I suppose. If I prioritize themes and or/fun over damage optimization, I always have the nagging doubt that I've left my character gimped. It's probably mostly in my head, I suppose. And the DMs pretty good. Most of the rest of the party doesn't hugely optimize, most of the time. And the guy who's going to be playing an Arcane Trickster isn't close to optimized with the build he worked out. But the player makes up for it in bat**** crazy. First edition veteran. :P

[NightbringerGGZ]

I want to second Eldonauran's opinions. With a Barb you'll be hitting hard no matter what you do. And personally I'm a big fan of the Spirit Totem build, it is fun and flavorful and works really well with a Cornugon Smash build. True you won't be doing as much damage as a pounce build but you'll be consistently dealing high amounts of damage with any Barb build and you'll have a much more flavorful (and imo fun) character.

[avr]

I've pointed this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/shirt-quick-runners) out before. Grab a few and change after each combat (or give it extra uses/day as a custom item) and you've effectively got 1/encounter pounce.

[Eldonauran]

Then I owe you an apology.

No worries. :smallwink:



As I said in the original version of the post, MAD for requiring high CHA isn't an issue. DM likes giving generous stats: We were told to roll 4d6, take the 3 highest, and reroll any remaining 1s.

I'm considering going with an intimidate build.
That is generous and an intimidate build that doesn't need Intimidating prowess is always fun (though you could still take it). If you want to keep all the Barbarian flavor and don't mind sacrificing a little bit ...

Check out the Viking (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/viking) fighter archetype. They get access to Barbarian rage and rage powers, count as a barbarian at viking level -3 and can pick rage powers instead of combat feats at viking level 6. My previously described halfling will be doing this. Barbarian 2 -> Viking 4 -> Barbarian 3-4 -> Viking ++

Did I mention that Vikings get to intimidate as a move action? Its gets better later (swift at level 10, free action at level 18, but still only once per turn). Replaces bravery. And you can pick up a buckler, put up with the puny -1 to hit to keep your AC (Reckless Abandon, who cares about AC, right?) and benefit from a boosted shield AC due to vikings class features.

However you mix and match the two, if you take at least viking 4, you'll end up as an effective 17th level barbarian with a BUNCH of rage powers, or sorely needed combat feats. No damage reduction though...

You can check out the thread I made about this here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290395) It didn't get much (any) response but it can give you an idea on how I would progress the above build.


*sighs* I'm just always second-guessing myself, I suppose. If I prioritize themes and or/fun over damage optimization, I always have the nagging doubt that I've left my character gimped. It's probably mostly in my head, I suppose. And the DMs pretty good. Most of the rest of the party doesn't hugely optimize, most of the time. And the guy who's going to be playing an Arcane Trickster isn't close to optimized with the build he worked out. But the player makes up for it in bat**** crazy. First edition veteran. :P
From that description, you have nothing to worry about if you drop pounce. Go for vital strike to make up for the lack of it. It won't be as optimal, but it will help bridge the gap a little.


I want to second Eldonauran's opinions. With a Barb you'll be hitting hard no matter what you do. And personally I'm a big fan of the Spirit Totem build, it is fun and flavorful and works really well with a Cornugon Smash build. True you won't be doing as much damage as a pounce build but you'll be consistently dealing high amounts of damage with any Barb build and you'll have a much more flavorful (and imo fun) character.
Exactly.

[Ravens_cry]

I've pointed this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/shirt-quick-runners) out before. Grab a few and change after each combat (or give it extra uses/day as a custom item) and you've effectively got 1/encounter pounce.
I wonder . . . it says 'additional' move action. Could this imply that you could only use it if you've already taken a move action that turn? If so, no Pounce, just extra distance.
Given how stingy Pathfinder is with Pounce style effects, it may be even RAI.

[avr]

That's a nasty interpretation (not how I'd read that), but I can't say that ruling would be out of line with other effects in PF.

[Ravens_cry]

That's a nasty interpretation (not how I'd read that), but I can't say that ruling would be out of line with other effects in PF.
That's why I am asking. I can see it been read either way.

[Stone Heart]

Whenever anyone is concerned about being gimped because they did not optimize to the extreme, I like to bring up one of the best characters I ever saw. My buddy rolled up a Commoner to act as a serf to my character (who claimed to be the rightful heir to the Goblin Throne). He only had one arm, he was dumb as a brick, and (I can't stress this enough) was a Commoner.

He did however have an amazing climb and swim skill, and undying loyalty to his King. That loyalty is how he ran through a wall of fire that the evil wizard had conjured up and into the history books. The dm said the Human Wizard was actually supposed to get away, because he didn't expect any of us to willing run through the flames, let alone grapple him (again, a one armed goblin commoner). Without a doubt, he was the greatest character of the campaign.