Tome of Magic: Karsite.

[Xuldarinar]

To those unfamiliar, karsites are humans (half elves.. half orc.. occasionally orcs and elves with human blood.. ect.) descended of Karsus. Bonuses to constitution and charisma, damage reduction, spell resistance, melee attacks can drain magic, healing when spells fail against them, inability to cast arcane or divine spells, proficiency with up to medium armor and martial weapon, an LA of +2, and they keep their human traits (arguably this is replaced by the traits of what ever other race you have the karsite born to.)

Now, the question. Can anyone think of any good applications for this race?

[Fyermind]

Psionics.

In a low op/low tier game they could be pretty good counters to casters especially as ToB characters, Binders, or Warlocks. Warlocks get special note for being Cha based and having dispelling to improve their counter-casting. In terms of making them worth their level adjustment, I'm not sure.

[Psyren]

Psionics.

Yep. They can explicitly use psionics even though magic is forbidden.

They can also use Pact Magic and likely Incarnum.

[Blackhawk748]

That seems like a lot of nice stuff for +2 LA, obviously if its all low its not as nice but w/e. I recommend using them as a Rogue/Assassin since nuking them is definitely harder id think they would make good mage killers.

[herrhauptmann]

That seems like a lot of nice stuff for +2 LA, obviously if its all low its not as nice but w/e. I recommend using them as a Rogue/Assassin since nuking them is definitely harder id think they would make good mage killers.

They do make good magekillers. Particularly if you make them psionic.
If you want to do non-psionic character, I'd recommend taking the Quor-bred template from SoS as well. They'll still be good magekillers, but with the stipulation that it's hard to be a magekiller without spells/powers of your own.

Oddly, the karsite gets to use scrolls/wands via UMD, but the quor-bred can never use the psionic equivalent, not even with Use Universal Device (or whatever their UMD is called)

[Xuldarinar]

Alright. good advice thus far. Psionics does seem optimal, as do soulmelds.


Now, an odd question. What race do you think makes the best Karsite?

While technically not a template race, it is legal to give karsite racials to any race that is part human or can mix with humans (thus the character has a human in their ancestry, and can then tie back to Karsus). Basicly making karsite a +2 LA template that defaults to being applied to standard humans. So, all that would change when reflecting 'other races of karsite', one would swap Human Traits for X Traits (X being the race selected).

[Blackhawk748]

Alright. good advice thus far. Psionics does seem optimal, as do soulmelds.


Now, an odd question. What race do you think makes the best Karsite?

While technically not a template race, it is legal to give karsite racials to any race that is part human or can mix with humans (thus the character has a human in their ancestry, and can then tie back to Karsus). Basicly making karsite a +2 LA template that defaults to being applied to standard humans. So, all that would change when reflecting 'other races of karsite', one would swap Human Traits for X Traits (X being the race selected).

I just thought of a Half Ogre Karsite. Thats freakin scary. Make him a barbarian/frenzied berserker maybe occult slayer, not sure how good it is but it works fluff wise.

[Xuldarinar]

I just thought of a Half Ogre Karsite. Thats freakin scary. Make him a barbarian/frenzied berserker maybe occult slayer, not sure how good it is but it works fluff wise.

I honestly agree. Maybe a DM should have such a thing optimized and on back-up if their spellcaster(s) need taken down a notch.

[Tokiko Mima]

When combined with Dragonfire Adept class, they make fantastic tanks, due to the class needing everything the race is granting. Medium armor and martial weapons are awesome when your class doesn't grant them, and you need to be 30' away or less from enemies. Con focus is also good, and you Cha bonus will be handy too, especially if you plan to abuse the humanoid shape invocation. And while DR/magic is a little lame, at least you have it at low levels when it means something.

Additionally, because you are humanoid type and have a listed racial armor proficiency, you get all the shield proficiencies too. Just check the rules on humanoid type.

Also, I am pretty sure Karsites have to be human per RAW. However, it wouldn't break anything to modify that, really.

[Fyermind]

Changelings have human heritage...

[Psyren]

Karsites have the Human subtype - this lets them qualify for human-only feats, PrCs and effects, per the sidebar on RoD 150.

[Xuldarinar]

When combined with Dragonfire Adept class, they make fantastic tanks, due to the class needing everything the race is granting. Medium armor and martial weapons are awesome when your class doesn't grant them, and you need to be 30' away or less from enemies. Con focus is also good, and you Cha bonus will be handy too, especially if you plan to abuse the humanoid shape invocation. And while DR/magic is a little lame, at least you have it at low levels when it means something.

Additionally, because you are humanoid type and have a listed racial armor proficiency, you get all the shield proficiencies too. Just check the rules on humanoid type.


That is amazing. I cannot believe that didn't occur to me. hanks.



Also, I am pretty sure Karsites have to be human per RAW. However, it wouldn't break anything to modify that, really.

Well… the standard karsite is human. On page 84 of the Tome of Magic however, it says: "If humans aren't prevalent in your campaign (or if including sub race of humans doesn't appeal to you), consider giving karsite abilities to half-elves or half-orcs, or even an elf or orc who has a half-elf or half-orc (and thus a karus-blooded human) in his family tree."

I agree that it wouldn't hurt to modify, and it seems the Tome of Magic agrees. Granted, the wording is more towards DM decision, but it says one can do something.


Changelings have human heritage...

Hmm, so a karsite changeling could exist. That could be interesting.

There could also be karsite aasimar, karsite tiefling, (karsite pharin), ect.


Karsites have the Human subtype - this lets them qualify for human-only feats, PrCs and effects, per the sidebar on RoD 150.

That they do, they also get the human's bonus feat and bonus skill points. All of this comes in handy.



Karsite Azurin could exist..

[Psyren]

Medium Armor and Shield proficiency could be quite useful on a Karsite Psion or Erudite.

[Xuldarinar]

Medium Armor and Shield proficiency could be quite useful on a Karsite Psion or Erudite.

Yes, I think so too. No such thing as Psionic Power Failure when it comes to armor, so there isn't really a reason they wouldn't use armor anyways if they are proficient.

[Raendyn]

To those unfamiliar, karsites are humans (half elves.. half orc.. occasionally orcs and elves with human blood.. ect.) descended of Karsus. Bonuses to constitution and charisma, damage reduction, spell resistance, melee attacks can drain magic, healing when spells fail against them, inability to cast arcane or divine spells, proficiency with up to medium armor and martial weapon, an LA of +2, and they keep their human traits (arguably this is replaced by the traits of what ever other race you have the karsite born to.)

Now, the question. Can anyone think of any good applications for this race?

Wasnt he a human nethereese wizard that tried to absorb weave and got petrified cause he couldnt control the energy? why would anyone get bonuses for being his kid or other kind of descendant?
No important or great human ever made his kids supermen just cause he ...well, had kids..

I rly find this race funny...

[Zanos]

Wasnt he a human nethereese wizard that tried to absorb weave and got petrified cause he couldnt control the energy? why would anyone get bonuses for being his kid or other kind of descendant?
No important or great human ever made his kids supermen just cause he ...well, had kids..

I rly find this race funny...
Karsus attempted to temporarily usurp the mantle of Mystra in order to save Netheril form the magic/life drain spells of the Phaedrim. He techincally succeeded, but couldn't control the power of the weave, resulting in the failure of all arcane magic, causing Netheril's floating cities to fall and a bunch of other assorted nastiness. He was probably the most powerful mortal spellcaster to ever live, but the fact that he caused all arcane magic in the realms to fail most likely cursed/blessed his bloodline, resulting in Karsites.

[Xuldarinar]

Wasnt he a human nethereese wizard that tried to absorb weave and got petrified cause he couldnt control the energy? why would anyone get bonuses for being his kid or other kind of descendant?
No important or great human ever made his kids supermen just cause he ...well, had kids..

I rly find this race funny...

It is magic.

…Thats all I got. Maybe arcane and divine magic are both alive and they hold a grudge, I don't know. Judging from his vestige, the feelings are mutual.

Edit:

Karsus attempted to temporarily usurp the mantle of Mystra in order to save Netheril form the magic/life drain spells of the Phaedrim. He techincally succeeded, but couldn't control the power of the weave, resulting in the failure of all arcane magic, causing Netheril's floating cities to fall and a bunch of other assorted nastiness. He was probably the most powerful mortal spellcaster to ever live, but the fact that he caused all arcane magic in the realms to fail most likely cursed/blessed his bloodline, resulting in Karsites.

…What Zanos said.

[Raendyn]

I know the story, I own Magic of Faerun, I just find it stupid.

Posibilities are enough to explain why it happened, and what you both said are quite posiible, but it still gives me the feeling of "We got out of ideas here in WotC, so lets do something stupid with FR lore"... it has happened before and will happened again...

Also, sry for the mess I created, cause it doesnt contribute to the thread.

[Psyren]

Wasnt he a human nethereese wizard that tried to absorb weave and got petrified cause he couldnt control the energy? why would anyone get bonuses for being his kid or other kind of descendant?

Basically, he seeded all those descendants while he was the ultimate archmage, but before his coup attempt. The karsite entry mentions that he had many concubines and slaves.