Beguiler...dual class??, prestige into???

[Stitches]

I have a level 5 Beguiler (Almost level 6), we are not high powered by any means. I was thinking about adding Swordsage or Warblade to his classes, but wanted to get some advice... words and stuff...

Thanks for any help...

[Nettlekid]

Beguilers like stealth, because you get to creep about and use your Cloaked Casting more. You have a high Int I presume, for your DCs? For that case, might I suggest Rogue or Factotum, good skillmonkeys that can get stealth skills. Rogue can be used to gain some physical damage if you want it, while Factotum is one of the best Int-SAD skillmonkeys around. I assume you're okay with losing caster levels, since you're suggesting Swordsage/Warblade?

[Stitches]

I am okay loosing some caster levels. I was thinking of allocating 8 levels into another class... Mainly to buff up my melee

[Equinox]

To buff up your melee, just use the Arcane Strike feat. You have a lot of spells per day, and dumping a few into melee bonuses is better than taking levels in a class that makes you lose caster levels.

[Nettlekid]

What do you want your character to do? Do you want to focus on your magic, enchanting your foes and only falling back on melee when that doesn't work, or do you want to focus on melee and use your spells to set up good attacks?

If you want to put in eight levels, Factotum is really good because Factotum 8 gets Cunning Surge, spending three Inspiration Points for an extra standard action, which means a second spell or a spell and an attack or what-have-you. Swordsage could also work, for the stealth and versatility.

[Chronos]

Beguiler is pretty good as a package deal. Anything you go to will diminish your skills, your spellcasting, or both. If you're in a situation where a multiclass makes sense, beyond perhaps a 1 or 2-level casting prestige dip, you probably would have been better off with a different base class to begin with.

[Stitches]

Looking for some cool special abilities to go along with my deceptions and sneakiness, and high initiative...

[Nettlekid]

Again, I offer Factotum. Spend Inspiration Points to get Int to attack, damage, or save, 1/day/skill get your Factotum level to a skill, spend for Sneak Attack, gain a small number of Sorc/Wiz spells/day that you can choose anew each day, get to heal twice your Factotum level+Int or Turn Undead a few times/day based on your Wisdom, and at merely level 3 you get Int to all your Str and Dex based skills and checks, which includes initiative. And like I said, you have high Int for being a Beguiler, and it's a great skill character.

[GreenETC]

If you wanted to, you are in a prime situation to take a level of Crusader and go into Jade Phoenix Mage, as it would let you use spells to cover sneakiness while letting you throw them out the window if things go south. Of course, that does slow down your casting by at least 2 levels.

[A_S]

+1 for Factotum; it's an excellent choice.

I do have to say, Beguilers make pretty terrible melee characters. I don't think I can think of a single spell they get that helps them out as a physical combatant. It's possible to make a character who is okay at both melee and Beguiler casting, but they don't really synergize in any way.

[Stitches]

Factotum looks pretty nice.... agreed on different base class. Never played Beguiler before and wanted to do something different. Shoulda done something else different...

[Asheram]

You know... You Are almost at the point for the Shadowcraft Mage (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872354/Shadowcraft_Mage_Handbook) to come into play *edit* If you can manage to get the GM to waive the Gnome requirements.

It won't give you melee but summons are... well, summons.

[Stitches]

Ash - you know I was thinking about going that route, and factotum now, but my only problem is our DM is trying a new house rule where we have to find the books we can use and take from, in game. Really sucks and I don't like it, but hey, it's different from the norm. Example. I want to take skill tricks from the complete scoundrel. I need to find the Complete Scoundrel, in game, read it, then I can use it. :smallfurious:

[A_S]

Factotum looks pretty nice.... agreed on different base class. Never played Beguiler before and wanted to do something different. Shoulda done something else different...
I mean, I don't wanna scare you off of Beguiler...they're one of my favorite classes, and they're great at what they do. What they do just isn't melee.

[Person_Man]

From a pure optimization standpoint, Spells > almost everything else in D&D. So delaying your access to higher level spells will usually be less optimal then most other choices, especially in the long run. So I would suggest just sticking with strait Beguiler, or going Beguiler 5/Prestige Class that fully progresses your spells X.

Having said that, if you don't anticipate your campaign going on for that long, then a level or two of anything added on top of Beguiler won't kill your build entirely.

Unlike other Playgrounders though, I would not suggest Factotum, since most of the real benefits don't kick in until Factotum 3, 8, or higher levels. Warblade (maneuvers) or Incarnate (soulmelds) would probably be a more optimal choice for "more stuff that's not spells" since they scale partially on hit dice. Warblade for some useful stances and strike, Incarnate for defenses and Skills.

[Equinox]

Prestige-class-wise, look at Abjurant Champion. It has full BAB, d10 hit die, and full casting progression. A Beguiler qualifies almost out of the box, just need to pick up Combat Casting. A 1-level dip of Mindbender is great too. Only prereqs are skills which you want to take anyway.

[Waker]

Unlike other Playgrounders though, I would not suggest Factotum, since most of the real benefits don't kick in until Factotum 3, 8, or higher levels. Warblade (maneuvers) or Incarnate (soulmelds) would probably be a more optimal choice for "more stuff that's not spells" since they scale partially on hit dice. Warblade for some useful stances and strike, Incarnate for defenses and Skills.
What this man says is true. Beguilers don't do the melee combat thing all that well. You would be better off dipping one of the initiator classes from ToB or Incarnate/Totemist from MoI. Both subsystems offer dual-progression classes in the form of Jade Phoenix Mage or Soulcaster.
You could also consider going Warlock/Eldritch Theurge too I suppose. Doing that would give you Eldritch Blast and invocations to augment your combat abilities.

[Gnome Alone]

Stitches--are you saying that you have to track down splatbooks IN CHARACTER?! Like, "Good morrow, shopkeep, hast thou Ye Olde Tome of Battle?"

Yeesh, by that point might as well just have D&D characters meet in a tavern and start playing D&D in game.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Beguiler is one of the best and funnest classes in the game if you accept it for what it is and play it correctly. The spell list is a toolbox and has exactly the right thing for nearly any situation you'll ever come across. In combat it uses crowd controls and debuffs (Color Spray, Glitterdust, Slow, Confusion, Solid Fog), plus buffing the party with Haste and buffing itself for survivability. You also get tons of illusions for amazing tricks (Silent Image to make a floor appear where there's a pit, or to make a hiding place (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0892.html)), and tons of enchantments for manipulating noncombat encounters, or turning opponents against each other. Plus all the skills of a Rogue and those of a Wizard. It's not a fighting class, and it's not suitable for an arcane gish because it doesn't get the right spells. Just accept it for what it is and you'll like it a lot more.

If you find yourself in combat with very little to do (don't want to use up those spells unless you have to), you're proficient with Rogue weapons including Shortbows, and you can get Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemist's Fire, and anything else from Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101). You can use Wands, and even get UMD to use wands of non-Beguiler spells like Web. Well placed crowd controls and debuffs will almost trivialize most encounters, your character doesn't need to be good at melee if you stick to what he's already good at and the rest of your party can just clean up.

[Malroth]

Arcane Disciple Death to get yourself a squad of disposable meatwalls that can smash anything that is immune to your mind control spells.

[A_S]

Yeesh, by that point might as well just have D&D characters meet in a tavern and start playing D&D in game.
No recursing!

[gorfnab]

You could take a level of Rogue and then go into Unseen Seer prestige class. This will get you some nice divination spells (like Hunters Eye) and some decent sneak attack damage.

[nedz]

Beguilers don't really do damage, however.

A 1 level dip in Rogue, Spellthief or any other class which gives you 1d6 sneak is good for Unseen Seer (CMage) which will give you 6+ skills, full spell casting and +4d6 sneak.

Also the Arcane Disciple feat would allow you to access one domain. It is quite easy to pick up spells such as Divine Power which can boost your cobat potential. No reason you can't take this feat multiple times.

[Malroth]

or pair it with a reserve feat for all day blasting that can stack with your sneak attacks

[Stitches]

Stitches--are you saying that you have to track down splatbooks IN CHARACTER?! Like, "Good morrow, shopkeep, hast thou Ye Olde Tome of Battle?"

Yeesh, by that point might as well just have D&D characters meet in a tavern and start playing D&D in game.

CORRECT! It's a drag.

[Feytalist]

How about... Nightmare Spinner? Keeps the Beguiler doing what he's best at, plus a few extra thingies to keep things interesting. Plus playing around with fear stacking is an interesting exercise at the least.