Wonder if anyone could add to the list

[EdokTheTwitch]

Hello Playground.

I've been working on a game that i am supposed to run in about a month, and i am curious what do you think about the class choices i have decided on, and if you could add to the list.

So, originally i planned on just playing the regular E6, allowing all the races and classes possible, and seeing what my players could come up with. However, after i thought about it for a while, i realized it would simply fail, as my players have problems remembering stuff :smallbiggrin:
Namely, they will most likely want to play casters. And that would be ok, i've never had problems running groups of different tiers, as their knowledge of powergaming is pretty scarce. However, whenever someone plays a mage, i can immediately forget about their spell list for the day, because they will NEVER make it, they simply don't have the patience. And this may not be a problem, but it's bothering me, as it can provide an unfair advantage over the mundanes.

At first i considered just letting them play spontaneous casters, but then i discovered something else i hate about casters: spells per day. It really never made sense to me, how can somebody be limited to, say, two Fly spells today? I know it's a silly issue, but i just felt it can easily break immersion, so i decided to take a different approach. I have chosen seven classes (so far), that have the potential to remain active throughout the entire day (some after buffs by me), and decided that would be the classes i will strongly recommend to the players.

Ok, now to the classes:
1. Warblade (no changes in this one, just a flat-out superior fighter, with fun stuff to do)
2. Crusader (same, only paladin)
3. Truenamer (Note this is E6, so the skill checks shouldn't get out of hand, and i will be using a modified DC of 15+hd of the creature influenced + the level of the Utterance)
4. Shadowcaster (Mysteries changed to per encounter, i don't think there will be problems with this, but i do welcome advice)
5. Warlock (he will most likely remain unchanged, though he could get a couple more invocations?)
6. Rogue (adding the shadow hand discipline from ToB)
7. Dragon Shaman (getting the Setting Sun from ToB)

The Rogue and the Dragon Shaman are getting the disciplines because i felt they would probably be boring in combat as they are in their original form, with not enough options.

I have considered some other classes, but i havent found any that would fit. The Vancian (could be horribly wrong on the name, not sure) system of spellcasting is out, so most of the Complete series is out as well. I have considered Dragonfire Adept, but i'm not sure it would feel different enough from the Warlock to warrant a separate class, and i already have the Dragon Shaman with the breath weapon.

So, tell me guys, what do you think? Are those classes balanced? Are there any others i could add? Any help is appreciated.

[Kuulvheysoon]

This seems like an excellent place to pimp the Totemist and Incarnate (both from Magic of Incarnum).

If you hate Vancian casting, perhaps you'd like psionics better?

[EdokTheTwitch]

Yeah, i have considered Psionics... However, they still have the problem of having to many things to keep track off, As their pp reserve and powers all need to be managed neatly.

Incarnium, on the other hand... Yeah, i guess it could work. The only thing i could have against it is not being able to bind to all the slots by the time the characters reach the capstone level. But i guess that isn't such a big problem, as it can be explained away in fluff...

Thanks for the suggestions :smallsmile:

[Xefas]

If your players can't be arsed to write a spell list, then I think it's questionable whether they'll be able to write a daily soulmeld and chakra bind list, as well as track their allocations of essentia (which can change fairly often).

Although, you can make it a bit simpler and friendlier by doing the following. First, get you some Magic Set Editor (http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/).

Second, make/print cards for each soulmeld that is likely to be relevant to their character (someone who never uses stealth probably won't need the +Hide +MoveSilently soulmelds, for instance). You can even tailor the wording of abilities to something a particular player is more comfortable with (I like stuff like "+X to Fire Resistance, X = Invested Essentia", but that's to personal taste). If you can't print the cards on a nice cardstock, put them in some playing card sleaves with an actual card behind them, to make them less flimsy.

Third, get some pennies and some quarters. At the beginning of an adventuring day, have the player pick a number of cards from their deck equal to the number of soulmelds they can shape, and put them in front of them (and put the other ones away), and take however many pennies as they have essentia. Then, put a quarter on any soulmeld card bound to a chakra. And let them shift their pennies around to represent allocations of essentia.

I've done this before (and something similar with each of the Tome of Battle classes) and it worked wonders.

[Toliudar]

With psionics, there's really just one number to keep track of, the power points. Once they've picked powers, they're relatively static. And if your players can't track one number, then how are they going to track maneuvers readied and used, etc? I say this merely to point out that psionics might in fact be the low-stress 'casting' system that you're looking for.

Oh, and you might consider adding factotum to the list. Again, if they can track inspiration points, they can handle factotum.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Yeah, i have considered Psionics... However, they still have the problem of having to many things to keep track off, As their pp reserve and powers all need to be managed neatly.

Incarnium, on the other hand... Yeah, i guess it could work. The only thing i could have against it is not being able to bind to all the slots by the time the characters reach the capstone level. But i guess that isn't such a big problem, as it can be explained away in fluff...

Thanks for the suggestions :smallsmile:

Hmmm... maybe a series of "capstone" feats could resolve that. Giving access to the next tier after a specific amount of Epic Feats?

[gorfnab]

Binder could be an option, especially in this E6. You could consider just gestating Dragon Shaman with Dragonfire Adept. Also I think White Raven would be more appropriate for Dragon Shaman. Swordsage isn't too bad of a Monk alternative.

[EdokTheTwitch]

Oh, nice ideas, all of them :smallbiggrin:


If your players can't be arsed to write a spell list, then I think it's questionable whether they'll be able to write a daily soulmeld and chakra bind list, as well as track their allocations of essentia (which can change fairly often).

Although, you can make it a bit simpler and friendlier by doing the following. First, get you some Magic Set Editor.

Second, make/print cards for each soulmeld that is likely to be relevant to their character (someone who never uses stealth probably won't need the +Hide +MoveSilently soulmelds, for instance). You can even tailor the wording of abilities to something a particular player is more comfortable with (I like stuff like "+X to Fire Resistance, X = Invested Essentia", but that's to personal taste). If you can't print the cards on a nice cardstock, put them in some playing card sleaves with an actual card behind them, to make them less flimsy.

Third, get some pennies and some quarters. At the beginning of an adventuring day, have the player pick a number of cards from their deck equal to the number of soulmelds they can shape, and put them in front of them (and put the other ones away), and take however many pennies as they have essentia. Then, put a quarter on any soulmeld card bound to a chakra. And let them shift their pennies around to represent allocations of essentia.

I've done this before (and something similar with each of the Tome of Battle classes) and it worked wonders.

I really like the idea of coins for essentia, not sure how it never crossed my mind actually. I don't think the stat cards could be used, that again could prove tricky for organizing. I'm gonna have to check out the MoI a bit closer. The only problem i can see is them getting lost in the options from which they can chose each morning (i know it's 6-7 per slot, but still, they're pretty lazy :smallbiggrin: )


With psionics, there's really just one number to keep track of, the power points. Once they've picked powers, they're relatively static. And if your players can't track one number, then how are they going to track maneuvers readied and used, etc? I say this merely to point out that psionics might in fact be the low-stress 'casting' system that you're looking for.

Oh, and you might consider adding factotum to the list. Again, if they can track inspiration points, they can handle factotum.

Didn't know psionics had static slots... But still, they will be limited by their PP, right? That was the main thing i was trying to avoid, as i want them to feel truly epic, never having to rest for more than a minute. But i do love the idea of PP, thank you for the suggestion.

Factotum... iam somewhat split. I like the idea of inspiration points, but the spells/day are annoying. Could it work if i gave him lower level spells/encounter?


Hmmm... maybe a series of "capstone" feats could resolve that. Giving access to the next tier after a specific amount of Epic Feats?

Would this be balanced? I mean, i love the idea, just not sure how it would scale.


Binder could be an option, especially in this E6. You could consider just gestating Dragon Shaman with Dragonfire Adept. Also I think White Raven would be more appropriate for Dragon Shaman. Swordsage isn't too bad of a Monk alternative.

Binder has the problem of too many options, so i had to rule him out. Gestalt could be interesting, but it could make them back off, it's a pretty foreign concept (so far they've only had expirience with the core classes). I guess that's right about the White Raven, but it would be interfeerig with the Crusader... But that shouldn't be that much of an issue, right? I don't want a monk, it's silly in a D&D setting :smallcool: