Why is Wu Jen a INtresting choice for Gish?

[CyberThread]

Hola Everyone!


Question, I notice some threads bring it up, but why is wu jen a interesting choice for a gish?

[Psyren]

These are the reasons I see most often:

- They have some cool and unique spells on their list that require attack rolls (e.g. decapitating scarf.)
- They have unique buffs that are handy with a strong melee character (e.g. Body Outside Body, Giant Size.)
- Wuxia/kung-fu flavor.
- Combined with Tome of Battle in particular (i.e. Jade Phoenix Mage) they gain access to the Emerald Immolation + Transcend Mortality combo that lets them become invulnerable, kill themselves, and return to life with no level loss. (And "Jade Phoenix Mage" also sounds eastern/wuxia/kung-fu-ish.)

[Big Fau]

Giant Size and Transcend Mortality (+Revivify). Also a lot of their spells are odd buffs that are really nice, like Fist of Stone (+6 Str bonus from a 1st level spell).

[DarkSonic1337]

Because Wu Jen has some neat Wu Jen only spells, mostly at higher levels.

Giant Size can make you COLOSSAL! And Body outside Body makes a lot of....well you. The only thing the clones explicitly can't do is cast pells or use any spell completion or spell trigger items. Other than that you really can make an army of just you.(maneuvers, arcane strike, generic melee combos, go nuts)

Ice Knife is a cool low level spell, and Lightning blade just SCREAMS gish spell (seriously, you can slash with it OR shoot it, with damage split how you wish?)

Creeping Darkness is....well it's A LOT of debuff, with the only issue being how to make the enemy stay in it. Pain's another cool debuff. And poison needles? Paralyze for 2D6 MINUTES?

Decapitating Scarf is save or die that's technically not a death effect. Bad if the enemy doesn't need a head to live though

Arboreal Transformation. You turn your opponent into a living tree that obeys you 0_o and then just turns into a normal tree at the end of the duration. On a failed save they're still slowed for the duration. It's DAYS/level

Transcend Mortality. Well if you can find a good method of resurrection after being disintegrated at the end of the duration, this spell has a lot of cool stuff
Damage reduction 30/epic.
Spell resistance equal to 21 + you caster level.
Acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic resistance 50.
Immunity to ability damage, disease, energy drain, poison, and death effects.
+10 enhancement bonus on all saving throws.
You do not need to eat, drink, or breathe.

As an immediate action 0_o


So all in all the Wu Jen list has a few goodies, and they share a good amount of staples with the Wiz/Sorc list anyway, so it's an interesting choice for your casting progression.

[Khedrac]

The drawback is that the wu-jen don't get any decent personal protection spells - like mage armour and shield.
(The get a couple that are short duration and fairly pointless for what they offer.)

This gives the other side of "interesting" - how to survive as a gish to use the fun melee spells they get.

Actually I think wu-jen should work better as a gish because they have a lot of melee range spells, and thus need the other half of the gish to give them some way to survive in melee while cating them!

[Person_Man]

They also have an easier time raising their caster level (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872350/Raising_Caster_Level).

[Marlowe]

Giant Size and Transcend Mortality (+Revivify). Also a lot of their spells are odd buffs that are really nice, like Fist of Stone (+6 Str bonus from a 1st level spell).

Except Fist of Stone isn't a Wu Jen spell.

EDIT:Whoops, but Shield is. Formatting of the Wu Jen spell list is rather confusing.

We once had a player who maxed his strength as a Wu Jen and went charging into combat. Did not work. But that'd because he thought that a mediocre DEX, CON 7, and d4 hit dice weren't going to be a problem in melee. Plus, what he didn't know about playing a spellcaster was essentially everything that's ever been said or written about playing a spellcaster.

[Chronos]

The drawback is that the wu-jen don't get any decent personal protection spells - like mage armour and shield.
They do if you use Book of Exalted Deeds. All prepared spellcasters have access to sanctified spells like Greater Luminous Armor.

[Segev]

Body outside Body makes a lot of....well you. The only thing the clones explicitly can't do is cast pells or use any spell completion or spell trigger items. Other than that you really can make an army of just you.(maneuvers, arcane strike, generic melee combos, go nuts)

This makes a Wu Jen Cerebromancer fairly terrifying, as well, because it doesn't prevent full psionic manifestation. Schsim on steroids.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Don't they get a "if you want you can add some spells from this book" sidebar in the SC? That can give them some versatility I guess, their main "weakness" is the lack of support in splats (I think they get some extra stuff in CMag, but that's it)

[Vaz]

Yup.

@Segev; it makes Spell to Power Erudite even more terrifying.

[Segev]

Yup.

@Segev; it makes Spell to Power Erudite even more terrifying.

Spell-to-Power Erudite just strikes me as a horrible idea all around, from every perspective except one that might try to call it "too weak."

[Vaz]

They also have an easier time raising their caster level (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872350/Raising_Caster_Level).

+3 from unique Wu Jen only? They have the same lack of UMD as a Wizard, so that doesn't really make a difference. (And they can use a Spellstave to get the relevant spell). Wizard with Cha 16 and maxed UMD has a check of 16, +2 from a Circumstance item for 18, 25% chance to activate anything for the +4 from a Prayer Bead.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Can someone please cross-post the CL thing? Wizard is blocked by the school :smallannoyed:

[Vaz]

Rod of Elemental Might +2 - 9,600 CM 1 element, wu jen only
Wu Jen 6 +2 - 1 element CA


Those are the only relevant Wu Jen Uniques. +2 from a Wu Jen Class level, and a +1 unique item. A 10K item (IIRC) and a slightly optimized UMD check gets you 3/4 of the way there (and that's not including a +10 UMD competence item).

[CyberThread]

So basically anything you would have a wizard gish do, you would have a wu jen do, nothing unique as far as entry or prc choices?

[Metahuman1]

The drawback is that the wu-jen don't get any decent personal protection spells - like mage armour and shield.
(The get a couple that are short duration and fairly pointless for what they offer.)

I though they got Alter Self, Displacement, Mirror Image and Blur?

I KNOW they got shield and a couple of spells to grand DR an Nat Armor (Hey, an item of what ever that SC spell that turns nat armor into a deflection bonus and your home. )

[DarkSonic1337]

Not really Cyber Drag. It's a base class that's basically a Wizard with a different flavor (and far less expansive) spell list.

The spell list is still GOOD and I mentioned some of the nice unique ones (and others have mentioned some possible builds around them), but for the most part just treat them like more manageable Wizards