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hitogoroshi
2006-12-19, 09:20 PM
How is there not a thread for this yet?!
...or at least, not an active thread.
Personally, I think I'm reacting in a way The Giant anticipated: I want to do what's he doing, too. I pride myself on avoiding many of the cliche elements of things like this, and making a campaign setting half as great as The World makes me all bubbly inside. :)
[EDIT: And I must say, it seems The Giant has read Guns, Germs, and Steel as well.]

Need_A_Life
2006-12-27, 11:05 AM
I must admit that the articles are more than just a little good and I have actually printed the whole thing (along with other articles on the same topic) to help me build my own setting.

The thing I liked most was the Geography part, though, I never was good at drawing convincing maps (probably doesn't help that I use paint, now does it?)

Of course, I tried following the old mantra "whatever you do, always make THREE changes from anything you've seen before", so it's not enough like Rich's conceptual world to be mistaken for it :wink:

If you're interested, I have a link: Selarin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10917201]Selarin)

Also, get these articles back up and running! Please?

pestilenceawaits
2006-12-29, 05:04 PM
I like them as well. I am a geographer in RL and love the idea of using those skills to create a fantasy world were the environment and cultures are also influenced by magic.

Ironfist Orc
2007-01-12, 06:42 PM
I just read all ten, and am looking forward to the rest of the series. It's a shame that, inferring from the lack of threads, that more folk aren't reading these. (Or that the discussion threads aren't in the logical place, The Gaming Articles area...) I'd have hoped that each article would have its own thread (ala each episode of OotS.) [Edit: Aha, I see some of the threads have fallen into the mists of time. I'll have to aviod Threadamancy if I see anything commentable.]

Not serious nit-pick: I see the Inuit-type culture has, in their own vernacular, an apostrophe in their name ...

Fronko
2007-01-15, 11:04 AM
Not serious nit-pick: I see the Inuit-type culture has, in their own vernacular, an apostrophe in their name ...

Yeah, thats the first thing I noticed about them. However, the giant seems to be enjoying to break any rules he comes across, so why would he stop on his own rules? ;)

Perhaps breaking the rules is inappropriately formulated. Break with any cliches/stereotypes fits better. Anyway, I am sur, you get my point. :)

Scudboy
2007-01-16, 03:13 PM
I find myself wondering about the further story behind Garrick the Forger.

Particularly: What happened to his other sons? And if Royce was such a weakling, why didn't more of them break off from the empire or one of them take over from him? Did they all die in his endless wars? Were they all killed off by Royce, who while quiet was sneaky enough to see to his own succession? Was he just infertile, so only Royce (and maybe one or two others) actually survived to adulthood? Or was he as gay as Richard the Lionhearted (true fact), with the same practical results?

Fun reading. How often is it updated?

hitogoroshi
2007-01-20, 01:16 AM
Maybe Garrick only had one kid? That'd certainly make sense. I mean, hes spending his whole life winning wars, maybe he was just too busy to bother reproducing multiple times.

Maltrich
2007-01-20, 02:14 AM
About the whole apostrophes-in-names thing: what are they for, anyway? The obviously don't represent letters that have been left out (who could tell?), so the only spelling reason I could think of to have them is to represent a sound not occurring in the English language.

This led me to trying to pronounce them as things like clicks or unvoiced glottal stops, which usually just causes me to choke. Does anyone know who started the trend, and what the actual justification was?

InaVegt
2007-01-20, 04:55 AM
Well, dutch has a sound not appearing in the english language, sounds a bit like clearing your throat, only much softer.

And if I pronounce it like dutch (spelled this way to keep the english sounds intact) ‘Ajoe Toen-gie’, you get a pretty pronouncable result which still sounds pretty foreign.

Scudboy
2007-01-23, 01:37 PM
Maybe Garrick only had one kid? That'd certainly make sense. I mean, hes spending his whole life winning wars, maybe he was just too busy to bother reproducing multiple times.

That's what winter is for, dude. (Plus, have you not heard of the phrase "camp followers"? Though offspring produced in that matter would not be legitimate (assuming Western European-style marriage rules, which seem to be in evidence based on the social backdrop, and which in any case make sense barring magical paternity-testing possibilities, since otherwise inheritance becomes very complicated indeed among the upper classes...)

Maxymiuk
2007-01-30, 06:06 AM
About the whole apostrophes-in-names thing: what are they for, anyway? The obviously don't represent letters that have been left out (who could tell?), so the only spelling reason I could think of to have them is to represent a sound not occurring in the English language.

This led me to trying to pronounce them as things like clicks or unvoiced glottal stops, which usually just causes me to choke. Does anyone know who started the trend, and what the actual justification was?

My personal theory is that it's supposed to represent a "hard sign" from the cyrylic alphabet, which in languages such as Russian or Belarussian indicates that the preceding consonant gets a "hard" pronunciation even if it's followed by a vowel.

To port it over to the latin alphabet, it's the difference between pronouncing Drizz't as "Drizeet" (no hard sign) and "Driz-t" (hard sign).

Although I once did read a theory that it may also indicate a sort of clicking sound in the back of your throat, so in this case "Driz-k-t" although when I actually try to pronounce that, I choke.

Nazzo, the 102nd
2007-01-31, 12:53 PM
I'd like to add my voice to those who find these articles awesome. I think we need more of them. I don't know, maybe The Giant is really busy.

I liked this world. I may someday run a campaign in this setting.

I also created a world once, and ran two games on it. But it lacks this background history and politics. There are just 14 cities, plains, mountains and common geography. Nothing different. But I like it. :smallbiggrin:

White Blade
2007-02-01, 02:20 PM
I liked it, and it has been emblazoned upon me ever since. I'd really like to see the rest of the series played out, but I'm fairly sure Rich has better things to do. At least in the opinions of the masses of OOTS fans who haven't read the articles.

PirateMonk
2007-02-04, 12:08 PM
With the frequency of comics, writing another will be tricky.


My personal theory is that it's supposed to represent a "hard sign" from the cyrylic alphabet, which in languages such as Russian or Belarussian indicates that the preceding consonant gets a "hard" pronunciation even if it's followed by a vowel.

To port it over to the latin alphabet, it's the difference between pronouncing Drizz't as "Drizeet" (no hard sign) and "Driz-t" (hard sign).

Although I once did read a theory that it may also indicate a sort of clicking sound in the back of your throat, so in this case "Driz-k-t" although when I actually try to pronounce that, I choke.

Why spell it Drizz't at all, though?

Praesidium
2007-02-13, 03:56 PM
My personal theory is that it's supposed to represent a "hard sign" from the cyrylic alphabet, which in languages such as Russian or Belarussian indicates that the preceding consonant gets a "hard" pronunciation even if it's followed by a vowel.

To port it over to the latin alphabet, it's the difference between pronouncing Drizz't as "Drizeet" (no hard sign) and "Driz-t" (hard sign).

Although I once did read a theory that it may also indicate a sort of clicking sound in the back of your throat, so in this case "Driz-k-t" although when I actually try to pronounce that, I choke.

While I believe Drizz't is pronounced with some form of close vowel between the z and t, the apostrophe is just an example of an attempt to make it look exotic, actual apostrophes as letters in Latin orthography are generally glottal stops, which is essentially the sound centered in the word "uh-oh" (to use wikipedia's example), however, Inuit orthography doesn't use apostrophes to show glottal stops, in the few dialects that use them it's generally a 'q'. Hawaian, however, uses apostrophes to represent glottal stops, as does Arabic's Latin orthography.

Cobra
2007-02-20, 01:52 AM
I sure wish the Giant would get around to finishing up his world building. Personally I think its one of the most interesting sections of the site.

Fireball.Man.Guy.
2007-02-20, 04:21 PM
I think apostrophes represent pauses. Thus, you chand Drizz't from Drissed in 1 sylable and Driz-it.

karmuno
2007-02-21, 09:11 PM
Those articles truly inspired me to start creating a world of my own (key word "start"). While it wasn't my first attempt, it seemed the most focused and by far the most interesting fantasy setting I've made (nevermind the fact that it's, you know, unfinished).

It would be awesome if he brought back the series. But we'd need some object of infinite power to make that dream a reality. Some artifact whose properties make it difficult, nay, impossible, to ignore. We need... a petition!

Phoenix Talion
2007-02-21, 10:40 PM
I like the world articles, they helped me a lot, especially with maps, which are my weak point.

Also, I have to say it. There is no apostrophe in Drizzt.

kimnor2
2007-02-28, 05:51 PM
I sure wish the Giant would get around to finishing up his world building. Personally I think its one of the most interesting sections of the site.

I second that.

DraPrime
2007-03-09, 02:41 AM
I second that.

I third it.

TheNovak
2007-03-10, 07:48 PM
Fourthed. It's really, really good stuff, Giant; I'd like to see some of your adaptations from the d20 Modern system, too.

magnar
2007-03-11, 05:23 PM
Fifthed (quintled?). I love these articles. Great stuff. I've even been inspired to try making a world of my own.

Raveler1
2007-03-16, 10:13 AM
The other possibility regarding apostrophes is that they're there to indicate that there are two consonants that are not normally pronounced together in english, but are in this word. So Drizz't could be spelled "Drizzt" (which is EXTREMELY hard to say if you use the German pronounciation of z, "ts"). I think this is the likeliest explanation in the case of Drizz't, but in many words I know it also represents the glottal stop.

I ran across this usage in a Tom Swift book, waaaay back in the day. Tom meets an alien named M'na, who he calls "Mina" because he can't prounounce her name otherwise. Likewise, her first attempts at his name are "T'm" and "T''M", which sounds much more like Tim than Tom. [/annecdote]

i.jason
2007-03-17, 11:26 AM
Indeed. After the comics themselves, the world building and enemy building workshops are my favorite things about the site.

PirateMonk
2007-03-17, 11:48 AM
The other possibility regarding apostrophes is that they're there to indicate that there are two consonants that are not normally pronounced together in english, but are in this word. So Drizz't could be spelled "Drizzt" (which is EXTREMELY hard to say if you use the German pronounciation of z, "ts"). I think this is the likeliest explanation in the case of Drizz't, but in many words I know it also represents the glottal stop.

It is spelled Drizzt. According to someone over on gaming, clone players added the apostrophe to make it seem more exotic, and since more people have encountered or heard about the clones than have read the books, it's used much too often.

scurvy_pirate43
2007-03-17, 07:29 PM
I've been reading the comic for months now and only just now decided to read about the world. I read the first article and then found myself unable to stop reading. This is great stuff. When was the last one written?

mrocktor
2007-03-21, 02:58 PM
Far too long ago! <lapses into uncontrollable shaking>

allahsavatar
2007-04-06, 01:17 PM
Not to make another "Me too" post, but maybe if enough people comment on how interesting and helpful these articles are, he might come back to them. Then again, maybe he's just too busy with other things.

hitogoroshi
2007-04-07, 01:16 PM
Yeah seriously what the heck rich.

Vaynor
2007-04-12, 01:31 AM
Not to make another "Me too" post, but maybe if enough people comment on how interesting and helpful these articles are, he might come back to them. Then again, maybe he's just too busy with other things.

Most likely that'll just be annoying.


Yeah seriously what the heck rich.

That really doesn't help. He does not have to make these articles. He does it for your enjoyment, and you shouldn't get mad at him for not updating in a while. :smallmad:

Jack Mann
2007-04-12, 12:09 PM
So, he's going to be annoyed if people talk about the articles? The articles that are, in theory, the entire purpose of this site? The articles that the comic was created to promote? Those articles?

Interesting theory. This is based on..?

Granted, whining about the lack of articles might annoy Rich, but simply talking about them (especially in a positive light) probably isn't going to make him very angry. But hey, I could be wrong.

Ironfist Orc
2007-04-12, 01:35 PM
Well, since it looks like the Giant was involved in a super-secret project that he has now brought to light (TOotS: Start of Darkness,) that would explain why he has been taking a hiatus from "The World" articles.

<crosses fingers, and hopes that the Giant will now have time to revive the World.>

hitogoroshi
2007-04-12, 07:38 PM
Most likely that'll just be annoying.



That really doesn't help. He does not have to make these articles. He does it for your enjoyment, and you shouldn't get mad at him for not updating in a while. :smallmad:
I was being sarcastic. Hence the lack of puncuation.
Haven't you ever read dinosaur comics :smalltongue:

Zedd
2007-04-13, 01:01 AM
Fifthed (quintled?). I love these articles. Great stuff. I've even been inspired to try making a world of my own.

If we go 'quintled', next time the original poster will be 'Hexed'.

Will he have to wait to be 'Epted' until the curse is off?

Cade Shadow
2007-04-15, 07:56 AM
Not serious nit-pick: I see the Inuit-type culture has, in their own vernacular, an apostrophe in their name ...

I don't think that he expects his players to remember that name or he wants to make it directly confusing. That way he has an excuse to call them the Icemen.

Sesquedoodle
2007-04-15, 01:50 PM
I LOVE the World articles. I started reading them before I began to DM, and found them very useful for the worldbuilding for my novel. :)
I'd love it if Rich were to continue them some day.

PirateMonk
2007-04-15, 08:00 PM
About the whole apostrophes-in-names thing: what are they for, anyway? The obviously don't represent letters that have been left out (who could tell?), so the only spelling reason I could think of to have them is to represent a sound not occurring in the English language.

This led me to trying to pronounce them as things like clicks or unvoiced glottal stops, which usually just causes me to choke. Does anyone know who started the trend, and what the actual justification was?

According to The Tough Guide to Fantasy Land, by Diana Wynne Jones, they exist because letters have been taken out of the true name to prevent it from being used against the subject. If you believe that, here's some pronunciation theories:

-Ignore the apostrophe and pronounce the word normally

-Pause with a syllable break in the apostrophe

-Pronounce the apostrophe with a clicking noise

So, nothing new.

The_Hunting_Enemy
2007-04-19, 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by PirateMonk http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2203250#post2203250)
According to The Tough Guide to Fantasy Land, by Diana Wynne Jones, they exist because letters have been taken out of the true name to prevent it from being used against the subject. If you believe that, here's some pronunciation theories:

-Ignore the apostrophe and pronounce the word normally

-Pause with a syllable break in the apostrophe

-Pronounce the apostrophe with a clicking noise

So, nothing new.


I always figured it signalled a slight pause, without being a new word in itself. Like Bo'sun from Pirates of the Carribean. It's used in Jamaica I think. Probably wrong.

Back on topic, I get an interesting read outta these world things. Is there a map of the OotS world somewhere?

Jack Mann
2007-04-20, 12:01 AM
An apostrophe normally represents either a truncated word (don't, bo'sun, and others) or else a glottal stop.

Vaynor
2007-04-21, 08:21 PM
So, he's going to be annoyed if people talk about the articles? The articles that are, in theory, the entire purpose of this site? The articles that the comic was created to promote? Those articles?

Interesting theory. This is based on..?

Granted, whining about the lack of articles might annoy Rich, but simply talking about them (especially in a positive light) probably isn't going to make him very angry. But hey, I could be wrong.

I was thinking that he would be more annoyed at people bugging him for more.


I was being sarcastic. Hence the lack of puncuation.
Haven't you ever read dinosaur comics :smalltongue:

No, never read them. And I apologize.

DamnedIrishman
2007-04-25, 04:26 PM
The other possibility regarding apostrophes is that they're there to indicate that there are two consonants that are not normally pronounced together in english, but are in this word. So Drizz't could be spelled "Drizzt" (which is EXTREMELY hard to say if you use the German pronounciation of z, "ts"). I think this is the likeliest explanation in the case of Drizz't, but in many words I know it also represents the glottal stop.


Personally, I think it's Drizz't purely because putting an apostrophe makes it:

a) more unusual
b) more fantasyesque

Yes, I made up fantasyesque, but it can be basically translated as the theme of the sort of gamebox which has the following on the back:

"You, hero, be the first to explore the lost caves of Squ'rrlolx! Defeat the dreaded Mph'omg'zin and rescue the princess from the clutches of its evil master, Vrrrl'x! Travel to the lost city of Xioas'rofl and confront the Chief Grand Arch Demon Sorceror King, J'ghtyy'mon'lmao'kecxx of the H'grk'ntoos!"

As for the World articles, they're brilliant. So that's hexed, septupled, octed or wherever it's got two.

MoelVermillion
2007-04-26, 08:18 AM
I've read i think all the gaming articles on this site and i must say that the classes and NPCs all had an awesome sense of flavour. The rule tweaks feats and the rest were also superb. However the thing that really struck me was the world articles, they are innovative and informative the world that has been created seems soild and with a good history and the tips it gives to helping to make your own world are extremely useful.

So I say Kudos to you Giant.

Attilargh
2007-04-30, 06:51 AM
Personally, I think it's Drizz't purely because putting an apostrophe makes it:
c) wrong (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20010117d).

That is, if you were referring to the archetypal Chaotic Good Dual-Wielding Drow Ranger With A Feline Animal Companion instead of some inferior clone.

For the record, I like the name "Ingeloakastimizilian". Needs a couple of apostrophes, though.

The_Hunting_Enemy
2007-05-02, 04:25 AM
If you had a character with that name in one of my fried's DnD sessions, we'd be constantly stopping to slowly pronounce it right. Except Josh. He'd just call him "That guy with the utterly unprenouncible name".

Anyways, is there a map of the OotS world anywhere? I would love to see it if there was.

Cade Shadow
2007-05-02, 06:48 PM
About the whole apostrophes-in-names thing: what are they for, anyway? The obviously don't represent letters that have been left out (who could tell?), so the only spelling reason I could think of to have them is to represent a sound not occurring in the English language.

This led me to trying to pronounce them as things like clicks or unvoiced glottal stops, which usually just causes me to choke. Does anyone know who started the trend, and what the actual justification was?

I use it like a break that is shorter than two words but longer than a hyphen

or an alternative to hyphens

Greek used a semi-apostrophe. (i say semi because i don't remember what they called it) It turns an e-like sound into an H-like sound.

Or maybe its Latin.... possibly both.

I have hexed it (the petition)

EricDerKonig
2007-05-07, 02:23 AM
The articles are great. I'm hoping Rich will keep writing them, even if irregularly.
One idea I read in a vaguely similar article (On Thud and Blunder (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/thud.htm), focusing on fantasy writing rather than gaming) that I've always been attracted to is getting away from the medieval Europe backdrop entirely, or at least mostly. India especially has a rich history well suited for fantasy gaming - just read the Mahabharata.

Since I don't play D&D, I'd pretty much have to rely on computer game tools such as Neverwinter Nights to build any fantasy world, which is pretty limiting. I am hoping to start creating a NWN2 module this summer with a setting based on the Incan Empire, since I'm a little more familiar with that than with India. Plus, I've been inspired by a recent trip to Machu Picchu.
I've only got vague ideas so far, but I do know I'll be placing the artic areas in the south. That alone breaks with nearly all other existing fantasy worlds :smallwink:

Rowanomicon
2007-05-08, 11:20 PM
I too much enjoyed The Wold articles and I too was inspired to build my own world. However my world stopped being built because The World stopped being built.
This was about a year and ahalf ago. My plan (along with a friend of mine) was to build our world step by step as The Giant built The World, but no more article came. :'(
I would be extremely happy if The Giant continued with The World so colour me added to the petition.

UndeadJames
2007-05-10, 12:37 PM
As far as I'm aware, the apostrophe in the erroneous spelling Drizz't is due to the glottal stop at the end of the name, which may or may not be the intended pronouciation. So adding that apostrophe stops people saying "drizzzzt", and say "driz-uht".

I can't wait for the next instalment of The World, I'm just starting out designing my own campaign world, and while I'm taking the different approach of starting with one town and building out, Rich's efforts have been a great insight into how to build an effective campaign world. You rock Rich! :smallbiggrin:

PirateMonk
2007-05-12, 04:48 PM
As far as I'm aware, the apostrophe in the erroneous spelling Drizz't is due to the glottal stop at the end of the name, which may or may not be the intended pronouciation. So adding that apostrophe stops people saying "drizzzzt", and say "driz-uht".

According to the introduction of the Legend edition Crystal Shard, Drizzr is one syllable.

UndeadJames
2007-05-13, 04:10 PM
According to the introduction of the Legend edition Crystal Shard, Drizzr is one syllable.

Which is what I was aiming at...the erroneous spelling breaks "drizzt" into two syllables.

MadMadMad
2007-05-14, 10:41 PM
I just had to chime in on the apostrophe issue, as it's been my pet issue for years. Mostly because I'm a linguist... :smalltongue:

The problem with letters and punctuation is that they generally represent sounds and grammar. I was shocked the first time I learned that there were letters that don't exist in English (Arabic has 9!). And the English alphabet is not capable of neatly handling all these sounds.

So yes, sometimes the apostrophe is used as a letter to represent a sound that doesn't exist in English. In the real world, any number of symbols can fulfill this purpose. I've seen the names of some African tribes written as !Gwi and ?osa (more commonly Xhosa), to represent non-English letters.

Other times it's used to imply a pause or omission, like a hyphen or dash.

The problem is, most gamers just use the apostrophe to make words look exotic - kinda like how Xs are generally overused - without considering what it actually means.

So it short, it may or may not have some meaning in any particular context, and there's no way to know. This is why I never use the apostrophe, and no doubt why the Giant advised against it, too. If you're just trying to make something look exotic, why not try "Drizz!t" for a change? :smallbiggrin:

The World posts are great, BTW! I want more!

Jack Mann
2007-05-15, 01:06 AM
I think you mean sounds, or possibly phonemes that don't exist in the English language. The arabic alphabet has quite a few letters we don't generally use to represent English. Some of these represent sounds not used in English.

Other than that, spot on.

MadMadMad
2007-05-15, 03:57 PM
I think you mean sounds, or possibly phonemes that don't exist in the English language. The arabic alphabet has quite a few letters we don't generally use to represent English. Some of these represent sounds not used in English.

Other than that, spot on. :smallsmile:

Phonemes are exactly what I mean. I was just trying to keep it simple.

TheSaylesMan
2007-05-18, 12:31 PM
Hey everybody,

Just signed up to say how much I love the world that is being created and would very much like to see it continue. I do not know how long it has been since the last article was posted, however, so I don't know if any further plans have been discontinued.

Here's hoping for it to continue, as I would like to see it fleshed out some more.

B!shop
2007-05-23, 10:51 AM
I'm trying to build up a World for my campaign and for my novels.
I've found the World articles accidentally, and they are really good.
I read them with fascination, they help me a lot!

Hope the Giant will found some time to add more :smallsmile:

Xykon_Fan
2007-05-28, 11:36 AM
Hmmm...if Rich needs some backstory as to why the dude had three wives, say that the first died in childbirth, the second died about a year after of some really bad disease, and the last one lives on. It explains the kid's temperaments to some degree too. The first one...no love, the second one...very little love, the last one...well-adjusted home life. Not saying it's an excuse, but it does explain a little bit. Maybe the father took it out on the first-born a little bit because he really loved that wife. That, in addition to his clubfoot, could create someone with serious anger issues.

I also just read all the articles the other day and I loved it. They are very well done and I hope he starts making them again soon.

drawingfreak
2007-05-29, 11:30 PM
Im loving these articles. They are such a huge help.